TWD 5x03 "Four Walls And A Roof" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN*

[MinionZombie]

Please keep all talk of episode 5x03 "Four Walls And A Roof" specifically inside this thread. If you have a theory for a following episode, please use the "spoiler tags" (visit the HPOTD FAQ to find out how to use them if you don't already know). Similarly, if you're going to discuss plot points from the comic book, please use "spoiler tags" - not everyone is up-to-date on them, and some people don't read them at all. Enjoy! “Rick and the group find themselves pitted against some very nasty people, but our group might just have a plan to gain the upper hand.” Directed by: Jeffrey F. January, Written by: Angela Kang & Corey Reed.

[MoonSylver]

Hurm. Interesting title & blurb. Should be fun to see what tonight brings!

[AcesandEights]

Well, that escalated quickly.

[sandrock74]

I love it when the bad guys are quickly (and harshly) dealt with!

[facestabber]

Abraham is a tough guy but there is no way I leave Rick Grimes side. Dude is a stone cold badass yet, as Bob alluded, is a good man. I'm glad Gareth begged first. And Ricks stare down eye fuck of Gareth the entire time in the church was epic and gave me the chills. Red handled machete for the win!!!!!!!!! Hey Gareth, you FUCKED with the wrong people. RIP Bob. I liked the character, sad to see him go

[MoonSylver]

Promise kept.

[Wyldwraith]

Such a rare thing, When characters do *exactly* what YOU would do. There's a certain quasi-orgasmic quality when characters are freed from writer-stupidity and allowed to behave in a manner that from a viewer's-eye view you can just viscerally react with a FUCK YEA! Really liked this episode, because it correctly "read" Gareth. Ie: The guy could plan, intricately, but he was only a one to two-steps-ahead chess player. Add to that he was accustomed to being the predator and having surprise on his side. It gave him a blindspot where it came to defense, and the script did a beautiful job of playing that out. Now from a purely atavistic point of view, I nearly wept tears of joy when Gareth was like "You could've shot us when you came in. There has to be a reason you didn't." And Rick responds "Yea, we didn't want to waste the bullets...and I made you a promise." Seldom have I seen a remorseless massacre portrayed on television that elicited such emotional satisfaction and sense of moral rightness. You got the sense that there was a sense of Release on the part of Team Rick's members. I mean they obviously ENJOYED it on some level....now whether or not Team Rick would be ready to ADMIT they enjoyed it is arguable, more likely they'd cloak their savagery under the mantle of Necessity...and maybe I'd go so far as to say Team Rick might currently even BELIEVE that...but the level of overkill demonstrated Rick and his people were getting SOMETHING out of it besides simply removing antagonists dogging their trail threatening their lives. The taking of revenge for a terrible wrong done one is so quintessentially HUMAN. Forgiveness is nice, in our modern world of legal checks and balances...but retribution has been a FAR more EFFECTIVE mechanism of social re-balancing for so very much longer than Law has. By comparison to venerable gray-haired Retribution, Law is still a squalling babe. All in all quite satisfying. No complaints here. Edit: OK, ONE complaint. Abraham is STILL escalating in Prickdom...and his whole demand for Glenn and Maggie in exchange for not just abandoning them all there at that moment just made me feel like everyone would be better off if Rick had just suddenly shot Abraham in the back of the head.

[facestabber]

Hey Wylde you're right about satisfying. It was savage. Rick even stole a line from The Gov about not wasting bullets. Pleasure or not Team Rick swung with the vengeance of a father whose family member was mutilated. It was absolutely right, beautiful and felt friggin good. WAR team Rick!!!!!

[Moon Knight]

Very satisfying episode. Intense and brilliant. Didn't think they would have killed off The Hunters so quickly but there you have it. Loving the pacing. Will have more to say later. RICK!

[MinionZombie]

It was probably a stretch to think they'd have drawn Gareth & Co out until mid-season, so I was wrong on that aspect, haha! Wow - didn't expect them to be snuffed out so quickly ... but I did expect the harshness as it was in the comics. Interesting to see the reactions of Glenn & Maggie, witnessing such brutality. Sasha's face afterwards, having committed such a vicious attack, said it all. There was vengeance, there was release, but they've also perpetrated an act of abject horror. Rick handled it easier as he'd already had the 'morning after' stunned face look in 4x16 after he ripped out the guy's throat with his bare teeth. It's good that they're not wasting too much time dragging out mini mysteries along the way - e.g. Father Gabriel's secret being cleared up at the start of this episode - you'd otherwise get to the point that the small reveal wouldn't be enough pay off if you leave it longer, so it's great to see Gimple & Co's grasp of pacing continuing to provide us with strong narrative drive and complexity. This episode had excellent tension - I was literally on the edge of my seat with my fingers all jumbled together tightly - and it was an excellent episode for Bob & Sasha. Lawrence Gilliard Jr in particular really got a lot of opportunity to shine in this episode. I loved his interactions with Sasha in this one, his humour in the face of certain death (in such messed up circumstances), and his "TAINTED MEAT!!!" flip-out at the beginning. Good sense of mis-direction too - the stuff about the walkers at that window, and it cracking, just after Rick & Co had headed out. It was awesome when they'd out-played Gareth & Co and snuck in behind them and took them down efficiently. Thinking back to the Season 5 Comic-Con trailer, the skills of their editors still amaze me. It looked like Gareth had, somehow, joined up with Team Rick for some sort of purpose - but as we've seen, these first three episodes have been entirely different. Next week's episode is blates gonna be a Governor-style episode all about Beth, which I'm very much looking forward to. I'd imagine that 5x05 will also continue that story and then tie back in to the end of this episode (5x03) by the end of 5x05 ... that's my pacing theory at least. Has something happened to Carol? Has Daryl found Beth? Why does he have that look on his face? I can't wait for next week's episode!!!

