Big Daddy is too damn smart

[clanglee]

First of all. . .that was great Aces!! Good stuff there Second of all. . . .You're right Bassman, this poor horse . . this poor poor horse. Third of all. . . .As I have stated MANY times before, I don't buy the concept of the super smart zombie. Zombies are dead. . . rotting. . rotting brains can't create new synapsis. Rotting brains would make the zombies stupider over time, not smarter. But the real problem that I had with the zombies in Land was not so much Big Daddy being smart, but the other zombies learning from his behavior after a grunt and a hand gesture. Let me see If I can find my quote from the other dead horse thread. . . Not when Big Daddy told 'em not to. You see when Big Daddy grunts and grits his teeth. . .that means "lunch time is over". . .or "Duck for cover!! They are shooting at us. Can't you see?" . . . or "Here, Using the aid of this grunt and this simple hand gesture, I would very much like for you to use your rapidly decomposing brain to make an unlikely leap of intuition thereby aiding us in our endeavor to raid the human city, not to dine upon them, but simply to oust them from their homes and cause general panic, thus exacting my revenge upon a man that I have never before seen, but that I, in some mysterious way, will know is the leader of said humans! .. . and. . umm. . then I'll blow his car up."

[SRP76]

The horse-beating comes from people stubbornly trying to act like it makes a bit of sense, when it doesn't. Romero just wanted to have a zombie be the good guy, to show us that we living folk are pieces of crap. For that, he needed the zombie to think, "have feelings", and possess a bunch of skills needed to punish those horrible, horrible living people. So, he simply did it. No reason. He wanted it, so he made it.

[MoonSylver]

First of all. . .that was great Aces!! Good stuff there Second of all. . . .You're right Bassman, this poor horse . . this poor poor horse. Third of all. . . .As I have stated MANY times before, I don't buy the concept of the super smart zombie. Zombies are dead. . . rotting. . rotting brains can't create new synapsis. Rotting brains would make the zombies stupider over time, not smarter. But the real problem that I had with the zombies in Land was not so much Big Daddy being smart, but the other zombies learning from his behavior after a grunt and a hand gesture. Let me see If I can find my quote from the other dead horse thread. . . Ah, but I don't think that's it's TOO far a leap to assume that since they've been reanimated & we have nervous system activity that we have electrical impulses in the brain. I'm no brain surgeon or biology guy, but wouldn't that mean that creating new neural pathways is possible? For me, if we can accept that whatever has reanimated them has jump started their nervous system, then I can also accept that the electrical activity in their brain could be "rerouting" to those "lost" skills & memories. HOWEVER, I DO agree with you that the process of death itself & resultant decay IS going to impair the brain itself, SO I don't think you would nor SHOULD ever see any return to full capacity. They're a damaged, imperfect version of their former selves. Really, somewhere in the neighborhood of Bub or Big Daddy is about as far as I could realistically believe them progressing.

[clanglee]

I could see them maybe starting out at the level of Bub or Big Daddy, but then they would get progressively worse. How could new pathways be formed in dead flesh. Even if there is( and there obviously is) some electric activity in the nervous system, how could the dead cells replenish? There are no new cells growing. Hell. . .we living human beings get stupider with age because or brain cells generally do not replenesh. So how could a dead brain's? I dunno. . it doesn't really matter. It was a stupid concept to begin with and it was (to me) all that is wrong in a zombie film.

[MoonSylver]

How could new pathways be formed in dead flesh. Even if there is( and there obviously is) some electric activity in the nervous system, how could the dead cells replenish? Same way that they get back up from being dead in the first place, or walk around for YEARS w/ little decomposition.

[clanglee]

Same way that they get back up from being dead in the first place, or walk around for YEARS w/ little decomposition. LITTLE decomposition, not none. They are dead. No new cells. . no new neural pathways, no. And actually there were some very very decomposed and emaciated zombies. I assume the oldest and slowest. Like the one that bit Cholo. I realize that this is a silly argument. But the concept just flys in the face of what IS a zombie to me.

[bassman]

The horse-beating comes from people stubbornly trying to act like it makes a bit of sense, when it doesn't. Yeah. It doesn't make any sense to have walking dead people either, now does it? Of course it's all a matter of opinion, bubba. Jesus! I think I saw the horse move. Get it!

[Thorn]

great back story thanks for the post, really opens things up a bit and I agree would be nice if there was time or a way to put it into the film successfully.

