Scientists worry new superbug could spread worldwide

[Trin]

Antibiotic resistance, yeah I'm right there with you guys. Especially considering the treatments of last resort for things like MRSA are very very expensive. Not trying to discredit your 12 years of experience Lou, but I cringe at the anti-vaccine rhetoric. Not directed personally at you, but look at the stuff being said here. Some posts in this thread are contending that the government is in bed with the drug manufacturers to fleece the pockets of the taxpayers to the tune of 16 Billion profit. Really? Look at the Fortune 500 most profitable companies for the past 5 years and you won't see one vaccine maker hitting 16 Billion. Again, want to talk Revenue? That's at least an argument that would require pulling profit/loss statements for companies. And are you really meaning to imply that your company is producing unsafe medications? Was the swine flu vaccine produced in a different way, or with different controls in place than a typical flu run? Is the swine flu vaccine different than previous flu vaccines beyond the strains of flu incorporated? Or are you contending that ALL flu vaccines have been unsafe and untested for years? I will happily defer to the expertise of those more in that sector. The public panic thing... I'd agree there's some meat on that bone. But I don't think it is the government's doing. I also don't think it's the drug manufacturer's doing either. I've been in the industry for 20 years and frankly I just don't see it.

[darth los]

Some posts in this thread are contending that the government is in bed with the drug manufacturers to fleece the pockets of the taxpayers to the tune of 16 Billion profit. Really? Yes. The biggest diservice we can do to ourselves is assuming, "Nah, our gov't would never do that." It is then when they have us. Not saying it's true or not because i can't prove it but the circumstantial evidence points to it. What is fact is that between the Big pharma, big oil, the banks, trial lawyers and insurance companies they have virtually every pol in the congress in their pockets. That much is fact. Just follow the money via campaign contributions and then you'll see why true reform will never happen.

[LouCipherr]

Not trying to discredit your 12 years of experience Lou, but I cringe at the anti-vaccine rhetoric. Not directed personally at you, but look at the stuff being said here. Some posts in this thread are contending that the government is in bed with the drug manufacturers to fleece the pockets of the taxpayers to the tune of 16 Billion profit. Not taken that way, I understand what you're trying to say, but I wanted to express that I do know a thing or two about vaccines, the approval process, and the shit these companies will do to sell their drug even when they know damn well that A) they don't know the effectiveness of the drug and B) they don't know the short nor long term effects of the vaccine - all of this is in reference to the swine flu vaccine only. I'm not referring to any other vaccine. As far as the anti-vaccination stuff - I think that's pretty stupid. When a vaccine, such as polio vaccines, seasonal flu vaccines, measels vaccines, etc. has proven track record of effectiveness, it would be insane to say "I'm not sticking that in me or my kid!" but the siwne flu (which is what i've been harping on) is a whole other ball of wax. And are you really meaning to imply that your company is producing unsafe medications? Was the swine flu vaccine produced in a different way, or with different controls in place than a typical flu run? Is the swine flu vaccine different than previous flu vaccines beyond the strains of flu incorporated? Or are you contending that ALL flu vaccines have been unsafe and untested for years? I will happily defer to the expertise of those more in that sector. I'm not saying my company in particular is doing so - we're not working on flu vaccinations - but there are many who are producing unsafe medications. While these aren't vaccines, talk to or read up on some of the people who have taken things like Accutane and Chantix. Neither of those should have EVER made it to the market, but they did, and many people have died and/or had permanent repercussions from taking such things. It's not an every-day occurence, but it does happen. I'm also not saying that all flu vaccines are troublesome, but the swine flu vaccine in particular - yeah, I have a major problem with it's manufacture and sale. That shit was pushed through the approval process waaaaay too quickly. While Dj consistently tells me that the swine flu vaccine is manufactured almost identically to the seasonal flu vaccine, that doesn't mean it's exactly the same. It uses different "ingredients" so-to-speak, and therefore, it cannot be assumed it is just as safe as the seasonal flu vaccine and it should have to go through the same approval process of any other vaccine/medication on the market. It did not. The public panic thing... I'd agree there's some meat on that bone. But I don't think it is the government's doing. I also don't think it's the drug manufacturer's doing either. I've been in the industry for 20 years and frankly I just don't see it. I see it all the time. Drugs are pushed when there is an overstock of inventory and an atrifical panic is sometimes created to push the sale of these drugs (again, swine-flu in particular). It's big business, and just like any other big business, they will do whatever it takes to make a profit and stay in business. Again, I'm not pinning this on every biotech or pharmaceitucal company out there, but lemme tell ya, there's some serious shady dealings going on in back rooms that people would be shocked to know about. As sad as it is to admit, I've seen it happen. Sorry if I came off a bit harsh on my first reply to you Trin, but it worries me there isn't more concern about the medications pushed onto the general public. You'll notice more and more lawyer commericals saying "If you've taken <insert medication here> and had serious side effects such as <list horrific side effects here> you may be entitled..." While I know most lawyers are blood-sucking leeches and will litigate anything they think they can make lots of money off of, the fact remains that there is a higher and higher percentage of drugs being approved and pushed onto the market before their safety, both short and long term, is researched. It's scary, actually. And don't get me wrong, I am NOT one of those "anti-vaccination" people - but I do believe that the whole H1N1/Swine Flu threat of a "pandemic" was pure bullshit, and I do believe that vaccine in particular has not been researched enough to verify it's safe use. *puts on tinfoil hat*

