Avatar 2 & 3 (& 4?)

[bassman]

Avatar was fantastic as a theatrical technical achievement(3D), but lost any appeal it had on home video. I don't think it's necessarily an awful film, but it's just so plain and not worth anymore viewings outside of the theatrical environment. I still have faith in Cameron, so I will ignore the poor reception of the original and give the sequels a chance. After all, he has made two of the greatest sequels of all time(T2 and Aliens).

[Neil]

Avatar was fantastic as a theatrical technical achievement(3D), but lost any appeal it had on home video. I don't think it's necessarily an awful film, but it's just so plain and not worth anymore viewings outside of the theatrical environment. I still have faith in Cameron, so I will ignore the poor reception of the original and give the sequels a chance. After all, he has made two of the greatest sequels of all time(T2 and Aliens). Absolutely! And of course it was hot an aweful film, no matter what axes people have to grind I hope Cameron sees the failings of the first one, and raises the bar with the sequels!

[Danny]

I think that's a little unfair... The main story line is simple, but there certain aspects that were fairly original/clever IMHO. Neil i can never understand why you always point out criticism of movies you like as 'unfair'. More power to you for liking a movie, but it is neither 'fair' nor 'unfair' to point out a movies flaws. They are just there. Avatar was a mediocre bare bones plot that had literally been done before- by the same director no less- and the most unimaginative of fantasy video games put its 'magical breathtaking world' to shame. It is a film devoid of originality and character, you cannot sincerely judge that appraisal as unfair. It is overly critical at best. Otherwise that defines criticism as a varying series of degrees of 'allowed' or 'not allowed' on grounds of being a meanie to the film in case you hurt its feelings? The rest of my opinion however is just that, opinion. Avatar had less depth to its 'message' than a childrens saturday morning cartoon show. There are literally deeper, more nuanced allegories to real world events in my little pony or the transformers. Be it the scarred drill sergeant taking sheer gargamel level glee in his military pogrom as he loves the smell of napalm in the morning, the rednecks and their shock and awe yuk yuks, or the overwhelming message of white guilt and more besides. It is obnoxious, shallow and obscenely insulting to you the audience. This is what the creators think you are at the level of. That this is the capabilities of your simple infantile mind as you graze on popcorn and stare in rows like so much mindless cattle. It is at best a morality tale for children ages 3 to 7. Such a level of poorly constructed tripe is usually only defended with such gems as 'not everything has to try to be amazing" or "b-but its an experience!"- though of what they cant quite say, or "you cant switch your mind off for 2 hours?!" or my favourite "how dare you dislike james cameron, you must be saying terminator and alien are bad as well then!". The kicker of course is the idea of 'defending' a film to -or from- people who disliked it is crazy. A film is a piece of media, it is not a frail maiden requiring the staunch defence of the people- many of which are not defending the film at all, they are defending something from the guy who made the terminator and that is a very notable distinction. It is a self contained thing, Its made and it is out their to be consumed, broken down and reflected on. Nothing will change what it is and an individuals reaction to said media is, naturally, individual. Avatar treats you like a child, a stupid child at that. It IS incredibly insulting and the worst part is how it beats you over the head with this notion. It is not 'unfair' to say so. I am not making the film feel bad. The film will not cry itself to sleep tonight. If you like a film you say why you did. If you didnt like it you say why you did not. thats a critical take on enjoyment or lack of enjoyment in a film. Telling people they are 'wrong' or 'unfair' for liking or disliking a film is a frankly horrible way to talk about film as a medium. and lets be honest its far more 'you arent allowed to be negative' nowadays what with all the viral marketing instilling the brand loyalty witchunts on forums today in which such vile heretics as myself can only be one of the dreaded 'haters' who are the fucking Nazgul of the internet right now...

[Neil]

Neil i can never understand why you always point out criticism of movies you like as 'unfair'. I would point out irrational opinions of films/directors I like/dislike the same.... When people level the kinds of opinions ("$hit" and "rubbish") at individuals/productions clearly not meriting it, what else am I suppose to say. Was Avatar one of the best, most glorious epic scifi flicks ever? No... What it a perfectly watchable scifi flick? Of course... Let me use Mission Impossible 2 as an example. For me it was a truly clunky film, which actually had me groaning at times. I really didn't enjoy it, and find it painful to watch. I know other people enjoy it though. And for all its faults, it's a reasonably well made bit of action, so there's no way on earth I'd level the kind of descriptions people are using for some of the other films being discussed here, because I know it simply would not be fair or rational to do so... To me it seems some people feel they need to up their negativity in relation to something's success... Didn't enjoy it? Fine... Worse piece of fetid film ever made? Course not... Average or forgettable at worse surely?

[Danny]

I would point out irrational opinions of films/directors I like/dislike the same.... When people level the kinds of opinions ("$hit" and "rubbish") at individuals/productions clearly not meriting it, what else am I suppose to say. You say why you think they are wrong. simple as that. You say 'well okay, heres my counterpoints why i personally loved it". Thats debating media. Its no bad thing, its a fantastic thing thats been pushed aside in favour of 'dont be mean to the film'. If you love avatar you say why you do, thats you opinion, one just as valid of explanation as my own. Something far more engaging and expressive than 'i think your negative opinion is unfair'.

