the nature of evil...

[clanglee]

I see you point but even but if peoples reasonig about what is beautifull or evil might differ it does not make it impossible that some of them are right acording to objective reality. Just dismissing the notion outright because it is hard to quantify does not serve any purpose. People dont need to agree with something for that thing to be right. They are all right, or none of them are. I know what I believe is evil, but someone else may disagree with me. I know that someone I perceive as evil would indeed disagree with me on the nature of evil. It is subjective in nature, but solidified in belief.

[Khardis]

I see you point but even but if peoples reasonig about what is beautifull or evil might differ it does not make it impossible that some of them are right acording to objective reality. Just dismissing the notion outright because it is hard to quantify does not serve any purpose. People dont need to agree with something for that thing to be right. you are assuming moral right is set in stone, it is not.

[strayrider]

i was wondering what you guy's take on evil is. what is it? how do people slip toward it? personally, i view evil as a corruption in a person that takes root and grows over time. i consider it to manifest itself in people who: a. are intensely self-centered and self aggrandizing. b. who have no concept of the basic idea of right and wrong. c. have zero empathy for others. show me someone with these three character traits and i'll show you someone evil. i also don't really think that anyone starts out evil. not even hitler, stalin or mao - three of the biggest pieces of trash to walk the earth. they started out just like everybody else, as smiling babies that had no knowledge of anything. something (s) had to happen to them and others like them during the course of their lives that corrupted them to the point where they were able to do the things they did. well, that's my take. oh and by the way, since we've had so much trouble with thread trolls here the last few days, i am going to ask as the thread author that we keep this discussion to your ideas on the nature of evil. what it is and how people get that way. any posts that try to turn this thread into a discussion of anything else, i will ask to be removed. Dude, this is a toughie because, as others have stated: What is evil to you, might be good to someone else. It's all a matter of point of view, Ying/Yang, North vs South, East vs West, etc. -stray-

[Trencher]

They are all right, or none of them are. I know what I believe is evil, but someone else may disagree with me. I know that someone I perceive as evil would indeed disagree with me on the nature of evil. It is subjective in nature, but solidified in belief. What do you belive is evil then? you are assuming moral right is set in stone, it is not. I think we been over this.. Dude, this is a toughie because, as others have stated: What is evil to you, might be good to someone else. It's all a matter of point of view, Ying/Yang, North vs South, East vs West, etc. -stray- Great another moral relavtist dont you guys understand that moral relavtism is absurd? Atleast Khardis does not belive in good and evil at ALL.

[clanglee]

Great another moral relavtist dont you guys understand that moral relavtism is absurd? Atleast Khardis does not belive in good and evil at ALL. How exactly is it absurd? I believe what I believe, but I have the awareness to realize the belief is not truth. And that there is no absolute truth. It doesn't hinder or effect my beliefs to realize that others may not share them. Those who stick to absolutes are absurd to me. But what do I believe is evil? True Evil? Those who have a moral compass, but choose to ignore it. Those who feel something is wrong and do nothing to stop it or stop themselves from participating in it. I think I mentioned this before.

[strayrider]

Great another moral relavtist dont you guys understand that moral relavtism is absurd? Atleast Khardis does not belive in good and evil at ALL. Not a "Moral Relativist" at all. I do believe in good and evil, however, I'm not inclined to force my beliefs on others, thus I "danced" around the issue. I suppose I should have simply answered Scip's question, "What is the nature of evil", directly. The nature of evil is to intentionally harm another person for no other reason than to do harm. -stray-

[Dommm]

But in some cultures, Rape is perfectly ok, as long as certain strictures are maintained. Same with murder. . it's called war or battle. I'm not sure that I understand this comment did you mean in a culture of war or battle or was the rape and murder 2 separate points. And if so which culture is rape okay?? Imposing personal views on another is a form of evil as it shows the belief that the person holds there view higher then anothers... rape and murder are a form of this one believes that s/he has the right to make you do as s/he pleases. this is how Hitler was wrong, and evil in his actions he believed that he had the right based on personal belief that Jews were not allowed there right to life. Every person has the right in soceity to follow there own beliefs and structures within there own microcosm within that society as long as it does not interfere with the rights and beliefs of others... difficult but not unachievable... I believe.

