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Thread: Indiana Jones 5 (film)

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    The third also had that epic start with the flashback to Indy as a teen etc...
    The over-the-top action sequences are also very well done, like in the previous two films.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by MinionZombie View Post
    Doom goes further than Raiders at various points, so much so that a new rating had to be created because of it - all that heart-ripping, monkey brains gobbling stuff, plus the regular terror than the blonde lady is put through during much of the movie (so many gruesome insect scenes, the beyond icky dinner etc).
    We've probably had this conversation before, but there's nowhere in Temple of Doom that matches the sheer gruesomeness of Raiders. People's faces melt at the end of the movie. Right there, that tops anything in Temple by a country mile. Alfred Molina ends up on spikes at the beginning. Plus there's a genuine horror moment when Marion is trapped in the Well of Souls and all those skeletons are seemingly wrapping themselves around her.

    Frankly, it's a wonder that Spielberg managed to get a PG for that film. But then, it's a wonder that he got that rating for 'Jaws' six year earlier. That movie contains more frightening moments that a large percentage of actual horror movies.

    Somebody at the MPAA had the hots for him, I reckon.
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  3. #63
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    Again, I think the tonal difference between Raiders and Doom is down to who is targeted and how they're targeted for a scare.

    Raiders has creepy bug moments, such as Indy's jacket being covered in tarantuals, but he just sweeps them off. The moment is more about the other guy's fearful reaction (but he doesn't get them on him), plus it shows Indy as brave.

    Meanwhile in Doom, you have Willie going through the movie constantly grossed out, wincing, being terrified, and screaming her head off. There's so many gross out gags just on her alone which make it feel much more like torturing someone for some kinda of perverse amusement, less of a thrill ride and instead something darker in tone and execution.

    That's where the key difference is between those two movies and their tone. The sacrifice scene alone features the long and drawn-out rising terror of the poor innocent who has his heart ripped out of his chest - he even has his own heart brandished in front of his horrified eyes.

    The villains getting melted/blown up/whatever at the end of Raiders are pretty quick moments and, because they're evil Nazi bastards, you want them to get their comeuppance. Willie, annoying as she is, is still one of the good guys and she's constantly screaming her head off and always in one super uncomfortable situation after another for most of the movie ... it almost feels as if Doom is picking on her, meanwhile the characters in Raiders (e.g. Marion) are much more rough and tumble already, so even though they go through some intense moments, the audience feels a bit safer with them if that makes sense?

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by MinionZombie View Post
    Again, I think the tonal difference between Raiders and Doom is down to who is targeted and how they're targeted for a scare.

    Raiders has creepy bug moments, such as Indy's jacket being covered in tarantuals, but he just sweeps them off. The moment is more about the other guy's fearful reaction (but he doesn't get them on him), plus it shows Indy as brave.

    Meanwhile in Doom, you have Willie going through the movie constantly grossed out, wincing, being terrified, and screaming her head off. There's so many gross out gags just on her alone which make it feel much more like torturing someone for some kinda of perverse amusement, less of a thrill ride and instead something darker in tone and execution.
    But Willie's reactions are comedic in general. She screeches and yelps and is covered in bugs, but it ends up being funny. It becomes almost Monty Python. On the other hand Marion in the Well of Souls is bloody terrified and so is the audience. That sequence is damn scary and it ends with this, a genuine horror moment if ever there was one.

    Untitled-4.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by MinionZombie View Post
    That's where the key difference is between those two movies and their tone. The sacrifice scene alone features the long and drawn-out rising terror of the poor innocent who has his heart ripped out of his chest - he even has his own heart brandished in front of his horrified eyes.
    The tone in raiders is damn creepy though. In places much more so than in Temple. Both movies have their dark tones, but I've never understood this idea that Raiders was some sort of knockabout romp while Temple was a kind of horror movie for nippers. I get that Temple caused some over sensitive parents to piss and moan and led to a new MPAA rating. But that rating was coming for long time. Temple of Doom, Gremlins and a few other movies were just the culmination of that journey. But Temple of Doom gets an unfair rap because of it.

    As for the guy on the gurney going into the fire pit, that scene goes so far into OTT territory it ceases to be frightening. He has his heart ripped out and he's still alive which just makes it absurd and ridiculous. BTW, in UK and Irish cinemas that scene was cut for years. You never see Mola Ram's hand pierce the guy's chest. So it looked like old Mola was pulling a fast one on his audience and he had a heart hidden in his pocket. Ironically making it more of a scary scene.

    Quote Originally Posted by MinionZombie View Post
    The villains getting melted/blown up/whatever at the end of Raiders are pretty quick moments and, because they're evil Nazi bastards, you want them to get their comeuppance. Willie, annoying as she is, is still one of the good guys and she's constantly screaming her head off and always in one super uncomfortable situation after another for most of the movie ... it almost feels as if Doom is picking on her, meanwhile the characters in Raiders (e.g. Marion) are much more rough and tumble already, so even though they go through some intense moments, the audience feels a bit safer with them if that makes sense?
    Whether the characters are "nazis" or not isn't important. It's the visuals. Kids watching 'Raiders of the Lost Ark' had little idea what a Nazi was. But they know a melting face when they see it. And quick moments don't matter. It's long enough to make an indelible mark upon ones memory. It's frightening what happens to the people at the end of Raiders, irrespective of who they are or what their politics is, because the visuals are so horrific and they transcend any such notions. What happens to Willie, though, is Three Stooges territory, even if it is mildly unpleasant.