[Neil]

You say 'well okay, heres my counterpoints why i personally loved it". You clearly didn't read my point(s) then, as it has nothing to do with that... The point is people who cry "crap", "$hit" and "rubbish" to material/individuals clearly not deserving it are simply crying out "wolf!" IMHO. If we take Avatar, even if assume it's entirely aimed at children, and it's story is over simplistic and some of the dialogue is poor. That at worst makes it not suitable or entertaining for some of you. It does not in any way make it a turd!? Surely to qualify for some of the abuse being levelled at it, it should have been a poorly made, incomprehensible mess of a film, which clearly it was not. At the very least it was a technically well put togethor coherant film, even story/script aside. Yet some individuals are dragging it through the mud for reasons that absolutely bemuse me... I suspect some of the individuals have levelled more harsh words at Avatar than any other film made... and could this be simply because it was the most successful ever made, which unfortunately they'd didn't like? How is that logical, fair or founded? "WOLF!" I guess we're just dealing with different peoples way of making their opinion known/felt. If some of you feel Avatar is that dire, fair enough...

[EvilNed]

I would point out irrational opinions of films/directors I like/dislike the same.... When people level the kinds of opinions ("$hit" and "rubbish") at individuals/productions clearly not meriting it, what else am I suppose to say. Was Avatar one of the best, most glorious epic scifi flicks ever? No... What it a perfectly watchable scifi flick? Of course... Let me use Mission Impossible 2 as an example. For me it was a truly clunky film, which actually had me groaning at times. I really didn't enjoy it, and find it painful to watch. I know other people enjoy it though. And for all its faults, it's a reasonably well made bit of action, so there's no way on earth I'd level the kind of descriptions people are using for some of the other films being discussed here, because I know it simply would not be fair or rational to do so... To me it seems some people feel they need to up their negativity in relation to something's success... Didn't enjoy it? Fine... Worse piece of fetid film ever made? Course not... Average or forgettable at worse surely? My problem with this attitude is that you seem to think there is a "right" and "wrong" here. There isn't. MI:2 is another film I turned off after 15 minutes because it was so bad I couldn't stand it. Avatar I didn't turn off, because I went to see it in the cinema. But still, it's a horrible film with flaws all over the place. How can you not see how anyone could find this less than "average"?

[AcesandEights]

MI:2 is another film I turned off after 15 minutes because it was so bad I couldn't stand it. MI:2 was so bad it was great. It taught me a lot about mounted motorcycle combat that Knightriders left out, especially the spring jump from the saddle.

[LouCipherr]

I saw the first in 3D, which was fine because I was thoroughly baked and it looked really great in 3D, no doubt. I have a whole new-found respect for you, Ron. I think baked is the only way this movie could be enjoyed. The only thing that concerns me about future Avatar films is this green ( 'save the planet') theme Cameron seems to be implying they will have?! I'm scared it will come across poorly ie: Might feel like propaganda rather than an escapism! Wait, so you don't feel like the first Avatar did this exact same thing? I wouldn't be surprised if Al Gore became producer of the next Avatar films.

[AcesandEights]

Wait, so you don't feel like the first Avatar did this exact same thing? That didn't bother me so much, as Avatar is essentially a kiddie film.

[LouCipherr]

[Neil]

MI:2 was so bad it was great. It taught me a lot about mounted motorcycle combat that Knightriders left out, especially the spring jump from the saddle. Don't forget the important lessons in white smoke and doves! -- -------- Post added at 09:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:50 PM ---------- My problem with this attitude is that you seem to think there is a "right" and "wrong" here. There isn't. MI:2 is another film I turned off after 15 minutes because it was so bad I couldn't stand it. Avatar I didn't turn off, because I went to see it in the cinema. But still, it's a horrible film with flaws all over the place. How can you not see how anyone could find this less than "average"? Because it's not even "less than average" we're talking about, it's people suggesting it's not even around the middle of all films ever made, but infact at the bottom. Don't you know, it's a "$hit" film... It's "rubbish"... Oh... and now "horrible"... Rediculous!

[Danny]

Because it's not even "less than average" we're talking about, it's people suggesting it's not even around the middle of all films ever made, but infact at the bottom. Don't you know, it's a "$hit" film... It's "rubbish"... Oh... and now "horrible"... Rediculous! i know people who feel exactly the same way about pink flamingos, doesnt mean its anything more than personal taste though.

[rongravy]

I have a whole new-found respect for you, Ron. I think baked is the only way this movie could be enjoyed. Ehhhh, I'm sure I'll find a way to foul up that before we're through. Also, as I'm the Enhancement Smoker type, I try to see all movies baked. Then I try to see how long I can stay out of everyone's nachos and popcorn. As many movies as I see, I should get paid for this kind of grunt work. Heck, pay me in weed and free passes. I won't complain.

[Sammich]

i know people who feel exactly the same way about pink flamingos, doesnt mean its anything more than personal taste though. Pink Flamingos is a masterpiece. John Waters talent for capturing disturbing strangeness on film is pure genius.