Corona Virus

[MinionZombie]

True - they are just a few nobodies. eg: Flat Earthers are now more vocal and organised than ever, but I don't see them as a threat to rational thought. People who'd otherwise be likely to think the earth is flat, are simply the ones likely to end up circling social media echo chambers. Covid deniers and the like I see in the same boat really, and I don't see them as a threat to otherwise rational folks. And as for countless alarmist articles after attention/hits? The problem with modern media/news IMHO is so much of it is attention/hit/revenue/agenda driven, so it's hard to judge what you see on it as a fair representation of reality. 1) The trouble with that analogy, though, is that a flat earther believing that crap isn't going to affect the health of other people. Covid deniers, on the other hand... Plus, flat earthers will always be confounded by the simple truth - the earth is indeed round. Seeing those failed 'experiments' on that Netflix doc about flat earthers was hilarious, but it was also scary as it showed the problem with these kinds of thinkers. They're presented with proof that goes against their belief ... after a moment of confusion, they begin manufacturing any possible explanation, no matter how unlikely or even impossible, to save face. There's far too much of that these days and social media has spread it like wild fire. 2) There certainly are numerous issues with the news media, of all forms. I've been watching some American news channels recently (what with all the insurrection stuff that went down recently), and ... why with all the dramatic music underscoring everything? Why with the silly titles for segments like "The Situation Room"? Why does Wolf Blitzer always talk in a way that sounds like he's either about to announce nuclear armageddon or is about to crap himself? Fox News is vile, but CNN falls back on the same problem of a gaggle of commentators telling each other what they think rather than one person calmly telling us the facts of what is happening. Oh, for the days of Michael Buerk.

[JDP]

I'd say a "small vocal minority" myself... They are way more than that. Plus then there's the "non-vocal" ones, who believe the same nonsense but just don't bother to try to let everyone know.

[Neil]

They are way more than that. Plus then there's the "non-vocal" ones, who believe the same nonsense but just don't bother to try to let everyone know. Walk down a street. I suspect the first 100 folks you pass for example all believe covid is real, and a genuine threat to some degree... I'd wager if you carried on past a thousand, you'd still be unlikely to find a single 'covid denier' for example... Where we have deniers, IMHO the issue is the press will highlight them, and social media allows their voice(s) to be amplified... If I go back to my flat earthers comparison, I don't think there's more flat earthers today than 20yrs ago, it's just they now they have social media to broadcast/annouce their existence giving the impression they're more prevalent than they are.

[shootemindehead]

1) The trouble with that analogy, though, is that a flat earther believing that crap isn't going to affect the health of other people. Covid deniers, on the other hand... Plus, flat earthers will always be confounded by the simple truth - the earth is indeed round. Seeing those failed 'experiments' on that Netflix doc about flat earthers was hilarious, but it was also scary as it showed the problem with these kinds of thinkers. They're presented with proof that goes against their belief ... after a moment of confusion, they begin manufacturing any possible explanation, no matter how unlikely or even impossible, to save face. There's far too much of that these days and social media has spread it like wild fire. The web has certainly emboldened a lot of these kooks, because there's a site out there that will confirm all of your batshit beliefs and bring you into contact with lie minded people. They enter into this echo chamber cult situation that becomes very difficult to get out of. But I'd also say that it has a lot to do with the rise of a certain air that's been around for a while now. That is the idea that being wrong is somehow the worst thing you can be and that it must be something to avoided at all costs, lest you lose all credibility forever. You see it all the time in discussion these days. People digging their heels in and doubling down on the most ridiculous of positions all in an effort to "win" something. It's a crazy situation, because the natural state of being is to be wrong in part or in whole a large percentage of the time 2) There certainly are numerous issues with the news media, of all forms. I've been watching some American news channels recently (what with all the insurrection stuff that went down recently), and ... why with all the dramatic music underscoring everything? Why with the silly titles for segments like "The Situation Room"? Why does Wolf Blitzer always talk in a way that sounds like he's either about to announce nuclear armageddon or is about to crap himself? Fox News is vile, but CNN falls back on the same problem of a gaggle of commentators telling each other what they think rather than one person calmly telling us the facts of what is happening. Oh, for the days of Michael Buerk. American "news" is little more than a show set up to appeal to a particular audience. It's there to feed a base with the opinions they want to hear and to confirm their biases so they'll continue to support the channel. The likes of FOX exemplifies this trend of (so called) news, in that it was specifically set up to be a foghorn for the Republican party. So they'll go to the ends of the earth to put a particular slant on any news item they deliver. The media in the States is woeful for this, because EVERYTHING is based of viewing figures. So a "news channel", has to always be mindful of what their audience wants to hear, because if they don't put forth the comforting scenarios their viewership wants, they'll drift. Into the bargain, these "news channels" are now up against the likes of YouTube, which have videos telling you that the likes of Pizzagate is real or that the election really was "stolen". So the "news channels" have to enhance their delivery with stupid military talk like "sit rep" and other dumb shite that doesn't belong near a news report. The problem is that these types of "news channels" are becoming the norm and the good old fashion 6 o'clock and 9 o'clock news programmes are getting more and more "old hat", despite the fact that they remain the best way to get basic facts of a given matter. Thing ism it isn't going to get any better.

