Yea im pissed//Rep System *MERGED*

[HLS]

I apparently missed something. From what I remember the decision was to keep the rep system. Then this morning I noticed it gone. Did I miss some sort of announcement? I was just starting to like the system

[jscott]

http://forum.homepageofthedead.com/s...ead.php?t=3329

[general tbag]

translation : even though it was voted to keep it threw a democratic MAJORITY process , the admins were presuaded by the MINORITY whiners to get rid of it. I get that strange deja vu feeling of the whole bush / gore thing again with that announcement.

[general tbag]

So all the recent crap on this site, and i do say crap , aka people being banned and having drama episodes mixed in with whining about a MAJORITY win vote about the rep system. ADMins WTF ! With some people abusing the system and such it seems a tad harsh and stupid to give in . but you kno whatever.

[Cody]

some sort of a "change" has happened since the new forums were established back in 02' it was the best

[Adrenochrome]

not sure what this is all about, but, I got an email the other day from HLS telling me that she has Andy and Neil "under her thumb" - now, I know that's crap, but,.....you're right, there is WAY too much drama here and not enough zombie/GAR talk. If I wanted a soap opera I'd turn on Oprah.

[Cody]

whatever not that important if it is or is not here, I voted yeah because it was kinda cool but then some ppl did abuse it but if its gone idk just got a kick out of it

[Andy]

Ive merged 2 topics as im not answering the same questions in 2 different topics. not sure what this is all about, but, I got an email the other day from HLS telling me that she has Andy and Neil "under her thumb" - now, I know that's crap, but,.....you're right, there is WAY too much drama here and not enough zombie/GAR talk. If I wanted a soap opera I'd turn on Oprah. First off, she can think what she likes, she can try pushing me and see where it gets her. Im under no-ones thumb. Secondly, with all due respect, its up to the members what they talk about. if you guys want to talk about zombies and GAR and such, we've given the facilities and the area to discuss this. if you want to make this a drama and throw mud at each other and us, that again is up to you guys. i cant control what members talk about. see what im saying andreno? So all the recent crap on this site, and i do say crap , aka people being banned and having drama episodes mixed in with whining about a MAJORITY win vote about the rep system. ADMins WTF ! With some people abusing the system and such it seems a tad harsh and stupid to give in . but you kno whatever. The drama episodes and bannings are what we are trying to stop with decisions like this. and posts like yours are not helping the cause. translation : even though it was voted to keep it threw a democratic MAJORITY process , the admins were presuaded by the MINORITY whiners to get rid of it. I get that strange deja vu feeling of the whole bush / gore thing again with that announcement. i want to clear up right now, forums are not democracies. sorry to be cruel but if you guys genuinely believe that, your gonna get knocked back again and again and thats not just here its on any forums. We might ask your opinion sometimes, Neil might ask my opinion or the moderators.. but whatever is said, however many vote for this or that, the webmasters decision is always final. sorry guys but its the way the internet works.

[Neil]

I was never particularly in favour of the reputation system. On a "technical" forum where people are asking for help etc, and someone can give help, then I can fully see how a reputation system can work - It's basically an emotionless reward from one person to another. However, what my concern was here, was that the awarding of reputation was going to be to abritary. Now this was never really any issue, until some people started either taking the system to lightly - and p$$$ing around with it, or just too seriously. Recent events did little to improve the situation, so after reconsidering the issue, it was decided to save the admins lots of hassle (& time), and as I put it, "take off and nuke the entire reputation system from orbit". We new this could unfortunately annoy the people who enjoy the reputation system, and/or use it as it was designed. To those people we are sorry, but it was deemed to simplify the site, save alot of time effort, and more importantly agrivation.

[MinionZombie]

Like I said in the shoutbox, the decision wasn't taken lightly ... there were several people who missed the vote who were annoyed as they would have voted against. I personally wanted to change my opinion to get rid of it after all the boring, childish wank kicked up - quite frankly it's not worth dealing with, so getting rid of such agro allows us to get on with other things and put more time and effort into the whole of the forum rather than dealing time and again with gripes about one aspect. There were also several members who expressed discontent with the system and wanted their personal reps "turned off". The rep system was never set in stone and was, in a sense, "on trial". Now we are back to the classic HPOTD style of reputation - word of mouth. When you know who is who and what their standing is already, what's the need for some green squares and a number? Finally, to all concerned, this decision was not made on one member's opinion, this was an admin/moderator collective decision after weighing it up on both sides. And quite frankly, as the forum is run by dedicated folks who don't get paid and get whined at when decisions are made half the time, then why bother dealing with a feature that ends up being abused and causes a bunch of hassle?

[Danny]

yeah ,what mz said, it was all mutch to "zombie nation" anyway.

[deadpunk]