[darth los]

Not on the topic of vaccines but all these children that psychologists dope up nowdays who are diagnosed with ADHD who were just dubbed "problem chidren" back in the day don't know the long term effects of those drugs either. But since corporal punishment is not p.c. nowdays it's all about timeouts and drugs and big pharma couldn't be happier.

[LouCipherr]

Not on the topic of vaccines but all these children that psychologists dope up nowdays who are diagnosed with ADHD who were just dubbed "problem chidren" back in the day don't know the long term effects of those drugs either. Another good example, los. Kudos.

[darth los]

Another good example, los. Kudos. Thnx. We're all making good points which are not mutually exclusive.

[Trin]

The topic of unsafe medications and overuse of things like ADHD drugs is way outside the scope of any remarks I've made. Good points, and I agree with many of them, but not at all what I was addressing. The whole notion of manufactured panic is really hard to quantify. The swine flu, just like the bird flu, is a strain that has historically been associated with mass death. That's why agencies like the WHO advocate higher production of vaccine. It's great to look retrospectively and say that the panic was unjustified because we had no mass death, but it's just as valid to look at the very high flu rates and conclude that the flu vaccine staved off a lot of the more severe problems. Note that last year clinics, doctor's offices, and hospitals were so backed up with flu patients that they were unable to test them all for what strain they had. We still don't have accurate data on how widespread swine flu was. I'm also not saying that all flu vaccines are troublesome, but the swine flu vaccine in particular - yeah, I have a major problem with it's manufacture and sale. That shit was pushed through the approval process waaaaay too quickly. While Dj consistently tells me that the swine flu vaccine is manufactured almost identically to the seasonal flu vaccine, that doesn't mean it's exactly the same. It uses different "ingredients" so-to-speak, and therefore, it cannot be assumed it is just as safe as the seasonal flu vaccine and it should have to go through the same approval process of any other vaccine/medication on the market. It did not. I'm not sure I understand the basis for this statement. The swine flu vaccine was no different from any of the past several years. Every year the strains that comprise the vaccine change based upon worldwide reported cases. The only thing I'm aware of that was different this year is that there was argument over the other 2 strains to include outside of the swine strain. Maybe put another way, if you can make that statement for this past year you should also have the same concerns for every year in the past 10. *puts on tinfoil hat* That alone is going to keep you safe!!!