[Neil]

The web has certainly emboldened a lot of these kooks, because there's a site out there that will confirm all of your batshit beliefs and bring you into contact with lie minded people. If we take Mr Flatearther again. 25yrs ago, to get any of his notions out into the open, he'd have to write an article, and push it through a magazine/paper, where of course there'd be a couple of sensible people in his way. Now, they can publish straight to the planet via Youtube, Facebook and Twatter. And as you say, this also means they can find other like minded people super easy too!

[JDP]

Walk down a street. I suspect the first 100 folks you pass for example all believe covid is real, and a genuine threat to some degree... I'd wager if you carried on past a thousand, you'd still be unlikely to find a single 'covid denier' for example... Where we have deniers, IMHO the issue is the press will highlight them, and social media allows their voice(s) to be amplified... If I go back to my flat earthers comparison, I don't think there's more flat earthers today than 20yrs ago, it's just they now they have social media to broadcast/annouce their existence giving the impression they're more prevalent than they are. Before they implemented mandatory masks, social distancing, etc., in public places, punishable under various penalties for anyone not following such preventive measures, you could more easily see the large numbers of people who in one way or another believe that this pandemic is "not real" or not dangerous. Why else do you think that the numbers of infected keep on going up even this late into it? Loads of people are not paying any attention to the warnings and just not taking the situation seriously (a lot of people are still getting infected in private gatherings, where the law cannot reach them and force them to stop.) Rest assured that if the governments of the world eliminated the penalties for not following some basic preventive guidelines you would see loads of more people not following any.

[Mike70]

I'd say a "small vocal minority" myself... Not in the US, dude. Almost 50% of right wingers in this country are fervent believers in conspiracy theories. DO NOT JUDGE THE US BY YOUR OWN STANDARDS. That is the way of madness. This country is full of fuckin' idiots, loons, and uneducated fucks that are just ripe for nonsense. NOT A MINORITY AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!n At least as far as the US is concerned. You cannot dispel the fact the about 35% of the US population wants this world to end and would happily assist it to end. Please stay out of the end of the pool marked "Americans", Neil. You have very, very little grasp over the kind of shit that goes on over here. Not an insult, just a fact. You know exactly SHITE when it comes to over here.

[JDP]

I don't remember ever seeing even one "Trumpian" (and there's millions and millions of these peculiar specimens of mankind) who hasn't got one doubt or another regarding the reality of the pandemic. The majority of them were in fact convinced that it was just a "hoax" perpetrated by the Democrats and their "billionaire supporters" in order to try to sabotage the election and make Trump and his entourage look bad and lose. They were also very convinced that the pandemic would just quietly and mysteriously "go away" soon after the election (after it had served its alleged purpose.) Too bad that this part of their delusional fairy tales did not come true! The shit is still very much here, it hasn't "gone away" at all, quite contrary to their "predictions". In fact, it just keeps getting worse, now even with new mutations of the virus rearing their ugly heads.

[MinionZombie]

Before they implemented mandatory masks, social distancing, etc., in public places, punishable under various penalties for anyone not following such preventive measures, you could more easily see the large numbers of people who in one way or another believe that this pandemic is "not real" or not dangerous. Why else do you think that the numbers of infected keep on going up even this late into it? Loads of people are not paying any attention to the warnings and just not taking the situation seriously (a lot of people are still getting infected in private gatherings, where the law cannot reach them and force them to stop.) Rest assured that if the governments of the world eliminated the penalties for not following some basic preventive guidelines you would see loads of more people not following any. And then there's the simple 'small scale' 'rule bending' that goes on routinely. I've seen plenty of it going on. People getting their kitchens refitted, for example, during lockdown when they're not supposed to. People walking around town going in and out of shops without a mask on. People's 'bubbles' being quite a bit larger than recommended, etc etc etc. Pisses me right off, considering we're very strictly following the guidelines.