[MoonSylver]

LITTLE decomposition, not none. They are dead. No new cells. . no new neural pathways, no. And actually there were some very very decomposed and emaciated zombies. I assume the oldest and slowest. Like the one that bit Cholo. I realize that this is a silly argument. But the concept just flys in the face of what IS a zombie to me. I understand. I guess what I was getting at is that, if I can accept a zombie in the first place, & I can accept that some mysterious something brought them back to life & that the same mysterious something has slowed the rate of decomposition to 10-12 years (if Logan is correct), then it isn't a big stretch (for me) to assume that it could allow them to slowly regain access to some of their lost skills & memories. Don't get me wrong though! I'm as about as traditional in my taste in zombies as the come! I like 'em slow, hungry, & not too bright. It's just that I can envision a Bub or Big Daddy as plausible in the context I've outlined. I don't mind a couple of this type stories as a sideline thing, but as the exception, NOT the rule.

[ZombiePizza]

In the Land commentary, GAR says that Big Daddy is about where Bub left off, but he seems more advanced to me. And if so, who taught him? Maybe Bub taught others when he got out of the caves. You know what they say about knowledge, it spreads...spreads just like the living dead. Zombies are dead. . . rotting. . rotting brains can't create new synapsis. Rotting brains would make the zombies stupider over time, not smarter. My man said stupider trying to argue against zombie intelligence...Which begs the question, are you a zombie?

[Yojimbo]

Dudes, I can buy into the concept that a ghoul would use a tool as a bludgeon. I can also believe that some residual memories would be retained, so ghouls would show up to their former churches, schools, workplaces or shopping malls. And, maybe, I can accept that a ghoul like Bub who has had his brain scientifically fiddled with to make him more docile and who has also been systematically conditioned to view his meals as coming from a bucket and not from a warm-blooded living human as being capable of learning simple "tricks" like saying "Hello Aunt Alicia" or recalling stuff like how to salute, or that a gun should be pointed at something you are pissed off at. But what I have a hard time accepting is Big Daddy leading a flock of ghouls like a rag-tag army, directing them to do this or that like a staff sgt., exhibiting the range of emotions and intuitive reasoning ability that was shown in LAND. I am a GAR fan, but I like to think that I am not a fan-boy. So as much as I do respect GAR, and admitting that there were things that I actually liked in LAND OF THE DEAD, I have to say that Big Daddy's histeronics and deductive reasoning were not among the things that made LAND work for me, and I found myself rolling my eyes and groaning practically every time he came on screen.

[clanglee]

My man said stupider trying to argue against zombie intelligence...Which begs the question, are you a zombie? word nazi Dudes, I can buy into the concept that a ghoul would use a tool as a bludgeon. I can also believe that some residual memories would be retained, so ghouls would show up to their former churches, schools, workplaces or shopping malls. And, maybe, I can accept that a ghoul like Bub who has had his brain scientifically fiddled with to make him more docile and who has also been systematically conditioned to view his meals as coming from a bucket and not from a warm-blooded living human as being capable of learning simple "tricks" like saying "Hello Aunt Alicia" or recalling stuff like how to salute, or that a gun should be pointed at something you are pissed off at. But what I have a hard time accepting is Big Daddy leading a flock of ghouls like a rag-tag army, directing them to do this or that like a staff sgt., exhibiting the range of emotions and intuitive reasoning ability that was shown in LAND. I am a GAR fan, but I like to think that I am not a fan-boy. So as much as I do respect GAR, and admitting that there were things that I actually liked in LAND OF THE DEAD, I have to say that Big Daddy's histeronics and deductive reasoning were not among the things that made LAND work for me, and I found myself rolling my eyes and groaning practically every time he came on screen. Yes!!! Preach it brother Jimbo!! Oh and yay me!!! this is my 1500th post!!

[MoonSylver]

I am a GAR fan, but I like to think that I am not a fan-boy. So as much as I do respect GAR, and admitting that there were things that I actually liked in LAND OF THE DEAD, I have to say that Big Daddy's histeronics and deductive reasoning were not among the things that made LAND work for me, and I found myself rolling my eyes and groaning practically every time he came on screen. Yeah, he was a bit over the top. My issue was not as much with the character as written (which was still a tad too much), but with the PERFORMANCE, which was WAY over the top. Sumbuddy shoulda at Clark's a$$ down in a chair, made him watch "Day" & said "THIS, is how you play a 'smart' zombie mutherf*cker!!!"

[blind2d]

how true... oh well, what's done is done, I suppose... no use whining about it now.

[bassman]

how true... oh well, what's done is done, I suppose... no use whining about it now. You must not come here often. As for the Big Daddy/Bub comparison....I agree that the actor's performance of Big Daddy was over the top at times but when you put that aside, the character is virtually the same as Bub. I don't understand why some people are okay with the idea of Bub but not with Big Daddy. They do the exact same things. The only big difference that I can think of(and it's been brought up here before) is that we never SEE Big Daddy eat. Personally, I don't think that means he never does...just that we don't see it. I remember someone here once complaining about Land and arguing that no zombie should ever HOLD or FIRE a gun. Apparently that person didn't see the two films prior to Land.