[LouCipherr]

Note that last year clinics, doctor's offices, and hospitals were so backed up with flu patients that they were unable to test them all for what strain they had. We still don't have accurate data on how widespread swine flu was. True, and why were the doctors offices and hospitals jam-packed with people? Because of panic propagated by the media onto the general public. I do agree that bird and swine flu have been associated in the past with a fair amount of deaths, but I think it was blow completely out of proportion this go-around. Perhaps that was justified, I don't know - I personally don't think it was, but I'm also a crackpot, so who knows, I'm probably wrong. And you're right, we do not have accurate data on how widespread it was - and that's yet another concern of mine, but a discussion for a later time. I'm not sure I understand the basis for this statement. The swine flu vaccine was no different from any of the past several years. Every year the strains that comprise the vaccine change based upon worldwide reported cases. The only thing I'm aware of that was different this year is that there was argument over the other 2 strains to include outside of the swine strain. The H1N1 vaccine its manufacturerd in a different way than the seasonal flu vaccine. While it may seem similar to the seasonal flu vaccine, there is indeed different manufacturing techniques needed to create it. Based soley on that, it still should go through the same testing, trials and approval as any other vaccine. It's not ok to say "this is made almost 99% like the seasonal flu virus" and just let it go to market. Lets put it this way: I can't make a anti-pain medication like aspirin and change only one ingredient or change one step in the manufacturing process without having to start back at square as far testing for safety and efficacy. Why was the H1N1 vaccine excluded from this? No other drug (that I personally know of) ever has been. That is my main concern with the h1n1 vaccine in particular. It was like they made the shit and said "ok, close enough, unleash it on the public - we don't need to test its safety." That alone is going to keep you safe!!! I'm starting to think that my tinfoil hat is the ONLY thing that is going to keep me safe!

[DjfunkmasterG]

To be precise, Vaccines use dead, "significantly weakened", or structurally compromised copies of the virus to be guarded against, depending on product. Actually that is incorrect. The company I work produces two flu vaccines that are both LAIV (Live Strains of the flu) These are more effective because they are live and help the immune system adapt faster... not too mention our vaccines aren't injectable... they are nasal. Trin, I work for the largest privately owned bio-pharmaceutical company in the world. We have exclusive contracts with 18 foreign governments as well as the US dept of homeland security.We are the worlds leading producer of Live Virus vaccines that are used not only on the general public but in military applications as well. our corporate offices which also house 125 research and development labs takes up 3 square blocks we currently have 6 buildings on the main campuses and 9 more scheduled for construction between now and 2020. Currently we are building a 9 story building (12 actually but 3 stories are underground and are to be BL4 labs) the new building will house an additional 200 R&D workstations as well as an additional 1800 personnel. When I started at the company in 2004 I was employee # 681, now because we are world wide we have over 15000 employees Trivia note: All the Lab scenes in Deadlands 2 were filmed at our DSC (Development Scale-Up Center) Labs, which was undergoing a $50,000,000 renovation, however it was originally schedule to be torn down in 2008, they ended up remodeling when they realized they did not have enough space at the Main Campus. While construction finishes on the new buildings, we have bought or leased 7 separate office building in Maryland just to house our personnel from non R&D and Science departments ---------- Post added at 07:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:54 PM ---------- To be precise, Vaccines use dead, "significantly weakened", or structurally compromised copies of the virus to be guarded against, depending on product. I definitely believe globalism will hasten the arrival of the next major pandemic. Especially when combined with skyrocketing antibiotic resistance. The government is doing society no favors by allowing the sort of scare tactics that have been used to date. Reminds me of the fable concerning the Multinational Drug Conglomerate Who Cried Wolf. The H1N1 vaccine its manufacturerd in a different way than the seasonal flu vaccine. While it may seem similar to the seasonal flu vaccine, there is indeed different manufacturing techniques needed to create it. Based soley on that, it still should go through the same testing, trials and approval as any other vaccine. It's not ok to say "this is made almost 99% like the seasonal flu virus" and just let it go to market. Actually LOU my company produces both vaccines the same way... That is why our product was to market the quickest because all we have to do during our cell culture and fermentation process was just change the strain, not the entire mfg of vaccine... supplement Flu Virus A or B with H1N1 at inoculation, but everything from cell growth to downstream remains the exact same, including process time.

