Hiroshima...

[Yojimbo]

There is nothing more glorious then the slaughter of ones enemies. Guess that is supposed to be funny. Not that I am saying your ancestors were guilty of anything in Nanking but SOME people like say Ward CHurchill a rabid america hating communist claims that no one in society is 100% innocent when they go to work and pay their taxes while their government perpetrates wrongs. He even called the people who died on 9/11 "little Eichmanns". Khardis, I hear you, brother, and we are cool. Extremists can exist in any given situation, and frankly they tend to see everything in terms of black and white. Someone like Ward Churchill, I would suppose would find the killing of infants in Hiroshima at the hands of American bombs justifiable on some level.

[Mike70]

Not that I am saying your ancestors were guilty of anything in Nanking but SOME people like say Ward CHurchill a rabid america hating communist claims that no one in society is 100% innocent when they go to work and pay their taxes while their government perpetrates wrongs. He even called the people who died on 9/11 "little Eichmanns". ward churchill is a wart on the ass of good academia. the man is fuc*ing embarrassment to his profession, his country and himself. let me lay out a blanket over this idiot and his "theories" - anyone that likes what this guy has to say is a sonofabitch and needs a swift kick in the dangly parts. as for hiroshima - with all the trouble in the world that we live in, i find it rather odd that people continue to get bent out of shape over something that happened 63 years ago. there have been far, far worse things perpetrated by people than hiroshima. sure my family fought in WWII against the germans and the japanese. that doesn't mean by any stretch of the imagination that i should have any personal involvement in events that happened 25+ years before i was born. we have to live in the here and now. i also don't believe in generational guilt. we are not responsible for the actions of others and certainly not responsible for actions that happened before we were born. whose ancestors did what to whom is of absolutely no concern to me. the only thing that matters is how we treat each other in the here and now.

[Legion2213]

Ok, so your government goes to war. You are against it. You and your family get bombed and killed because hey, you were living in an area occupied by the government (which you hated in the first place). Something tells me you didn't think your statement through enough, or that you did and you're simply one of those guys capable of mass-murder. Yeah that's right, I am a mass murderer. Idiot.

[SRP76]

Yeah that's right, I am a mass murderer. Holy crap! Everyone hide!

[Yojimbo]

i also don't believe in generational guilt. we are not responsible for the actions of others and certainly not responsible for actions that happened before we were born. whose ancestors did what to whom is of absolutely no concern to me. the only thing that matters is how we treat each other in the here and now. I understand what you are saying Scipio, and agree that it is far more important to live in the present. Certainly there are many issues that are of great importance today that we can lose our cool over. But it is important to remember what has happened in the past -- what worked, what did not work, what could have been done differently -- or like the cliche goes: we will be doomed to repeat the mistakes of our past. Which is to say that I don't feel that folks should feel guilt over the decisions made by the preceeding generations and I am in total agreement that, as you pointed out, what matters most is how we treat each other in the here and now. So if I appear to be bent out of shape over this issue, please forgive me for this was not my intention.

[Legion2213]

Holy crap! Everyone hide! It's true, Evil Ned sez so! That'll be because I don't cry crocodile tears about a city that was bombed decades before I was born...apparently.

[SRP76]

Things happen in wars. If your country is at war (especially on this scale, with the enitre planet caught up in it), you're at risk. Japan had been invading and attacking people for at least 9 years at that point. By that time, anyone that didn't realize they stood a chance at being obliterated was lying to himself. And any civilian that didn't know he was part of Japan was also lying to himself.

[Mike70]

Yeah that's right, I am a mass murderer. laws no! everyone head for the hills legion's done come off'n his chain! I understand what you are saying Scipio, and agree that it is far more important to live in the present. Certainly there are many issues that are of great importance today that we can lose our cool over. yes it is important to stay mindful of the past but not to the point that you become wrapped up in it.