i want to clear up right now, forums are not democracies. sorry to be cruel but if you guys genuinely believe that, your gonna get knocked back again and again and thats not just here its on any forums. We might ask your opinion sometimes, Neil might ask my opinion or the moderators.. but whatever is said, however many vote for this or that, the webmasters decision is always final. sorry guys but its the way the internet works. If you TRULY believe that, you've missed the boat. A forum should be run like a business. While the admin/webmaster/mods/whatever may dictate within terms and reason the services that they will or will not offer, ultimately the needs of the members/customers need to be met. You can tout the ole "We don't care if you come here or not", but that's bunk and we all know it. If you really didn't care, then you wouldn't provide an online community in the first place. Upon the "MAJORITY" win... that vote was damn near clean down the middle. And, I think perhaps that fact surprised alot of people. Yes, there were only a handful of folks that regularly expressed their opinions on the REP SYSTEM (or whined about, if you insist). What does that mean? It means there were alot of folks that were either: afraid to express their own opinions becuase of admin retribution OR felt their opinions would be disregarded by the admin team. Unless you are running a private, by invite-only community, EITHER of those concepts should cause a decent admin/mod to take a step back and consider. There are alot of references made to the old forum here. But, if I had to pick the thing I missed the most about that place it would be this: When Neil was the ONLY administrator, you never had to be afraid to express your opinion on any matter. No matter what you felt or said he never accussed you of 'whining'. He might not agree or give you what you asked for, but he listened to everyone without atttacking them for expressing their opinion. This is something you could learn from Andy, IMHO. While you can't make everyone happy all of the time, you should be serious in your attempts to give the members of your online community your attention. Just because they do not always see eye-to-eye with you, does not mean you need to degrade or attack them or warn them. There are many places on the internet where the forums are run like democracies. Of course, those places generally degrade into flame wars and etc. Yet, there is a middle ground here. There always is. We had it on LOOM, you have simply made no attempt to provide it here. The admin of a forum I joined in my abscence here has an expression that you should hear. "Folks, I'm not the dictator here, I'm the friggin' janitor!" Of course, these are just my opinions. You'll be infuriated with me for giving them, naturally. And again; that's the majority of your problem.

[p2501]

Andy/Neil thanks for killing it. It still amuses me that after how many reincaranations of this forum (i think we're on #4 now?) people still piss and wail about the most inaine stuff. and after my 6-ish years here, none of their responses have ever changed. "OMG you being a dick-tatter" "but yourse heere to serve us" or the ever go to "but this is a democracy" it' all so sadly juvenile.

[Dommm]

Well I have to say this seems to be another reason for mudslinging. I for one voted against the rep system as i feel its a whos more popular thang that takes me back to secondary education (god how I hated those days), also it was a way people could flame each other pointlessly, this is merely a discussion forum about the worlds that Romero has created, all things inspired by this world and a few off beat topics. Just cause somone can not handle the argument against them abd decides to give a bad rep point i think is rather childesh. I can see how this system could have worked but it didnt. To be honest though I wouldnt have been that greatly bothered if it stayed or went, never been a popularity seeker, or that botherd what people think of me. Oh by the by, Neil and the rest of you guys I generally think you do a great job and I for one am glad for all the work you guys have put in on this forum.

[Andy]

Upon the "MAJORITY" win... that vote was damn near clean down the middle. And, I think perhaps that fact surprised alot of people. Yes, there were only a handful of folks that regularly expressed their opinions on the REP SYSTEM (or whined about, if you insist). What does that mean? It means there were alot of folks that were either: afraid to express their own opinions becuase of admin retribution OR felt their opinions would be disregarded by the admin team. Unless you are running a private, by invite-only community, EITHER of those concepts should cause a decent admin/mod to take a step back and consider. While you can't make everyone happy all of the time, you should be serious in your attempts to give the members of your online community your attention. Just because they do not always see eye-to-eye with you, does not mean you need to degrade or attack them or warn them. Of course, these are just my opinions. You'll be infuriated with me for giving them, naturally. And again; that's the majority of your problem. nope im not infuriated with anything, although i dont really see what your accusing me of as ive never come down on someone for expressing an opinion. you do it often enough and yet here you are, no warnings.. not banned, and besides which, whenever have i not been open to opinions? every single announcement or new feature i add, every single one, do i not end it with "your questions and comments are welcome"? and do i not always answer said questions and comments? and when have i ever, and i mean ever, i challenge you to find one instance, when have i ever warned, banned or even got mad at someone for asking me questions or stating an opinion? i personally prefer people to question me and my methods and comment on what im doing, gives me chance to explain things and reinforce exactly what im doing. and i always encourage it AND i always listen and respond to it. you have no idea the ammount of work i put into this community and the ammount of time i spend paying attention to members so dont even start that. A forum should be run like a business. While the admin/webmaster/mods/whatever may dictate within terms and reason the services that they will or will not offer, ultimately the needs of the members/customers need to be met. You can tout the ole "We don't care if you come here or not", but that's bunk and we all know it. If you really didn't care, then you wouldn't provide an online community in the first place. obviously we care about having members, but not to the point where we're going to use systems we dont want, which cause trouble and drama and as good as 50% of the forum population dont want anyway! There are many places on the internet where the forums are run like democracies. Of course, those places generally degrade into flame wars and etc. Yet, there is a middle ground here. There always is. We had it on LOOM, you have simply made no attempt to provide it here. The admin of a forum I joined in my abscence here has an expression that you should hear. "Folks, I'm not the dictator here, I'm the friggin' janitor!" its been said before and im saying it again, one of the biggest things thats changed between this forum and loom is there is more authority around.. instead of just neil and cereval who were not online much, there is now 7 of us and as such, members like you dont have the law in your own hands anymore. i think its that fact that you miss most of all IMHO. is that why you resent me so much deadpunk? im talking about the way a forum is structured and coded. the webmaster of each particullar forum can tell you whatever he likes, im just being honest. and it is structured like a dictatorship. no matter what the webmaster tells you, how many opinions they listen to or how many polls they hold, they are the boss. now im not saying me, im saying neil here. for example, ive had idea's for features and add-ons and such which neil dosnt like or agree with. so we dont have them. im not pissed off becuase i know this is his place. thats what im trying to get across here, this is neils place and he makes up the rules and makes all the decisions, and if you dont like it, you can ask him to change it or you can leave. but you cant make him. thats where this is not a democracy and thats where no forum is a democracy.