[Moon Knight]

Please, not two episodes dedicated to only Beth. Just not a big fan of hers. I can deal with The Governor episodes cause he was really interesting. I'd rather Beth been offed last season honestly.

[Wyldwraith]

Bit of logic, At the end of the episode Daryl's telling SOMEONE to "Come out"...and since Beth is still in the psychos hospital apparently, one could surmise he might be talking to Carol...or Daryl could've picked up someone new. Problem with that is the group doesn't seem very pro-strangers at the moment...so perhaps it's Morgan with Daryl? Got nothing to back this up, but my gut tells me either a) Whoever Daryl is with is known to one or more members of the group, or b) Whoever it is is so obviously a non-threat that Daryl's good-ole-boy code couldn't let him leave said person out there alone. I lean towards Option A, because Daryl has had a LOT of whatever altruism he might've ever possessed burned out of him. That said, if it isn't Carol it raises the question where is she. I absolutely 1000% do NOT believe they'd kill Carol off-camera at this point and then re-tell it in some sort of flashback. Carol might be casing the hospital where Beth is...don't know. Although I'll echo Moon in saying I REALLY don't want 2 episodes sucked up by almost entirely Beth-focused content. Don't dislike Beth or anything, just getting really burned out on ping-pong episodes again...just been too much of that last Season, and I for one feel the show needs a break from constant split-perspective content. 3 relatively unified episodes hasn't been enough for me to lose the burnout on split-party content yet. Which incidentally, is why I'm so irritated by Abraham's success in pulling Glenn & Maggie away from Team Rick. It was a dick move on his part...and his little note to Rick on the map doesn't soften/mollify my view of Abraham at all. Many assholes are quite genial right after getting everything they want. He can talk about the group deserving to be around for the world's recovery (they do, but that isn't the point), but being willing to walk off and ditch them all at a moment's notice, disregarding his considerable obligation to Carol...one of the people he had zero problems abandoning without a thought. Yes, there are times I'm a "Ends justify the means" kind of guy, but I really detest people/characters who can easily leave major debts unpaid in favor of doing what they want to do. Loyalty is big with me, and Abraham is just a dick on some many levels.

[MinionZombie]

On the subject of Abraham - he's a very focused dude. He's got his mission set firmly in his sights and that's all there is to him first and foremost ... he's set on achieving his goal in a big bad way. It's a shame that Glenn, Maggie, and Tara opted-in to the mission so readily, although for Tara I suppose it'd be far, far easier a decision to make - particularly with her history with Team Rick, even if she was forgiven with a fist bump from the man himself. However, after the events in the church, I wonder if Glenn and Maggie were somewhat spurred on to leave, horrified as they were by the actions of Rick and Sasha and, admittedly, Abraham. Hmmm... Speaking of which, that scene is interesting in the reactions it has so far brought about - different people taking away different things - Gareth & Co absolutely had to go, no ifs, buts, or coconuts, they 100% needed to be snuffed out from the world to save someone else down the line ... and while it was an immensely satisfying scene as a TWD viewer, the main thing I took from the scene was the cost to the souls of those involved (just look at Sasha's face). What about you folks, what was the main thing you took from that scene? Another question strikes me - had they been left alive, do you think Gareth and his merry band of cannibals would have stuck to their (Gareth's) word of leaving Team Rick alone? On who's with Morgan ... I'm not convinced it'll be Morgan. For one thing Daryl's never met him, but also (in a subtle detail in 5x01) when Morgan passed the "No Sanctuary" sign there was foliage grown over it unlike when Rick changed the sign. So some time has passed ... and it seems that the markings were left by Gareth & Co (his line about marking their path ... but marking it back to what, now that Terminus was a burning crater) ... so what will happen with Morgan ... ooh, the mystery! It could be Beth, but she could be all messed up in the head somehow ... or probably someone linked to the group that has Beth, more likely ... there's many ways to read that scene. Daryl's definitely seen something and knows something - and whatever that is, it can't be cheery - but who knows?! Yes ... perhaps Carol stayed behind to watch the place and reconnoiter the area. TWD 5x03 Memes: http://deadshed.blogspot.co.uk/2014/...x03-memes.html

[Moon Knight]

I agree 100% with Wyld on this one. Splitting the group yet again is very frustrating. Also, I'm pretty sure it's Beth that Daryl has. Time seems to play a factor in TWD and I'm betting we see what Daryl and company were up to during the last couple days of Team Rick slaughterhouse. Or it can just be Morales, who knows lol Kidding on the last one of course.

[AcesandEights]

On who's with Morgan ... I'm not convinced it'll be Morgan. Quite existential, MZ.