[Yojimbo]

Things happen in wars. If your country is at war (especially on this scale, with the enitre planet caught up in it), you're at risk. Japan had been invading and attacking people for at least 9 years at that point. By that time, anyone that didn't realize they stood a chance at being obliterated was lying to himself. And any civilian that didn't know he was part of Japan was also lying to himself. Fair enough. It is true that the civilians all realized that they stood a chance at obliteration, but realistically, I do not know what they could have done to prevent this even if they disagreed with the regime. It certainly was not their fault that their government was bent on world domination, and I can say that my family in Hiroshima were not connected with the government any more than being simple subjects of the emperor. And yet they died, some may feel that it was justified, others less so and in the end they still are dead. People: I am neither blaming anyone here for the bomb, nor do I desire anyone to feel guilt about the bomb -- please keep that in mind folks. I just feel that the entire thing was very tragic for those who died. Soldiers dying - well, that is par for the course in any war. Civilians dying - to me that is ultimately tragic, whether it be in Somalia, or Dachau or Batann, or the twin towers in New York -- and this is my only point. To revel in the destruction that occured, or to be gleeful in the face of countless dead just makes me sad. yes it is important to stay mindful of the past but not to the point that you become wrapped up in it. Well said, scipio. I agree.

[Danny]

Fair enough. It is true that the civilians all realized that they stood a chance at obliteration, but realistically, I do not know what they could have done to prevent this even if they disagreed with the regime. It certainly was not their fault that their government was bent on world domination, and I can say that my family in Hiroshima were not connected with the government any more than being simple subjects of the emperor. And yet they died, some may feel that it was justified, others less so and in the end they still are dead. People: I am neither blaming anyone here for the bomb, nor do I desire anyone to feel guilt about the bomb -- please keep that in mind folks. I just feel that the entire thing was very tragic for those who died. Soldiers dying - well, that is par for the course in any war. Civilians dying - to me that is ultimately tragic, whether it be in Somalia, or Dachau or Batann, or the twin towers in New York -- and this is my only point. To revel in the destruction that occured, or to be gleeful in the face of countless dead just makes me sad. Well said, scipio. I agree. well thats good then, we can cross everyone here off the list of people who may have nuked places then seriously though it was a horrible thing to happen, i dont just mean for the people though, people always focus on people in war, not the ramifications, nukes mean radiation, theres like half a dozen spots at least on this planet that are radioactive now because of one species out of millions. I hate the notion of war, political borders at the end of the day are just invisible lines over continents, its people that cuase them, not countries, but its foolish to think a race like ours can change like that, id just much rather see armies not use weapons that can actually damage the planet itself in such a way yknow?, hell there could be aworld war 3 and instead of just wiping our own collective asses out we could probably turn the planet into an irradiated rotten applecore and poison everything else long after were gone. as for the generation thing, i dont go up to a japanese person and blame them for pearl harbour, i dont go up to german people and blame them for the holocaust. only letting uwe boll out.

[SRP76]

well thats good then, we can cross everyone here off the list of people who may have nuked places then Well, there was this one unfortunate night in Peru with a hooker, a midget, a gallon of wine and some uranium.....

[EvilNed]

Yeah that's right, I am a mass murderer. Idiot. I never said you were. I simply equated your morals to one (if you meant what you said). Personally, I find it distasteful. But I've come to realize there are some people who simply don't value human life. Sadly. And no, it's not because you don't cry crocodile tears. Grow up.

[SRP76]

But I've come to realize there are some people who simply don't value human life. I do: my own. Just like everyone else. You're not going to end something like World War II without plenty of death. It's just a matter of who will do the dying: you, or the other group. That's an easy choice. Nobody's going to allow themselves to be killed just so people decades later can give them a stamp of approval.

[EvilNed]

I do: my own. Just like everyone else. You're not going to end something like World War II without plenty of death. It's just a matter of who will do the dying: you, or the other group. That's an easy choice. Nobody's going to allow themselves to be killed just so people decades later can give them a stamp of approval. No, you're not going to end something like WW2 without ending lots of lives. However, this is NOT an excuse for you not to have any sympathy or not to recognize a tragedy when you see one. Perhaps it's just todays peoplem. They're used to seeing war from behind a television screen. Let me quote Harry Patch, one of the last living survivors of WW1: "I fell in a trench. There was a fella there. He must have been about our age. He was ripped shoulder to waist with shrapnel. I held his hand for the last 60 seconds of his life. He only said one word: 'Mother'. I didn't see her, but she was there. No doubt about it. He passed from this life into the next, and it felt as if I was in God's presence. I've never got over it. You never forget it. Never." This is just a short paragraph, but it still strikes me as something very sad and I, at least, value that human life. I value all human life. Especially when you're familiar with the horror and injustice that normal people are confronted with in times of war, just because their leaders are assholes. I find it sad that you say that you do not value human life. Perhaps that's the difference between a capitalist and a communist, eh?

[SRP76]

It happens. It was a war. This isn't a fantasy world; people die, and always will. Getting worked up about it is useless. Especially when they have no love for you, either.