Pantera or Slayer?

[_liam_]

"reign in blood - so heavy it made kerry king's hair fall out"
nevertheless, i think it's overrated. pantera all the way for me.

been thinking about pantera recently cos it's nearly 2 years since dimebag was shot :( never saw them live :dead:

any other tinnitus sufferers care to specify?

[MikePizzoff]

I put Slayer far ahead of Pantera on my list.

In fact, I barely even like most Pantera. Too redneck for me. Although, I think "Power Metal" was a killer album. What really pisses me off about 90% of Pantera fans is if you ask them to name any of the first four albums, they're most likely to say any of the following: Cowboys From Hell; Great Southern Trendkill; Vulgar Display Of Power; Far Beyond Driven. :mad:

Anyway, back to Slayer, I love "Reign In Blood" but I don't think it's their best; "Show No Mercy" is. :evil:


OFF TOPIC: Do you listen to VIO-LENCE at all? If so: I just got their documentary and I highly recommend picking it up. It's so good that I watched it three times in one day. I've never done that with anything!

[_liam_]

lol well, not so into glam/power metal myself but it is annoying how pantera revisionists dont count the pre-anselmo stuff. but how can you not like "domination?".

was always put off vio-lence cos i never liked machinehead at all, but through the wonders of technology there's no reason not to give it a whirl.

i'll say this about slayer though, they kept it real. someone once said they were the only rock band that got scarier as they got older. they never put out a "st anger"(or even a "black album").

[MikePizzoff]

lol well, not so into glam/power metal myself but it is annoying how pantera revisionists dont count the pre-anselmo stuff. but how can you not like "domination?".

was always put off vio-lence cos i never liked machinehead at all, but through the wonders of technology there's no reason not to give it a whirl.

i'll say this about slayer though, they kept it real. someone once said they were the only rock band that got scarier as they got older. they never put out a "st anger"(or even a "black album").

I'm not saying the Pantera fans don't count the early albums... I'm saying most of them are ignorant; they don't even know those albums exist!

I can't stand Machine Head, either. But Vio-Lence was really awesome. One of the best Bay Area thrash bands.

Yes, Slayer never did sell out. They've put out many albums I wasn't that into but I still appreciated them because, like you said, they sure weren't any kind of "Black Album".

[capncnut]

saw both live... both kicked ass...

Me too. Slayer kick ass but Pantera hits the spot for me. I must've played Far Beyond Driven a million times!

R.I.P. Dimebag. :(

[LouCipherr]

Pantera's first four discs:

Metal Magic
Projects in the Jungle
I Am The Night
Power Metal

As far as I'm concerned - and this is IMHO - Pantera stomps all over Slayer. There is one thing that Pantera had that slayer does not: groove. Pantera had riffs that grooved - slayer just has 100mph riffs that tear your face off. While there's nothing wrong with that, it's just not my cup of tea most of the time. ;) I have to be in the mood to listen to Slayer. Pantera was 'anytime' music for me. :D

There's not one album I can think of that could ever top Vulgar Display of Power as far as metal from the 90's is concerned.

Not to mention, Dimebag was one of the best metal guitarists on the freakin' planet and the nicest human in the world to boot. Their success never went to his head. I wish all rock stars were like that.

[Fulcifan91]

Not to mention, Dimebag was one of the best metal guitarists on the freakin' planet.

Next to Brian Wright of course?:D

[coma]

I like both. South Of Heaven is My favorite Slayer and theres tons of grooves on that one. Though they are all sick. Alot of it sounds like one song but it's a good song.
I think Pantera has really sh***y drum sounds. almost as bad a Yngwire Malmsteen. Vinnie Paul is great and live they were sick, but those drum tones are dookie. Their songs are , as a whole, better and more diverse.
And Poor ol' Darrell. We hardly knew ya.:(

Slayer, I followed from the beginning of thrash, so They are my favorite. Smokin Diesel in the graveyard feeling totally insane and not giving a crap about anything. It was like a secret club of evil music. Back when you could be proud to wear a metallica shirt
"they suck, thats just noise"
"Up yer ass, fruitpie!"

I saw Slayer the first time In 1986, I think, at a tiny little dumpy club and it blew my brains out. It was wierd, the music was harsh as hell but everybody was so damn happy.
I saw Metallica and Motorhead there like a week later.

I hated Glam and makeup bands with a huge passion. Ugh. Thats all that was around back then.