[LouCipherr]

Actually LOU my company produces both vaccines the same way... That is why our product was to market the quickest because all we have to do during our cell culture and fermentation process was just change the strain, not the entire mfg of vaccine... supplement Flu Virus A or B with H1N1 at inoculation, but everything from cell growth to downstream remains the exact same, including process time. That makes sense Dj, and thanks for setting things straight. I stand corrected and bow to your wisdom.

[Trin]

Trin, I work for the largest privately owned bio-pharmaceutical company in the world. We have exclusive contracts with 18 foreign governments as well as the US dept of homeland security.We are the worlds leading producer of Live Virus vaccines that are used not only on the general public but in military applications as well. our corporate offices which also house 125 research and development labs takes up 3 square blocks we currently have 6 buildings on the main campuses and 9 more scheduled for construction between now and 2020. Well, then, please accept my apologies!! Really though? 16B in PROFIT off of flu vaccine? Let me just adjust my concept of a medical monster company. Oh, and by the way, YOU ARE A MONSTER YOU BIOMEDICAL APOCALYPSE WAITING TO HAPPEN... hehehehehe Edit - I know who you guys are. Holy cow, I didn't know you guys had grown that much. I take it all back... you guys are a behemoth evil giant whose sole goal is to suck the money out of the universe. Got any job openings? lol

[Wyldwraith]

Apologies, I seem to have fallen behind more recent advances in vaccine production principles. I will (sensibly, I believe) defer to Dj, as they work in said industry and is much better situated to have the details than I am as a layman. I do find these LAIVs kinda disturbing conceptually. Is there any information you can provide, or link to where I can review details related to their efficacy and safety?

[Danny]

Actually that is incorrect. The company I work produces two flu vaccines that are both LAIV (Live Strains of the flu) These are more effective because they are live and help the immune system adapt faster... not too mention our vaccines aren't injectable... they are nasal. Trin, I work for the largest privately owned bio-pharmaceutical company in the world. We have exclusive contracts with 18 foreign governments as well as the US dept of homeland security.We are the worlds leading producer of Live Virus vaccines that are used not only on the general public but in military applications as well. our corporate offices which also house 125 research and development labs takes up 3 square blocks we currently have 6 buildings on the main campuses and 9 more scheduled for construction between now and 2020. Currently we are building a 9 story building (12 actually but 3 stories are underground and are to be BL4 labs) the new building will house an additional 200 R&D workstations as well as an additional 1800 personnel. When I started at the company in 2004 I was employee # 681, now because we are world wide we have over 15000 employees Trivia note: All the Lab scenes in Deadlands 2 were filmed at our DSC (Development Scale-Up Center) Labs, which was undergoing a $50,000,000 renovation, however it was originally schedule to be torn down in 2008, they ended up remodeling when they realized they did not have enough space at the Main Campus. While construction finishes on the new buildings, we have bought or leased 7 separate office building in Maryland just to house our personnel from non R&D and Science departments ---------- Post added at 07:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:54 PM ---------- Actually LOU my company produces both vaccines the same way... That is why our product was to market the quickest because all we have to do during our cell culture and fermentation process was just change the strain, not the entire mfg of vaccine... supplement Flu Virus A or B with H1N1 at inoculation, but everything from cell growth to downstream remains the exact same, including process time.

[DjfunkmasterG]

Well, then, please accept my apologies!! Really though? 16B in PROFIT off of flu vaccine? Let me just adjust my concept of a medical monster company. Oh, and by the way, YOU ARE A MONSTER YOU BIOMEDICAL APOCALYPSE WAITING TO HAPPEN... hehehehehe Edit - I know who you guys are. Holy cow, I didn't know you guys had grown that much. I take it all back... you guys are a behemoth evil giant whose sole goal is to suck the money out of the universe. Got any job openings? lol They just hired 1500 more suckers last month ---------- Post added at 02:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:29 PM ---------- Apologies, I seem to have fallen behind more recent advances in vaccine production principles. I will (sensibly, I believe) defer to Dj, as they work in said industry and is much better situated to have the details than I am as a layman. I do find these LAIVs kinda disturbing conceptually. Is there any information you can provide, or link to where I can review details related to their efficacy and safety? Just google Flu-Mist