A few computer questions...

[MinionZombie]

Okay, I'm now melting my brain over graphics cards, so what do you chaps think of these - and are there any special requirements to take into account for any of them? * NVidia GeForce 9800 GX2 (which I believe is essentially two GTX's in one to make 1gig?) * NVidia GeForce 9800 GTX * NVidia GTX 280 * Nvidia GTX 260 ... ATI Radeon HD4870 (seems to come in 512mb, 1gig and 2gig). ... So, thoughts, any special computer geekery knowledge to take into account? Cheers chaps.

[DjfunkmasterG]

Power consumption. Some Video cards need 26Amps on the 12 volt rail just work adequately, make sure your power supply can handle at least 30A on the 12V rail.

[MinionZombie]

Power consumption. Some Video cards need 26Amps on the 12 volt rail just work adequately, make sure your power supply can handle at least 30A on the 12V rail. Power supply in the computer you mean? Damn, all this computer research, especially the aforementioned video cards, is doing my noggin' in.

[Neil]

Power supply in the computer you mean? Damn, all this computer research, especially the aforementioned video cards, is doing my noggin' in. Basically a reasonable branded 600W power supply would be more than enough! Agree people?

[DjfunkmasterG]

Not if he wants to run those video cards. I am running (2) 9600 GT's and they both require 26Amps on the 12V rail, so I had to get a Power Supply that supplied 2 12 V rails both capable of 26Amps each at a min. MZ, you don't need 9800's (2) 9600's will work and not hurt your wallet, just make sure you power supply can handle it. Read the requirements on the cards box before you buy. Make sure you get at least a 1000W power Supply if you run two cards.

[Neil]

Not if he wants to run those video cards. I am running (2) 9600 GT's and they both require 26Amps on the 12V rail, so I had to get a Power Supply that supplied 2 12 V rails both capable of 26Amps each at a min. MZ, you don't need 9800's (2) 9600's will work and not hurt your wallet, just make sure you power supply can handle it. Read the requirements on the cards box before you buy. Make sure you get at least a 1000W power Supply if you run two cards. He doesn't need two video cards... And doesn't need anything like 1000W... For example, look at this pre-overclocked machine here... http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...ator%22%204850 Offers more than enough umpph to run anything now or in the coming couple of years... You can get great video cards for only a bit over £100 MZ... eg: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...)%20-%20Retail If you really wanted to consider two video cards (God knows why) then a quality brand 750W-800W should be more than enough. TBH - If I was getting a whole new machine I'd probably get one from the site I've linked to above. They're prebuilt/configured and covered by a warranty... For the sake of probably under a £100 it's worth it IMHO...

[MinionZombie]

I've seen those cards cheaper or the same price elsewhere. I'd be looking to get it built at a business nearby where we've had two computers built so far, and they're just down the road a bit ... well, about 20 minutes away ... and they give good prices, fully test the machines, give a one year warranty, and then they're familiar with me already so, I like that you know. As for the two card issue, that was me in my research reading about some people having two 512mb cards together (SLI mode? ) to make 1gig of video power ... but of course now there's 1gig single cards, so that would be idea really - one card, and one gig of video oomph. I'm looking to get a card that's pretty darn new (the HD4870, or indeed the HD4870-X2) because by the time I'd get the rig they'd be two to four months old, plus I figure why not - building a whole new rig from scratch with the express purpose of sheer grunt, why not go for the prize up front and then I'm sorted for far longer without needing to upgrade. Indeed, that ATI card comes in 512mb, but also 1gig and an eye-watering 2gig model that makes me nothing but rock solid downstairs. I've currently got an ATI card in my existing rig, so I'm used to ATI cards and quite like them, plus the ATI one seems to be generally a bit cheaper/bit more powerful than the NVidia ones. So power supply wise - between 800 and 1000W would be ideal for an ATI Radeon HD4870? ... What about Motherboards then - I hear there are specific types of motherboards suited to such grunt, correct? Also, I assume I could get a second 4870 1gig (if I chose the 1gig model up front) in order to double-up in this SLI mode business, if I wanted to in the future? ... Cheers for this help lads, it's all greek to me when I'm getting into it.