[Neil]

There does seem to be some very harsh/extreme views here Let's just keep in mind CV19 is no where near as bad as it was first feared. The average age of a CV19 victim is basically older than life expectancy. That alone should tell us something about the people who are sadly being taken by this disease. That's of course not to say people are not suffering and dying from it, but we need to keep measured surely? But I do fear when monthly death rates are compared from 2020 and 2021, to say years over the previous decade, it'll put the somewhat alarmist death and infection rates pushed by the press into context. ie: I expect eye brows may then be raised at the increase in death from other causes that will spike in 2021 and 2022 such as untreated and undiagnosed diseases (eg: lung cancer alone kills something like 30k people a year in the UK, and diagnosis was down 75% last year). And that's ignoring the outcome of the biggest financial/economic crisis for example the UK has been in since before even German bombs were hitting London. That said, the economy here the UK does look in better shape that I feared (at the moment)... But then, we're still in a Lockdown with no end in sight, businesses are still going down the drain, and businesses like the holiday industry may take year(s) to boot up again properly, which of course snowball across huge areas of other business. I wonder what unemployment figures will look like in a years time? I don't remember ever seeing even one "Trumpian" (and there's millions and millions of these peculiar specimens of mankind) who hasn't got one doubt or another regarding the reality of the pandemic. The majority of them were in fact convinced that it was just a "hoax" perpetrated by the Democrats and their "billionaire supporters" in order to try to sabotage the election and make Trump and his entourage look bad and lose. They were also very convinced that the pandemic would just quietly and mysteriously "go away" soon after the election (after it had served its alleged purpose.) Too bad that this part of their delusional fairy tales did not come true! The shit is still very much here, it hasn't "gone away" at all, quite contrary to their "predictions". In fact, it just keeps getting worse, now even with new mutations of the virus rearing their ugly heads. Please let's not nose dive into that territory again... Please...

[MinionZombie]

Harsh and extreme? And let's be honest here, the likelihood of Covid denial goes up if someone's a Trumper. He didn't take it seriously, he fumbled the ball, he just said whatever rubbish sprang to mind in front of medical professionals who died inside live on television. The man was/is an arse.

[JDP]

Please let's not nose dive into that territory again... Please... You were questioning the size of the pandemic deniers, and I just gave you an example of a large group that keeps on doubting it.

[Neil]

Harsh and extreme? And let's be honest here, the likelihood of Covid denial goes up if someone's a Trumper. He didn't take it seriously, he fumbled the ball, he just said whatever rubbish sprang to mind in front of medical professionals who died inside live on television. The man was/is an arse. And yet if we take documented examples of Republicans flouting covid rules vs Democrats flouting covid rules, what conclusion do we then come too? Ultimately what is the point of these sort of discussions in truth? So let's please leave the politics out of the thread where we can. It just doesn't lead to good outcomes imho. Pretty please...

[MinionZombie]

And yet if we take documented examples of Republicans flouting covid rules vs Democrats flouting covid rules, what conclusion do we then come too? Ultimately what is the point of these sort of discussions in truth? So let's please leave the politics out of the thread where we can. It just doesn't lead to good outcomes imho. Pretty please... Flouting Covid rules and denying Covid even exists (i.e. claims of "it's a hoax") are two different things - and politicians are often idiots, so that's hardly surprising. It was like here in the UK where there were giant idiots like Dominic fucking Cummings, or that moron from the SNP, or even Corbyn who has been pictured/videoed on multiple occasions since March 2020 breaking various rules (e.g. social distancing, sheltering orders for the over 70s, attending functions with too many people). Politicians abiding by the rules they set for other people? Yeah, when will that ever catch on? But politicians and the populace at large are two very different things. And is the 'not good' outcome partly you hearing things you don't want to hear?

[Neil]

Sigh! Here's an example of what I was mentioning before - The press (IMHO) dramatising CV19, almost to dishonest levels. The Guardian reports, "2020 was deadliest year in a century in England and Wales. Fatalities hit flu pandemic levels of 1918 with more than 608,000 deaths recorded" - https://www.theguardian.com/society/...wales-says-ons So after leading the reader with that headline, along with a picture of a coffin, it proceeds to back up that alarming headline with this graph:- Gives quite a worrying impression of 2020 doesn't it! Heck it's even worse that WW2! It's the worst year ever on record, along with 1918? HOWEVER, if we adjust those figures inline with population, how does the graph then look?:- So in fact the death rate in 2020 was less than every year before 2003? That's a little less dramatic than the headline implies isn't it? The article attempts to cover this, but towards the end, by which time most readers have moved on; Most having read the headline and seen a graph on the first page? These 'journalists' I'm sure are rated/employed based on hits to their articles. So the more alarmist and dramatic the better? No matter how contrived (dishonest)? - This sort of 'journalism' seems all too common now IMHO (because of the internet of course)