That was the soundtrack to my wasted and unproductive criminalistic years.

[MikePizzoff]

pantera had glam-ish roots, slayer didn't


Incorrect. They were both heavily influenced by the glam scene.

Take a look at what Slayer looked like on Show No Mercy; they hadn't taken off the make-up yet. If you read interviews with bands from the Bay Area back then and they bring up Slayer, they'll tell you that Slayer was pretty much just a glam band in love with Priest until they heard Metallica.

PS - Speaking of Priest: can't wait for the new album/upcoming tour!!!

EDIT: I realized that made it look like I was calling Priest a glam band. I sure as hell was NOT.

[Danny]

im gonna say slayer, just becuase of reign in blood:cool:

[Minerva_Zombi]

I LOVE them both, But I gotta lean towards Pantera

[Eyebiter]

Slayer's cover of In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida.

[7feet]

SLAAAAAAYA!

Love 'em, but damn if their shows aren't the most brutal. Them Slayer shows will leave you with permanent bruises, no doubt. I like a lot of Pateras's catalogue, but I never got that same "punched in the nuts" feel I find from Slayer. Is that supposed to be a good thing? I dunno, but I think they both have adequate balls. But to reiterate...

SLAAAAAAYA!

[LouCipherr]

Next to Brian Wright of course?:D

Well, that guy kicks ass too, but Dime takes the cake on this one. :lol:

[_liam_]

slayer are disgustingly indulgent & excellent live. i swear "angel of death" was over in about 30 seconds, they played it so fast.

i was at a 2005 donnington performance, which kerry king listed as being one of the most brutal crowds he'd ever seen :evil:

twere a good year that year, slayer, anthrax, black sabbath (original lineup), megadeth, system of a down, motorhead, slipknot (always good for a laugh) chimaira, lamb of god, mastodon, mc5, in flames. one of the sickest lineups ever.

know what you mean about pantera's drums, they sometimes sound a little rattley and tinny(apart from trendkill & 101), but i seem to remember early slayer havin cardboard box drumming? or was that venom?

[coma]

slayer are disgustingly indulgent & excellent live. i swear "angel of death" was over in about 30 seconds, they played it so fast.

i was at a 2005 donnington performance, which kerry king listed as being one of the most brutal crowds he'd ever seen :evil:

twere a good year that year, slayer, anthrax, black sabbath (original lineup), megadeth, system of a down, motorhead, slipknot (always good for a laugh) chimaira, lamb of god, mastodon, mc5, in flames. one of the sickest lineups ever.

know what you mean about pantera's drums, they sometimes sound a little rattley and tinny(apart from trendkill & 101), but i seem to remember early slayer havin cardboard box drumming? or was that venom?

MC5?!?! 2 of the principals are dead. Was that any good?

I love Anthrax's Among the Living. That is one of the best Metal records ever. Joey Belladonna was one of the better castratos.
Slipknot are lamo live in my opinion.
Sabbath reunited are suprisingly excellent. SAw em 3 times. I loves me some Sabbath.
SOTD are technically over the top but still fully balls out. Never saw em.

Sounds like a great lineup to me, other than the overrated and generic SlipKnot. (sorry slipknot fanss, just my opinion).

Pantera's Major label records drum tones totally ape the 80s/And Justice for all over gated drum sound. Dated already when they used it and totally unnatural.
I thought Slayers Drums always sounded good. The early stuff was garagey, but they were a full on Garage Lo budget production at first. I think Paul whatever his name is (original drummer), was one of the main attractions of Slayer.
Metallicas best Drum sounds are Garage Days revisited Vinyl edition. Thats just super natural and monstorous.

And Venom? They pretty much sucked. When you hear them now they are ridiculous. And Raven too. But they used to be "Evil".:)

[_liam_]

nah black metal by venom always has a place in my heart, as spinal tap as it might be. plus it paved the way for black metal (mayhem, emperor, old cradle of filth, akercocke), and i'm the kinda moron that loves that trash :D

mc5 was interesting, they got a bunch of people in and out to fill in for the various, erm, "absentees", including getting lemmy from motorhead on for a rendition of "louie louie" i was v drunk, tbh i dont remember much of that particular one.

i think system of a down were the only decent new mainstream metal (as in contemporary not nu metal) band in years, for the first two albums at least, isaw them open for metallica at reading fest '03 (System sung the "DIE! DIE!" bits in "creeping death" later on), and they were absolutely incredible, only had two albums at that point so a very tight and entertaining set.