[Dillinger]

There are different kinds of evil. The most common is the dull, mindless, moronic evil of a minion. A minion is the quintessential follower. For example, Hitler and the Nazi heirarchy gave the order to gas people. Mindless, moronic goons actually carried out the order. Sadistic cops, street gangs, jackboots, rioters, and all other sheeple who get sucked into group think, even at the expense of their individuality fall into this category. Then you have the fanatical form of evil. The guy that bombs an abortion clinic because killing babies is evil. The guy that beheads an infidel because Allah commands it. This form of evil is particularly dangerous because A.) he doesn't see himself as evil, and B.) he has a cause, whether it's a mission from God or a political statement, he's a fundementalist to the core, and C.) he isn't afraid to die. Finally, you have the pinnacle of evil, the methodical, deliberate, deceitful kind of evil. Most politicians, celebrities, cults of personality, bankers, lawyers, corporate CEOs fall into this category. These people are wealthy, intelligent, deceitful and have endless resources. Most of the time, this type of evil commands and facilitates the lesser forms of evil. To this type of evil, people are expendable and the end will always justify the means. These assholes are cold, calculating and are usually the ones that manipulate the goons into throwing dissidents into gas chambers. Basically, anyone that displays vampiric or predatory behavior is evil in my book. 1.) Don't abuse power and authority 2.) Don't suck off the system or the weak 3.) Don't bully people. If you absolutely have to start some ****, make sure it's a challenge and a fair fight. If you don't do that, then not only are you evil, but you're a pussy.

[clanglee]

I'm not sure that I understand this comment did you mean in a culture of war or battle or was the rape and murder 2 separate points. And if so which culture is rape okay?? . Two seperate points kinda. Murder in the name of war is culturally accepted throughout the world. Rape and pillage are often by products of this as well. There are tribes of people in South America and Africa that raid neighboring tribes and steal women. This form of rape(what else can you call it?) serves a useful function by allowing the spread of genetic material instead of genetic stagnation within the same tribe.

[Trencher]

How exactly is it absurd? I believe what I believe, but I have the awareness to realize the belief is not truth. And that there is no absolute truth. It doesn't hinder or effect my beliefs to realize that others may not share them. Those who stick to absolutes are absurd to me. Moral relavtism is absurd because it see all moral systems as equals. Not a "Moral Relativist" at all. I do believe in good and evil, however, I'm not inclined to force my beliefs on others, thus I "danced" around the issue. Okay sorry I called you a moral relativist.

[clanglee]

Moral relavtism is absurd because it see all moral systems as equals. . Oh I see. So your moral point of view is better that everyone elses? Yeah. . not many wars have started that way.

[Trencher]

Oh I see. So your moral point of view is better that everyone elses? Or its worse.... Or better than some and worse than others. What I am saying is that there is an objective thruth about what is wrong and what is right. Since humans are stupid and selfish we dont see it as clearly as we should but it does not mean that its not out there.

[strayrider]

Or its worse.... Or better than some and worse than others. What I am saying is that there is an objective thruth about what is wrong and what is right. Since humans are stupid and selfish we dont see it as clearly as we should but it does not mean that its not out there. Explain the objective truth. Not from your point of view. -stray- Okay sorry I called you a moral relativist. S'okay, dude, no offense was taken. this is how Hitler was wrong, and evil in his actions he believed that he had the right based on personal belief that Jews were not allowed there right to life. Hitler believed that Jews were a corrupting influence in German society. He was not completely wrong in this belief based on "point of view". He did not harm the Jews for no other reason than to cause harm to them. He had reasons, wrong reasons, but still reasons. This is a gray area. The nature of evil is black and white.

[Trencher]

Explain the objective truth. Not from your point of view. Do you want me to explain the concept?

[Dommm]

Two seperate points kinda. Murder in the name of war is culturally accepted throughout the world. Rape and pillage are often by products of this as well. There are tribes of people in South America and Africa that raid neighboring tribes and steal women. This form of rape(what else can you call it?) serves a useful function by allowing the spread of genetic material instead of genetic stagnation within the same tribe. In the rules of engagement (If there is really such a thing) it would immoral to harm a person that poses neither a direct or stratigical threat to you. But I think that is mearly my opionon and in a perfect world we would not need to go to war but sit round a table and talk. Never knew that you could steal women from neighbouring tribes to spread you genetics in africa... I suppose its rape if the women believe that they do not want to be there... I would argue ask the women that are subjected to this then make the judgment. Here I am talking from the perspective of no knowlege of these condition in Africa. 1.) Don't abuse power and authority 2.) Don't suck off the system or the weak 3.) Don't bully people. If you absolutely have to start some ****, make sure it's a challenge and a fair fight. If you don't do that, then not only are you evil, but you're a pussy. Basically agree with these points. Hitler believed that Jews were a corrupting influence in German society. He was not completely wrong in this belief based on "point of view". He did not harm the Jews for no other reason than to cause harm to them. He had reasons, wrong reasons, but still reasons. This is a gray area. The nature of evil is black and white. But that is exactly the point I am making, Hitler believed that the Jews where doing wrong, which is fair enough I might believe that my next door neighbour is occasionally stealing electricity from me. This is my right to believe and act upon. But the evil part comes in when he decided that he had the right to remove anothers right to free choice and life.