Herds?

[Trin]

With all the faults we find with Gar's latest works atleast he shows us what the world is like years into the outbreak and gives us insight into ghoul's behavior patterns. Yeah, like they take the whole movie to figure out how to shoot them in the head (ala military in Land) while the ghouls figure out how to shoot the humans in half the movie. We're going the wrong direction here folks!!!!

[strayrider]

Didn't Roger and Peter play on the herd theory we they pulled the "Old Okey Doke" in the mall? Land of the Dead showed us the "herd" on a grand scale. (one thing I've always wondered about this is why, with Fiddler's Green looming like a beacon in the distance as seen from Union Town, didn't the ghouls head there long before Riley's raid?) -stray-

[Andy]

Didn't Roger and Peter play on the herd theory we they pulled the "Old Okey Doke" in the mall? Land of the Dead showed us the "herd" on a grand scale. (one thing I've always wondered about this is why, with Fiddler's Green looming like a beacon in the distance as seen from Union Town, didn't the ghouls head there long before Riley's raid?) -stray- Partially right but not entirely, i think you missed the point of what im saying.. Peter and Roger made alot of noise to get zombies to come to them, all the zombies in the area heard it and went, and then they ran to the other entrance and slipped out quietly. Land is complete filth so im not even gonna go there.. But the herd theory is more about zombies wondering aimlessly in large groups, not being drawn to a noise. The theory (once again) and in very simple terms this time. 1. Zombie hears sound. 2. Zombie begins shambling towards sound to "investigate". 3. Second Zombie notices first Zombie shambling and joins it. 4. Third zombie Notices first and Second shambling together and joins them. 5. Repeat previous steps until you have a large group, for example 20+ zombies. 6. First Zombie has forgotten what sound was or where it came from and thus follows the rest of the group which were following it. 7. You have a herd of zombies all shambling together, now aimlessly. Read steps 6. and 7. closely.. this is the key part of the herd theory and why im not just saying zombies wonder towards sound. Now you have a grasp of the theory, you can look at the question, which is would the "herd" continue to follow each other endlessly, or would they slowly disapate and lose interest in following the group? Zombies, by the their nature, follow instinct. we are told they are nothing more than motorized instinct and human instinct says follow the group, safety in numbers, so it makes sense to me that this would occur, but then why is it never addressed in any zombie movie? No-one ever encounters a large "herd" of zombies all moving together..

[Thorn]

human instinct says follow the group, safety in numbers, so it makes sense to me that this would occur, but then why is it never addressed in any zombie movie? No-one ever encounters a large "herd" of zombies all moving together.. This is very much true and why I feel the herd theory holds true, and what I was getting at as well. Thank you for summing it up better than I had. Humans instinctively band together so I think zombies would too for the most part. In life you have some loners, and I think this would be the case in zombie-ville also but for the most part aimless herds or hordes of zombies roaming around not certain of what they are doing other than following each others directionless lead is quite plausible.

[AcesandEights]

1. Zombie hears sound. 2. Zombie begins shambling towards sound to "investigate". 3. Second Zombie notices first Zombie shambling and joins it. 4. Third zombie Notices first and Second shambling together and joins them. 5. Repeat previous steps until you have a large group, for example 20+ zombies. 6. First Zombie has forgotten what sound was or where it came from and thus follows the rest of the group which were following it. 7. You have a herd of zombies all shambling together, now aimlessly. Read steps 6. and 7. closely.. this is the key part of the herd theory and why im not just saying zombies wonder towards sound. Excellent way of describing it, Andy. Now, I'm not saying that herds would be the dominant zombie behavior that would be displayed in my ideal fictional universe, but it would definitely have a place in it. Keep in mind there would be a lot of idle groups in and about areas and a lot of sole wanderers, as well. I think part of the scary thing about zombies can be seeing patterns in their behavior, but never truly being able to account for all possibilities and the patterns never completely holding up across the entirety of all zombies someone might run into. Thus, you might be able to depend on the zombies behavior in some respects, but the minute you take them for granted and assume they are a known quantity, you risk getting bit (literally) in the ass.

[Trin]

I don't think it would happen that way. I think the zombie attention span is too low. The steps make sense to get a large group moving together, but it's not sustainable. Eventually, without a discernible food goal, they disperse to their own distractions. One thing I find noteworthy. The moan a zombie emits when it hears/sees/detects food (humans) seems to be a distinct sound to other zombies. Zombies can make all the noise they want and the other zombies simply ignore them, but the food moan always gets the other zombie's attention. With that in mind, after the initial group starts moving I'd think at least one or some of them must continue to discern a food source (whether by sound, sight, smell, etc.) and keep making that food moan to keep the zombies grouped. Like us, they'll only pay attention to something so long as it's interesting. Without that they'll revert to their own distractions, as we see evidenced in Dawn (where the zombies are all milling about the mall prior to detecting the survivors), in Day (where the zombies are not grouped in the city), and even in the "complete filth" (ROFL) of Land where the zombies are all doing their own thing in Uniontown.

[BillyRay]

I've seen cows do the same exact thing. @#$%-ing creepy....