albums after that kinda went downhill, heard there was a lot of friction within the band, the last time i saw them they dragged "sugar" out to about 7 minutes, with vocorders and synthesisers...sorry, but nah. they've indefinitely split up now.

slipknot are rubbish on record, i loved the demo but hated the albums that followed it, but yknow, waiting for motorhead to come on, there are worse ways to kill time than watching 9 goons in masks beating each other up, with some decent pyro. i know everyone says this but they have a fair old drummer there (who now plays with ministry as i understand it).

saw metallica earlier this year, as annoying as they have become, they did play all of the master of puppets LP in one go, followed by a misfits cover, so they're back in my good books for that. and that suicidal tendencies/ozzy dude they on bass now (trujillo?) pulled off "orion" admirably.

[capncnut]

Stryper! Stryper! Stryper! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[coma]

To hell with the Devil, yo!

[_liam_]

lol stryper...MOSH FOR JESUS. didn't they all wear yellow or something?

it's all about P.O.D these days on the xtian metal front.

i think the only decent christian metal bands were the fiercely catholic sepultura and it's slightly rubbish spinoff soulfly.

[Deadman_Deluxe]

I toured with both these bands ... ****in good times ... but i ALWAYS preferred the mighty SLAYER when i was a kid ... still do to this day ;)

South of Heaven ... great album.

Sad about the dimebag, really sucks ... a friend of mine from Shadows Fall who was at that gig took THE last photo of him on his cell phone, literally about 3 seconds before he was first shot ... stonking hot rock pose picture, but not so good times.

Pantera also pulled the TATTOO THE PLANET tour in 2001 (along with STATIC X) as they had lost friends in the WTC and the tour was supposed to start on the 12th sept ... crazy times, but the tour went ahead with SLAYER headlining just about 10 days later.

Bit of a depressing mood overall, but livened up no end when the BIOHAZARD boys turned up :D




i think the only decent christian metal bands were the fiercely catholic sepultura and it's slightly rubbish spinoff soulfly.


WTF? Sepultura are a christian metal band? Where's your head at?

And for what it's worth ... none of them are "fiercely catholic" ... and soulfly are a LONG way from being a "rubbish spinoff".

[MikePizzoff]

I think Paul whatever his name is (original drummer), was one of the main attractions of Slayer.

Dave Lombardo is the original drummer. When he left in the early 90's, Paul Bastoph (also in Testament, Forbidden, Exodus) came in for him. Dave Lombardo has been back for about 5 years now, though.

[Deadman_Deluxe]

Dave Lombardo is the original drummer. When he left in the early 90's, Paul Bastoph (also in Testament, Forbidden, Exodus) came in for him. Dave Lombardo has been back for about 5 years now, though.

I have some "priceless" camcorder footage from my tour diarys with a slightly drunken Paul trying, and failing, to eat 120 spring onions in less than 90 seconds, with no drinks ... for 5.00GBP :lol:

That was the night BEFORE he damaged his leg playing football with us inside birmingham NEC just after the load in ... and that was the injury which ultimately caused him to quit/leave SLAYER ...

[_liam_]

wha eh? well i didn't mean christian metal as such, rather a metal band who have christian beliefs, my bad though, but i was always told that max & sepultura were all catholics! max did go on this big blag in an mag over here about catholicism saving his life or something.

dunno, i always thought soulfly were a muted version of sepultura, too much of that downtuned, formless riffing, although i recently bought "dark ages" and it's a lot more thrashy, a step in the right direction.

you toured with slayer and pantera?! what was your band called???

also - was phil really a neo nazi?

[MikePizzoff]

wha eh? well i didn't mean christian metal as such, rather a metal band who have christian beliefs, my bad though, but i was always told that max & sepultura were all catholics! max did go on this big blag in an mag over here about catholicism saving his life or something.

dunno, i always thought soulfly were a muted version of sepultura, too much of that downtuned, formless riffing, although i recently bought "dark ages" and it's a lot more thrashy, a step in the right direction.

you toured with slayer and pantera?! what was your band called???

also - was phil really a neo nazi?

Max may have becamse a born-again-Christian, I don't know. But I do know that early (good/great/amazing!) Sepultura is faaar from it. Their first two albums were Satanic. After that, their views turned more toward being against any sort of "popular" religions (along with a huge political stance).

I agree with you: I think Soulfly sucks a big one.

