Thoughts on Suspiria

[JDFP]

Okay, I just finished watching this for the first time in many, many years and the first thought I had was: "What the hell?".

I generally really dig Argento ("Do You Like Hitchcock?" is my favorite he did), but other than enjoying the WAY over-the-top soundtrack by Goblin with intense foreboding (ooh! Girls in a swimming pool swimming! Queue incredibly dramatic music!) that caused me to hum along with it, the film just didn't really make a hell of a lot of sense to me.

Okay, so the academy is run by a group of witches that has as their "Black Queen" (The Mother of Sighs) a several hundred year old woman who has the ability to appear invisible and bring dead girls back to life to attempt to kill the American dancer. Right. Makes sense. The witches have been poisoning the girl's food and the head of the dance academy (Joan Bennett, who was the one really shining acting point to this film with all the other amateurs in this) wants her dead. At no point in the film (at least not that I could make out) does it explain why they hate her like they do (this was pre-Bush, so just being an American wasn't necessarily a black mark on you in Europe).

Let's throw in a couple of brutal murders for the fun of it though I don't see any cohesive point to the deaths of the people who died. We have the girl at the beginning who finds out where the witches lair is located in the academy ("It's the blue Iris!") who is murdered. Why? I guess the witches were afraid that the girl would go to the "New York Times" like Robert Redford in "Three Days of the Condor" and expose them.

Then we have the blind guy who looks like Adrien Brody's (who is in Argento's upcoming film "Giallo" by the way) brother who is killed by his seeing-eye-dog by having his throat ripped off by the dog. Right. Why? Well we needed a cool death scene I suppose, the purpose in the witches killing him doesn't make any sense to me really.

Finally, we have another girl who is killed because she is a dumb ass (in addition to finding out that the teachers are witches). The girl is attempting to escape from a killer with a knife (who was this killer by the way? The Romanian guy with the fresh set of teeth? And if they were witches and had the ability to make a dog rip out the blind guy's throat why did they need him to kill for them anyway?) she jumps into wires in a room and gets tangled up in them (eh, it's dark, maybe she didn't see them, in her defense) til the killer finds her and cuts her throat.

Yes, the film was visually beautiful. Argento is incredible when it comes to capturing Italy and the architecture/culture. But, when it was over I was left scratching my head thinking: "Huh?". I don't really understand the motives of the witches in this film, what were they after? Why did they hate the American girl? Why did they kill the blind guy exactly? According to wikipedia (because it never lies): "Daniel the pianist is killed on his way home when his dog becomes spooked and tears his throat out." Really? It's common for seeing-eye-dogs to bite the throat out on their master when they become spooked? :shifty:

I will say that Olga (Barbara Magnolfi) was pretty damn hot. I wouldn't have minded having more (much more, ahem) of her in the film. Wow! I just read this film is still banned in Germany! And to think the "torturous murder scene" of the girl in the beginning would probably get a PG-13 rating today (according to wikipedia again).

Anyway, I just don't get the appeal of this film. There doesn't seem to really be a purpose/reason behind the motives/actions of the people and really no design to it. Yeah, it's pretty, but the story is weak and it just wasn't my cup of tea I suppose. To each their own and all that jazz, but I was really hoping for much more.

j.p.

[Mr.G]

I don't get the appeal of Suspiria or Deep Red....in general, I'm not a huge Argento fan. I'm not saying he isn't a quality director, but his films bore me.

[fulci fan]

:rockbrow:....... eeehhh, never mind..... :rolleyes:

[DjfunkmasterG]

like the stuff he produces better than the stuff he directs.

Like DEMONS :p

[JDFP]

like the stuff he produces better than the stuff he directs.

Like DEMONS :p

I concur, good sir. Bava's masterpiece of film-making. Incredible film.

As far as Suspiria? Not so much. Good soundtrack (not great) but just not a good film.

j.p.