[Neil]

If you're worried about SLI, which personally wouldn't be, then ensure your motherboard can handle it. You'll also need to ensure your powersupply can so 800W+ probably. Personally I'd get just reasonably good card, and save yourself some money... With a good CPU, you'll be running everything at max details, at max frame rate for a good couple of years... Why buy extra power at the moment you just do not need... You can always upgrade the card/CPU later if necessary. It's far too easy to spend loads of money getting carried away on power you'll never use... How much you looking to spend out of interest? That machine I linked to above I suspect will run everything you can throw at on max settings brilliantly for a couple of years... ps: Regarding the companies who will build it for you ensure you get QUALITY components - especially the motherboard and PSU. These are the things that will fail the soonest if poor brands probably...

[DjfunkmasterG]

For smooth video editing he is going to need SLI and Two Vid Cards. Trust me I know, I am going through it now, and even with two cards I get low frame rates during editing on scenes that need color correction or have Magic Bullet color correction. The majority of the time I have no problems, but no matter how powerful the system, Video editing is probably the most taxing thing on a system next to hardcore gaming. MZ, if you are going to do editing and want smooth flawless transitions while watching the playback in a preview window or a second monitor you're going to need two vid cards. The 1000W Power supply you are going to need to operate two cards, plus the extra HDD's you are going to need. Once all of us Indie guys switch to HD, thats going to be even worse on the system. Right now I think you use Pinnacle to edit which isn't resource hogging, but Sony Vegas take a good chunk to run, as I said the video editing with plug-ins and what not are really going to slow the system down, so make sure you have the chip power, the memory, and the video cards to back it all up.

[Neil]

For smooth video editing he is going to need SLI and Two Vid Cards. Trust me I know, I am going through it now, and even with two cards I get low frame rates during editing on scenes that need color correction or have Magic Bullet color correction. The majority of the time I have no problems, but no matter how powerful the system, Video editing is probably the most taxing thing on a system next to hardcore gaming. MZ, if you are going to do editing and want smooth flawless transitions while watching the playback in a preview window or a second monitor you're going to need two vid cards. The 1000W Power supply you are going to need to operate two cards, plus the extra HDD's you are going to need. Once all of us Indie guys switch to HD, thats going to be even worse on the system. Right now I think you use Pinnacle to edit which isn't resource hogging, but Sony Vegas take a good chunk to run, as I said the video editing with plug-ins and what not are really going to slow the system down, so make sure you have the chip power, the memory, and the video cards to back it all up. I'll take your word on that, but how does general video editing use a GPU in any real way? Surely it's almost 100% CPU? I believe some transitions/3D effects can use GPU calls, but to be honest, I don't see how an uber super duper quad SLI'd set of cards would really benefit this much more than a single quality card, as the CPU has got to be king most of the time? And let's be realistic, generally if we are talking transitions, then that's going to be an instant chop from one to the other, or a fade at most possibly? If you're doing colour/chroma corrections (?), isn't that going to be CPU too? And if you really want a good PSU estimate - http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp

[DjfunkmasterG]

