American Dream 1776-2007 RIP

[Khardis]

Well the Taliban seeks “freedoms” that makes their movement more powerful which makes them feel like they have achieved moral and spiritual success…. They dont seek freedom. They seek power. There is a difference. My freedom to own property doesnt force you to weak a burka and disallow you to dance. A poor example because you can start a business almost anywhere and experience “relative” success and make a “relative“ profit…if this wasn’t true the majority of the population would be unable to reproduce because they would be unable to support their offspring…yet the global population continues to grow... Wrong, you have obviously never talked to many businessmen from around the world. A "relative" profit isnt a profit if its "relative". Ask business owners in France or China. Think about it this way....will you be able to put your children into a higher caste of US society through all your work keeping in mind inflation and other costs or will they be starting from the same caste position as you started from.... Luckily in the United States we dont have a Caste system. And by definition you cannot jump Castes FYI. Youre born and die into them. If your children start from the same caste as you do after all your work then your family line isn’t moving anyway up the pyramid....a permanent state of middle to lower position.... Not sure where youre going with this, it seems though that you just like the sound of your own voice. Again, we dont have Castes in the US. For example…..if you raise six kids successfully to a point where they can have their own kids and start supporting themselves how comparable is that to someone in Mexico/Iraq/Afghanistan raising six kids to the point where they can support their own kids that can support themselves… What does this have to do with the conversation about the American Dream? Jeeze! decent apartments in my neighborhood and immediate area go for 1000-1500 a month…..apartments!! Whatever keeps the people if their given area in their given place….. Ooooh now I get to play the semantics game, I guess that would depend on your definition of "decent" I mean would a family of 6 living in a hovel in Indonesias comparative style be "decent" if they had blahblahblahblahblah...

[Terran]

Originally Posted by Terran Well the Taliban seeks “freedoms” that makes their movement more powerful which makes them feel like they have achieved moral and spiritual success…. They dont seek freedom. They seek power. There is a difference. My freedom to own property doesnt force you to weak a burka and disallow you to dance. They seek power to enforce lifestyles that they feel is the moral and right way to live. If you don’t think “American freedom” forces people within this country and around the world to live a certain lifestyle how many examples of this scenario would you need to consider it true…..I can think of at least five off the top of my head….. Wrong, you have obviously never talked to many businessmen from around the world. A "relative" profit isnt a profit if its "relative". Ask business owners in France or China. Wrong? How you can be so dismissive of a point but offer nothing to back up why you are so dismissive…I guess one can just say “Wrong you obviously just don’t know“? ….Ever read Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America by by Barbara Ehrenreich Essayist and cultural critic Barbara Ehrenreich has always specialized in turning received wisdom on its head with intelligence, clarity, and verve. With some 12 million women being pushed into the labor market by welfare reform, she decided to do some good old-fashioned journalism and find out just how they were going to survive on the wages of the unskilled--at $6 to $7 an hour, only half of what is considered a living wage. So she did what millions of Americans do, she looked for a job and a place to live, worked that job, and tried to make ends meet. As a waitress in Florida, where her name is suddenly transposed to "girl," trailer trash becomes a demographic category to aspire to with rent at $675 per month. In Maine, where she ends up working as both a cleaning woman and a nursing home assistant, she must first fill out endless pre-employment tests with trick questions such as "Some people work better when they're a little bit high." In Minnesota, she works at Wal-Mart under the repressive surveillance of men and women whose job it is to monitor her behavior for signs of sloth, theft, drug abuse, or worse. She even gets to experience the humiliation of the urine test. So, do the poor have survival strategies unknown to the middle class? And did Ehrenreich feel the "bracing psychological effects of getting out of the house, as promised by the wonks who brought us welfare reform?" Nah. Even in her best-case scenario, with all the advantages of education, health, a car, and money for first month's rent, she has to work two jobs, seven days a week, and still almost winds up in a shelter. As Ehrenreich points out with her potent combination of humor and outrage, the laws of supply and demand have been reversed. Rental prices skyrocket, but wages never rise. Rather, jobs are so cheap as measured by the pay that workers are encouraged to take as many as they can. Behind those trademark Wal-Mart vests, it turns out, are the borderline homeless. With her characteristic wry wit and her unabashedly liberal bent, Ehrenreich brings the invisible poor out of hiding and, in the process, the world they inhabit--where civil liberties are often ignored and hard work fails to live up to its reputation as the ticket out of poverty I said Think about it this way....will you be able to put your children into a higher caste of US society through all your work keeping in mind inflation and other costs or will they be starting from the same caste position as you started from.... Luckily in the United States we dont have a Caste system. And by definition you cannot jump Castes FYI. Youre born and die into them. I guess “Caste” was too strong of a word …..but we have a growing Class system that is becoming increasingly more difficult to move up the ranks…. We got the homeless(mostly crazies)….the poor…..lower class….middle class….upper middle class…..the rich….and the super rich…..For the most part the taxes of this country and general society conventions and living expenses for various areas keep people in their class….people are born in a certain class and generally die as the same class….Very very few people change their class….. Originally Posted by Terran Think about it this way....will you be able to put your children into a higher caste of US society through all your work keeping in mind inflation and other costs or will they be starting from the same caste position as you started from.... Not sure where youre going with this, it seems though that you just like the sound of your own voice. Again, we dont have Castes in the US. Well replace Caste with “class” and the point is still applicable…… I said For example…..if you raise six kids successfully to a point where they can have their own kids and start supporting themselves how comparable is that to someone in Mexico/Iraq/Afghanistan raising six kids to the point where they can support their own kids that can support themselves… What does this have to do with the conversation about the American Dream? It has to do with relative “profit”….If your not at least a bit financially successful one wouldn’t be able to support kids….. Jeeze! decent apartments in my neighborhood and immediate area go for 1000-1500 a month…..apartments!! Whatever keeps the people if their given area in their given place….. Ooooh now I get to play the semantics game, I guess that would depend on your definition of "decent" I mean would a family of 6 living in a hovel in Indonesias comparative style be "decent" if they had blahblahblahblahblah... I mean “decent”……this apartment complex near my house smells like urine in the hallways and in the elevators….only one elevator in the place works (18 floors)….A three bedroom place is this **** hole costs $1500 a month to live in….Its an apartment in a **** hole for $1500 a month the rooms are tiny as hell… I wasn’t trying to play a semantics game I was just trying to illustrate how living expenses generally reflect a cost that keeps people in their class position…..

[Cody]

you should see house rates here in florida TERRIBLE

[Bongholio]

oh its not just one! bankruptcy of 22 lenders over the past two months

[Bongholio]

bump 1/3 the country foreclosed? What about all the dummies who will be bankrupt because they invested in this debt on the stock market masquerading as "securities" http://www.alternet.org/story/50120/