[krakenslayer]

Suspiria is one of my favourite horror films of all time. I can understand where you're coming from JDPF, but disliking a film like Suspiria based on the lack of realistic logic is like disliking Mozart based on the lack of a drum beat.

Suspiria is Argento's attempt to capture the sense of a fevered nightmare on film, and you wouldn't expect a nightmare to have more than the loosest of narratives.

[fulci fan]

Suspiria is one of my favourite horror films of all time. I can understand where you're coming from JDPF, but disliking a film like Suspiria based on the lack of realistic logic is like disliking Mozart based on the lack of a drum beat.

:lol:

I think alot of Italian horror films strive for that nightmarish quality.

If you guys want a logical story, watch a giallo.

The story makes perfect sense to me, though. I really don't understand why you guys are so confused. The plot is pretty straight forward :rockbrow:

[DjfunkmasterG]

I don't think horror cinema from italy understands the concept of conventional story telling... plus they seem to subscribe to the mind set i joke about....

"FUCK IT, WILL FIX IT IN POST!"

[bassman]

"FUCK IT, WILL FIX IT IN POST!"

It worked for Sergio Leoni...

I haven't seen Suspiria since I was a kid. Might have to look out for it. Maybe Youtube can save me the trouble...

[JDFP]

:lol:

If you guys want a logical story, watch a giallo.

The story makes perfect sense to me, though. I really don't understand why you guys are so confused. The plot is pretty straight forward :rockbrow:

I enjoy Argento's giallo films. "Do You Like Hitchcock?" is an incredible film that I highly enjoy. So, I definitely appreciate and value Argento's films for their ability to tell a good story and have that amazing Italiano atmosphere/visuals that he is able to present. I don't dislike his films... I just disliked Suspiria for the reasons I pointed out.

As far as the story making perfect sense... sure, if you're stoned out of your mind or drunk off your rocker I could imagine the film making perfect sense (Maybe you were drunk when you watched it, Fulcifan?) There are some films that are intended to be watched like this (such as Pink Floyd's "The Wall"), so in that context I suppose it would make 'sense'. I don't have any issue with the general backbone of the story (witches in a dance academy) but rather the presentation of it and the non-logic of things happening for no apparent reason or motive.

For some of us, we prefer stories that have a consistent flow with some degree of logic that do not attempt to stretch the veil of 'possible' too thin into "What???" territory. :cool:

j.p.

[krakenslayer]

I enjoy Argento's giallo films. "Do You Like Hitchcock?" is an incredible film that I highly enjoy. So, I definitely appreciate and value Argento's films for their ability to tell a good story and have that amazing Italiano atmosphere/visuals that he is able to present. I don't dislike his films... I just disliked Suspiria for the reasons I pointed out.

As far as the story making perfect sense... sure, if you're stoned out of your mind or drunk off your rocker I could imagine the film making perfect sense (Maybe you were drunk when you watched it, Fulcifan?) There are some films that are intended to be watched like this (such as Pink Floyd's "The Wall"), so in that context I suppose it would make 'sense'. I don't have any issue with the general backbone of the story (witches in a dance academy) but rather the presentation of it and the non-logic of things happening for no apparent reason or motive.

For some of us, we prefer stories that have a consistent flow with some degree of logic that do not attempt to stretch the veil of 'possible' too thin into "What???" territory. :cool:

j.p.

That's fine, personal taste is everything. I'm not saying you're stupid for not liking Supiria, or anything like that. I just think you're approaching it from a different perspective to me. The film is not trying to "stretch the veil of 'possible'" because, unlike conventional cinema, it is not trying to immerse you in a realistic storyline or emulate reality in any way: it's bizarre, fantastical, unreal, and it is supposed to be; you're supposed to revel in the atmosphere of dreamlike unreality, not its plot.