As for Phil Anselmo: I think he's probably got racist tendencies; along with the rest of the band. I mean, for cryin out loud... Darryl, Vinnie Paul, and Rex were all in David Allen Coe's band. D.A.C. is wellknown for having put out a few racist albums in the past.

[_liam_]

heh, call me a cheese merchant but i loved that DAC/CFH "rebel meets rebel" album...

[LouCipherr]

heh, call me a cheese merchant but i loved that DAC/CFH "rebel meets rebel" album...

That was an awesome record, as was DAC's underground records. :elol:

Oh, and I also wanted to add that although I like Pantera more than Slayer, it must be stated that Dave Lombardo is one of the best drummers on the planet.

I swear, sometimes I think he must have an extra set of arms and feet or something. Hmmmm...

[_liam_]

lombardo replaced lars ulrich for a UK metallica show at a festival in 2004. i am eternally gutted i didn't make it - it was also dimebag's last UK show, and the last iron maiden concert i stood a chance in hell of getting tickets for.

[MikePizzoff]

Oh, and I also wanted to add that although I like Pantera more than Slayer, it must be stated that Dave Lombardo is one of the best drummers on the planet.


Hmmm... as far as metal goes I feel there are far more superior drummers. Lombardo is damn good, but he doesn't do anything that will make my jaw drop.

Listen to Richard Christy's insanely precise, almost-mechanical, drumming on DEATH's final album "The Sound Of Perserverence". Within the first 10 seconds (which is drums alone) you know you're in for a treat.

Check out Pete Sandoval on the classic "World Downfall" by Terrorizer. Talk about insanely fast fills! At this point in time he held the record (really) for being the fastest drummer on earth. Also listen to him on "Alters Of Madness" by Morbid Angel; those beats and fills he does on that album are simply amazing!

There are plenty more drummers but if you check out these two you'll get the jist of what I mean.

Hell, I happen to have a few songs by both dudes ripped on my computer... if you feel like IMing me, I'll send them to you. PM me.

[coma]

Hmmm... as far as metal goes I feel there are far more superior drummers. Lombardo is damn good, but he doesn't do anything that will make my jaw drop.

Listen to Richard Christy's insanely precise, almost-mechanical, drumming on DEATH's final album "The Sound Of Perserverence". Within the first 10 seconds (which is drums alone) you know you're in for a treat.

Check out Pete Sandoval on the classic "World Downfall" by Terrorizer. Talk about insanely fast fills! At this point in time he held the record (really) for being the fastest drummer on earth. Also listen to him on "Alters Of Madness" by Morbid Angel; those beats and fills he does on that album are simply amazing!

There are plenty more drummers but if you check out these two you'll get the jist of what I mean.

Hell, I happen to have a few songs by both dudes ripped on my computer... if you feel like IMing me, I'll send them to you. PM me.

Fast and mechanical do not make "great" (neccasarily).
Dave Lombardo (thanks for reminding me of the name) has feel , Chops, tone and Technical Expertise. Some are faster, some play more, but Dave Lomardos drumming was revolutionary. It's hard to see now how truly radical and stupiying Angel of Death was when it came out. There was literally nothing to compare it too. I

I will, however, check those records you mention.

No matter what guitar player you would mwntion is the late 80s some dick would always say "But Vinnie Vincent is faster, so ---- sucks!". I'm not kidding. It seems evern stupider now.

I am an unrepentent Slayer Fan with all the biases that includes:)

[_liam_]

is morbid angels drumming entirely organic & live?
the double bass on "dawn of the angry" sounds a bit too good...

[MikePizzoff]

is morbid angels drumming entirely organic & live?
the double bass on "dawn of the angry" sounds a bit too good...

The only Morbid Angel album I like is "Alters Of Madness" and that album was entirely natural; I'm not sure about the rest, though I'm assuming they're all the same. They just repressed the CD which includes a live DVD of them from that tour... his drumming is PERFECT (and faster) on the live video.

[_liam_]

altars of madness is the best, but dawn of the angry from "domination" is my favourite track of theirs.

*sigh* i remember hiding "covenant" from my parents as a wee one. happy days.

you ever heard "akercocke"? some people think it's total trash, but i love it. "horns of baphomet" kicks serious arse, imo. okay it's nothing revolutionary but YEAAARGHHHHHH :evil: all the same.