    I think Temple of Doom has ended up with this, quite undeserved, reputation due to the circumstances that it found itself in in 1984. The year of 'Gremlins' and 'Ghostbusters', which had spooky moments and adult humour in their own right and aren't really movies for the kiddywinks at all. But all of those films are the tipping point of a situation that had existed in cinema long before they were made. There was an inevitable tumble toward a higher than PG rating for some time.

    In any case, it remains a shame that Spielberg lost his nerve, toned everything down, and decided to make Last Crusade into a stupid slapstick farce, complete with visual gags that were just stupid and not funny. Spielberg is a master at understanding action, tension, sentimentality and pathos. But he completely lacks any comic timing or sensibilities. The same can be said for George Lucas.
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  5. #65
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TROgLeCng30

    Interesting just how much they focus on Indy while simultaneously almost entirely sidelining PWB.

    Either the leaks are wrong or, more likely, this trailer has been cut very purposefully to lure an audience for yet another bait-and-switch, which seems to be one of Disney's favourite approaches. The vibe of "'member this guy you loved? Well, here's some newbie you don't give a shit about who's taking over instead, while simultaneously being better at everything than the original guy (having put in no graft to earn it) while also belittling him at every opportunity."

    The memberberries are strong with this one. I'm suspicious.
    Last edited by MinionZombie; 02-Dec-2022 at 10:04 AM.

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    Looks like a load of time travel crap, just so they could dial in the Germans again.

    Plus some of that CGI looks seriously bad.
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by MinionZombie View Post
    Interesting just how much they focus on Indy while simultaneously almost entirely sidelining PWB.

    Either the leaks are wrong or, more likely, this trailer has been cut very purposefully to lure an audience for yet another bait-and-switch, which seems to be one of Disney's favourite approaches. The vibe of "'member this guy you loved? Well, here's some newbie you don't give a shit about who's taking over instead, while simultaneously being better at everything than the original guy (having put in no graft to earn it) while also belittling him at every opportunity."

    The memberberries are strong with this one. I'm suspicious.
    That is very very clevery crafted not to overplay PWB!



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  8. #68
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    "Dial Tone of Density"

    Yeah, even the subtitle is crap ... I mean ... that was the best you could come up with?

    I guarantee at some point in the promo whirl that they'll wheel out Harrison Ford to suggest something along the lines of he doesn't care about putting an end to Indy and killing him off/wiping him entirely from existence (and giving all of his achievements to PWB's 'meme of a character') ... a pretty cynical move, sure, but it's not some cast iron shield Disney can use. Ford had to be dragged back to Star Wars on multiple occasions and then was a happy chappy to have Han Solo killed off in #7 and he's never really been that fussed about the films he's done in the same way as the fans of said franchises (that's an understatement, no doubt). Fair enough to him, but if Disney pull that move during the promo tour then, ugh...

  9. #69
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    I have high hopes it's gonna be better than Crystal Skull, but I don't think it's going to be able to recapture the magic from the first three. Or actually, the first two. I don't like Last Crusade, I place it only slightly above Crystal Skull.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilNed View Post
    I have high hopes it's gonna be better than Crystal Skull, but I don't think it's going to be able to recapture the magic from the first three. Or actually, the first two. I don't like Last Crusade, I place it only slightly above Crystal Skull.
    Crusade had its moments. eg: The tank fight was a classic across all of the original trilogy IMHO.
    Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. [click for more]
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  11. #71
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    Editing of "The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles" to fit in with the new timeline?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IhiOooz1Wk
    Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. [click for more]
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  12. #72
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    Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. [click for more]
    -Carl Sagan

  13. #73
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    Jesus, that guy doesn't half take a circuitous route to just saying what he's gonna say ... so much waffle couching every simple statement (with some self-aggrandisement tossed into the mix as well).

    Now, whether this is John Williams getting mixed up or an actual slip up that reveals they really are re-shooting the ending, we'll see.

    Certainly, one way or another and whether or not it really is/was in the movie, the idea of retconning Indy out of his own fucking franchise and replacing him with 'Fleabag in a hat', if you will, some character tossed in at the last minute, is a bad fucking idea.

    Suffice to say, though, little of the talk around this has been good. The only vaguely non-downer comments/articles all related to "ooh, de-aged Harrison Ford" ... gosh ... such praise and anticipation.

  14. #74
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    Does seem an incredibly late stage to be doing a reshoot etc? And even if it is, can only be minor stuff surely?
    Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. [click for more]
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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    Does seem an incredibly late stage to be doing a reshoot etc? And even if it is, can only be minor stuff surely?
    Not really, the film is not due to be released until end of June. It's a vfx laden film and maybe they didn't want to test screen it before the VFX was serviceable. This schedule doesn't really strike me as that off.

    People should stop just whipping up insufferable hate against something that they might as well just skip altogether if they don't like the idea of it.

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