Color Chroma can also be linked to shading, which is done by the video card. Here is an example, say you develop a nice End Credits sequence which requires moving titles, with other kind of FX, well the video card has to be able to read those FX, especially color settings. If its plain black and white its fine, but anything above andbeyond normal raw video text and transitions because a system drainer. My CPU was running at 22% with Vegas, Adobe Audition, and Magic Bullet Going, with the end credits of Deadlands 2 playing which contains BTS photos of the making of the movie while the credits roll, the CPU stayed at 22% Usgae, but I was only acheiving 8 Frames Per Second The Video Cards were hogging up the most power and the temperature of the cards them selves was climbing, when the credits didn't play the Video cards calmed down. The CPU has mostly to do with a certain aspect of Rendering, while the video card plays a roll in this too. I have seen Rendering times increase just from switching froma 7900GT to the 9600GT's. The video cards play bigger roles in editing for film/video than most would expect. I remember one of the laptops we bought for making Deadlands 1 had a generic Intel Chipset Video driver in it and we couldn't get it to do simple video playback, so I boxed it back up and traded it for a Laptop with a 7900Go card and suddenly everything was hunky dory. (CPU and MEM specs were the same). I still don't 100% understand the link between video cards and Video editing, but I know they do help, and the more powerful the cards the less hassle you have in playback and rendering. Here are some NLE editing rigs starting at around $1599 using SONY VEGAS (they do use a single Video card with 512mb of ram on the card, but are considered basic) http://store02.prostores.com/servlet...rt=17&total=27

[MinionZombie]

Blimey, this is complex stuff isn't it... As for two video cards - is there any benefit/diffence between having say: Two 512mb cards, or One 1gig card? And indeed, one 2gig card? ... I'd be looking to get a better framerate for Magic Bullet playback, although I tend to take a chunk of footage and colour it - then edit from there, I prefer doing it that way round, hehe. At the moment my playback is quite low FPS in the preview - but the real killer is the rendering time. For example, the one layer of white diffusion and nothing more, throughout the 25 minutes of IAZM2, took 11 hours to render!!! Surely with an arse kicking rig with a beastly gfx card would get far more complex colouring rendering down to real time or real time times two? ... And yeah...I wanna play games on it.

[DjfunkmasterG]

Rendering is a combination of Processor and Video Card. I haven't heard a lot of good things about the One Gig Vid Cards, but (2) 512 mb Sli cards have been praised for speeding up Preview playback, especially with Magic Bullet. Magic Bullet is a killer when it comes to playback, I know because I go MB crazy on Dead 2.

[MinionZombie]

I haven't heard a lot of good things about the One Gig Vid Cards Purely in terms of playback with Magic Bullet, or in general? ... There is a 512mb model of the ATI HD4870, so would two of those in this SLI business (can someone explain that a bit for my dimwitted brain? ), be better over all than having a 1gig model of the ATI HD4870? You'd get the same power, but with the added bonus of improved video preview playback for Magic Bullet?

[Neil]

Color Chroma can also be linked to shading, which is done by the video card. Here is an example, say you develop a nice End Credits sequence which requires moving titles, with other kind of FX, well the video card has to be able to read those FX, especially color settings. If its plain black and white its fine, but anything above andbeyond normal raw video text and transitions because a system drainer. My CPU was running at 22% with Vegas, Adobe Audition, and Magic Bullet Going, with the end credits of Deadlands 2 playing which contains BTS photos of the making of the movie while the credits roll, the CPU stayed at 22% Usgae, but I was only acheiving 8 Frames Per Second The Video Cards were hogging up the most power and the temperature of the cards them selves was climbing, when the credits didn't play the Video cards calmed down. The CPU has mostly to do with a certain aspect of Rendering, while the video card plays a roll in this too. I have seen Rendering times increase just from switching froma 7900GT to the 9600GT's. The video cards play bigger roles in editing for film/video than most would expect. I remember one of the laptops we bought for making Deadlands 1 had a generic Intel Chipset Video driver in it and we couldn't get it to do simple video playback, so I boxed it back up and traded it for a Laptop with a 7900Go card and suddenly everything was hunky dory. (CPU and MEM specs were the same). I still don't 100% understand the link between video cards and Video editing, but I know they do help, and the more powerful the cards the less hassle you have in playback and rendering. Here are some NLE editing rigs starting at around $1599 using SONY VEGAS (they do use a single Video card with 512mb of ram on the card, but are considered basic) http://store02.prostores.com/servlet...rt=17&total=27 OK! I stand corrected then... Didn't realise modern video cards were utilised so much in modern video editing packages!