UK blackened death metal, a wee bit like posessed.

http://www.vinyltap.co.uk/gallery/ak/akercg6157785892073770.jpg

sharp bastards.

lol, although one of them is called "david gray"....unlucky.

[MikePizzoff]

I never listened to them because I always figured they'd be the stereotypical ****ty quiality no talent black metal that everyone raves over... but if you say they sound like Possessed I gotta hear this!!!

[_liam_]

a *wee* bit like possessed, a dash of slayer here and there. i like how, er.. "regal" it sounds in places. the singer alternates between a weird doglike growl, a demonic cackle and a spooky/cheesy priestlike warble. drumming a wee bit mad in places but nothing a fairly seasoned metaller wont have heard before.

it also has PRODUCTION, which is a dirty word in most "tr00 kvlt" black metal bollocks.

lol think i'm trying to say theyre still black metal so if you dont like that kinda thing, this prob wont convert you...

[MikePizzoff]

No, I like black metal if it's GOOD. I just hate all these bands that people listen to and worship but when you try to listen to their "album" you can't decipher the snare drum from the vocals because it sounds like one loud "KKKSSSSHHHHHH" of noise. [see the Mayhem demos that people pay rediculous amounts of money for]

I also can't stand the new "black metal" bands that use tons of synthasizers and orchestras and operatic singing (and sometimes blast beats that last for 4 minutes). When the fark did black metal turn into this wimpy shiv?!

[_liam_]

ah right, well this stuff is crisply produced in the band's own studio. multi instrumentalism, clean vocals, thrash metal riffs and the like co-exist peacefully with a lot of the staples of black metal.

know what you mean about the mayhem demos...i think they just don't want to admit that the most famous black metal band really only has one decent album (de mysteriis dom sathanas).


but aye, here's a terrible video but a good akercocke song(imho).

http://youtube.com/watch?v=IPWSiL_JyhA

[MikePizzoff]

That song ruled!!! That was possibly the best black/death (with a hint of progression) I've ever heard. I really like that they all wear suits and don't have dumb make-up on.

How the hell do you pronounce that name, though?

[_liam_]

akk-err-cock i think. glad you liked it

been following these blokes for a few years, that track is about 5 years old, from the "goat of mendes" album (the best imo). these days they still have the blastbeats and craziness going on, but theyre a lot more prog than the early stuff.

yeah i dig the suits thing too, the whole respectable dennis wheatley society satanist thing is a lot easier to take seriously than the viking kiss fan look!

they did a gig with morbid angel recently, which of course, i missed. bah.

oh yeah and right on about wimpy orchestral bollocks. see "Puritania" by dimmu borgir for an example of how that can suddenly screw up what was turning out to be a pretty killer track.

[MikePizzoff]

Well I'm glad to see there are fellow ragers on this board. Hopefully topics like this one come up more often.

[_liam_]

got a recommendation - a track called "rape of mankind" by "darkane". from the album rusted angel, which is a lil pricey to pick up (over here anyway) but worth it if you like a bit of thrash with maideny twin lead guitar bits and wretched screaming that's mysteriously easy on the ears.

couldnt find the track on youtube but here's another from that album...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq2ZmTP4om0
doesn't sound quite as meaty & echoey/well produced as it does on record but ah well...

[tju1973]

"reign in blood - so heavy it made kerry king's hair fall out"
nevertheless, i think it's overrated. pantera all the way for me.

been thinking about pantera recently cos it's nearly 2 years since dimebag was shot :( never saw them live :dead:

any other tinnitus sufferers care to specify?


Hey, don't get me wrong, being from North Texas, I saw Pan-FN-tera many times-- and they were great even before that punk *ss smck addic Anselmo came along, but Slayer = perfection.

Reign in Blood is just one of the perfect Slayer discs out-- as old and elder statesmen that they are, they have never gone "lite" (ala Metallica) and they keep the evil coming...

Just remeber that when you go to Hell, it is Slayer that will be playing in the background....

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

[capncnut]

Bette Midler was the greatest lead singer in metal history. She ROCKED in Twisted Sister! :D

[_liam_]

the perfect way to start your day...
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f92/_liam_/anselmos.jpg
:evil:

[MikePizzoff]

:lol: Every box turns ya into an a$$h0le junkie!

[_liam_]

hehehe...and if youre tired of thrash based cereal, why not round it off with teh downtuned wonders of...

http://www.tackytreasures.com/tackyhtml/tackyimages/mshocked.jpg