Look, if this a regular film, trying to emaulate reality:
http://www.irishviews.com/moonlight-ireland4.jpg

Then this is Supiria, focusing instead on the impressions and atmosphere of the same subject:
http://huglou.com/catalogue/Additional_Info/images2/751px-VanGogh-starry_night_ballance1.jpg

[JDFP]

That's fine, personal taste is everything. I'm not saying you're stupid for not liking Supiria, or anything like that. I just think you're approaching it from a different perspective to me. The film is not trying to "stretch the veil of 'possible'" because, unlike conventional cinema, it is not trying to immerse you in a realistic storyline or emulate reality in any way: it's bizarre, fantastical, unreal, and it is supposed to be; you're supposed to revel in the atmosphere of dreamlike unreality, not its plot.



Hey Kraken, makes perfect sense, and I agree and understand what you're saying. I can definitely see how "Suspiria" could be watched from this perspective and really enjoyed/appreciated, so I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I guess I've just been so Americanized/driven by narrative flow and style that it's hard for me to get over my pre-suppositions to enjoy a different type of film. :cool:

I guess it also explains why I've always disliked expressionist art in valuing "Realism" much more as being something I can look at that looks real instead of just a bunch of Pollock blurs and blips that seem like vomiting on canvass to me. :D

j.p.

[DjfunkmasterG]

It worked for Sergio Leoni...

Good observation, and we all know he is the god of spaghetti westerns. :D

[Purge]

I rented Suspiria for the first time some years back after reading rave reviews of it, and my initial reaction was, "Were the critics high?" I saw it a second time on Cinemax a few years later and it was like a whole new movie--great soundtrack and great cinematography. Granted, many of Argento's films are about fifteen minutes too long and are sometimes lacking in plot, but the man's skill can't be denied. The "peephole" scene from Opera is incredible.

[jded]

Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeod! It's been so long since I posted here. I see not much has changed. Still feels like home. Good to see there's a new competition.

This thread caught my attention so I figured I'd start here after my long hiatus.

Well JDFP I got to say I agree with you overall that most of the films reason is overshadowed by atmosphere. It's either on purpose to instill a dreamlike impression for the viewer of which might have played second fiddle to a strong story had there been a strong story. The other may be, why the need for resolve when you have shock value as the main attraction? Don't you just love the maggots?

At the moment I have one answer to your "blind guy killed by seeing eye dog" question. If you go back you'll see that he was interrupted during his piano playing scene for the girls, and was held responsible for the little boy being bitten by his dog. I'd say his death was how the witches took revenge for hurting one of their kind.

[wayzim]

It worked for Sergio Leoni...

I haven't seen Suspiria since I was a kid. Might have to look out for it. Maybe Youtube can save me the trouble...

I remember Suspiria fondly as a stylish hell of a good ride, Deep Red by reputation alone; but I don't recall ever actually seeing it. Recently cable has been showing the Final(?) entry in the Mothers series (They were the 3 mothers, right? )called Mother of Tears(2007 ) with Asia Argento.
The film starts with an accidental blood letting awakening an ancient evil( man, I hate those things. )which rampages through Rome like a plague, turning most of the population into maniacs.
In the meantime, Asia runs from person to person, hoping to find someone wh hasn't been subverted, until one of the most amazingly bizzare finales I'd seen in some time.
Italian cinema is strange, but then again, that's the rep since I watched Brava and Fellini films as a youngn. Makes me hanker for Barbara Steele in The Beast( even with the hairy makeup on )
(Saturday afternoons during the 70's & 80's. Dr. Shock on channel 48 in Philadelphia )

Wayne Z
"This ain't no 'Fright Flick or 'Creature Double Feature, Babe! "
Dead Fall; Foreshadow

[DubiousComforts]

Okay, I just finished watching this for the first time in many, many years and the first thought I had was: "What the hell?".

Whatever you do, don't watch INFERNO!

[DubiousComforts]

Deep Red by reputation alone; but I don't recall ever actually seeing it.
My GOD, man, what is wrong with everyone?!