[AcesandEights]

I've seen cows do the same exact thing. @#$%-ing creepy.... If only zeds were as tasty...and not going to kill/infect you when you ate them

[Debbieangel]

I don't think it would happen that way. I think the zombie attention span is too low. The steps make sense to get a large group moving together, but it's not sustainable. Eventually, without a discernible food goal, they disperse to their own distractions. One thing I find noteworthy. The moan a zombie emits when it hears/sees/detects food (humans) seems to be a distinct sound to other zombies. Zombies can make all the noise they want and the other zombies simply ignore them, but the food moan always gets the other zombie's attention. With that in mind, after the initial group starts moving I'd think at least one or some of them must continue to discern a food source (whether by sound, sight, smell, etc.) and keep making that food moan to keep the zombies grouped. Like us, they'll only pay attention to something so long as it's interesting. Without that they'll revert to their own distractions, as we see evidenced in Dawn (where the zombies are all milling about the mall prior to detecting the survivors), in Day (where the zombies are not grouped in the city), and even in the "complete filth" (ROFL) of Land where the zombies are all doing their own thing in Uniontown. Agreed! My thoughts exactly, I think they might "herd" together thinking there is food where the other zombs are but their tension span being what it is they would lose interest and go away after they find out that their feast for the night isn't available. Even after awhile the "skyflowers" in Land lost their interest, so, "herding" together I wouldn't think so unless there is fresh meat.

[darth los]

If only zeds were as tasty...and not going to kill/infect you when you ate them Dude, gotta be one of my favorite sigs ever!! Yeah, like they take the whole movie to figure out how to shoot them in the head (ala military in Land) while the ghouls figure out how to shoot the humans in half the movie. We're going the wrong direction here folks!!!! I never put two and two together on that since I almost never watch land , but ya, you're right!! Didn't Roger and Peter play on the herd theory we they pulled the "Old Okey Doke" in the mall? Land of the Dead showed us the "herd" on a grand scale. (one thing I've always wondered about this is why, with Fiddler's Green looming like a beacon in the distance as seen from Union Town, didn't the ghouls head there long before Riley's raid?) -stray- Perhaps the spectacle of the green just hypnotized them the way the sky flowers did.

[MoonSylver]

... I'm sorry Aces...what were you saying...your new sig has me distracted.....

[strayrider]

1. Zombie hears sound. 2. Zombie begins shambling towards sound to "investigate". 3. Second Zombie notices first Zombie shambling and joins it. 4. Third zombie Notices first and Second shambling together and joins them. 5. Repeat previous steps until you have a large group, for example 20+ zombies. 6. First Zombie has forgotten what sound was or where it came from and thus follows the rest of the group which were following it. 7. You have a herd of zombies all shambling together, now aimlessly. Read steps 6. and 7. closely.. this is the key part of the herd theory and why im not just saying zombies wonder towards sound. Now you have a grasp of the theory, you can look at the question, which is would the "herd" continue to follow each other endlessly, or would they slowly disapate and lose interest in following the group? Got you. I was going to use this in a story some years back, but never got around to it. I would venture that it would depend on the size of the herd. 20 or 30 ghouls would probably break up very quickly without something to motivate them to move together. A "super herd", say one containing 100,000 or more might go on for days, covering miles of distance. Heck, something this size might never break up entirely. It this what you mean? -stray- ps -- it just occured to me that, on the old Caravan of the Dead fiction board, CJ Hopegiver did come up with this idea. If I remember correctly, it involved a massive (numbering in the millions) herd of ghouls moving across Texas and Arizona. I understand that this "herd" concept is what is happening in "The Walking Dead" as of right now, and Kirkman probably came up with it on his own, but it is certainly not the first time it has been addressed in "print". CJ's idea kept a lot of us entertained "back in the day".

[capncnut]

1. Zombie hears sound. 2. Zombie begins shambling towards sound to "investigate". 3. Second Zombie notices first Zombie shambling and joins it. 4. Third zombie Notices first and Second shambling together and joins them. 5. Repeat previous steps until you have a large group, for example 20+ zombies. 6. First Zombie has forgotten what sound was or where it came from and thus follows the rest of the group which were following it. 7. You have a herd of zombies all shambling together, now aimlessly. I'm actually amazed Andrew had to point these things out.

[strayrider]

I think that it is possible that the herd would be perpetual if it were of great size. 1. a survivor moves through an area stirring up a group of ghouls. Let's say this takes place on the outskirts of a large city. The survivor moves on, but several hundred "stirred up" ghouls follow, moving in the same general direction (say west). 2. this core group of several hundred will be making noise as it shambles along which will stir up other ghouls in its path, who then rise from their "hidy holes" (as seen in the beginning of "Day") and join in the march. By now, the original group of ghouls (the core) might have lost interest in the survivor that they were pursuing, but they are being held together in a group by others who are joining on the perimeter and basically forcing them to continue to "march" in a westerly direction. By now the core group might number in the 1000s. 3. The core group of several thousand then "brushes up" against a large population center and the noise they make causes the formation of several dozen smaller "core" groups which all begin to move in the direction of the rapidly forming "super herd". The ghouls are now being drawn to themselves, by their own activity, like iron filings to a magnet. 4. By the time that this super herd has moved beyond the small city its numbers has grown to 20, or 30-thousand. The original ghouls (the ones who first went after the survivor) are now insignificant. They have been completely absorbed into the super herd which continues to move west, an unstoppable mass which continually swells and wanes, but continues to move, unable to stop itself ... the ghouls in the center of the herd move because the core itself is moving, the ghouls on the periphery of the herd move because the core is moving ... and the herd grows into the millions, constantly moving, constantly gathering members, constantly shedding members, but never ceasing to exist. -stray-

[SRP76]

The whole thing could be considered a herd. Depends how "close together" you think zombies have to be to be considered part of the same group. Think about how we have infested this planet. Taking the entire land area on Earth, and dividing it by the number of zombies, you get 104+ zombies per square mile. This means, even if they're spaced out evenly, no zombie is more than 500 feet from another zombie. That's not very far. Easily within sight of one another. Now consider that coverage over the entire planet. No place to run, nowhere to hide. They're everywhere, and close enough to one another. When viewed from high altitude, the whole planet is covered by one "herd".