TWD 3x15 "This Sorrowful Life" episode discussion...**SPOILERS WITHIN**

[kidgloves]

Brilliant episode. Lucky Im off sick at the moment and can stay up so late. Also huge DAWN reference when Merle is messing about in the car and Michonne is shouting at him. I was whispering (its late here) "GET ITS HEAD UP". Bed now. Goodnight.

[Christopher Jon]

Now, we're onto the finale, and   The Gov's side suddenly manifests a frigging GRENADE LAUNCHER. C'mon, WHY would a NATIONAL GUARD UNIT even HAVE such ordinance? Yet ANOTHER artificial and wholly unneeded advantage for Team Evil. The mounted .50 wasn't ENOUGH? . The spoiler. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_National_Guard Georgia NG have a lot of cool stuff.

[JoshMM]

First post here. I thought the reference was awesome! --Josh

[babomb]

I wasn't as dissapointed as I thought I'd be in this episode. It took a couple turns I didn't expect. Only thing i didn't like was how they use some of the small details in things to set the stage for a character to misconstrue in order to drive a sub-plot. But they're nitpicks, like the way overused "just as he has has him in his sights, someone steps in front of the bullet and accidentally saves him". I'm interested to see how the finale plays out though. They're making it seem like they flee the prison just as woodbury arrives. But then the name of the finale suggests otherwise. But if they flee, what will they use to make the finale a great episode?

[sandrock74]

They're making it seem like they flee the prison just as woodbury arrives. But then the name of the finale suggests otherwise. But if they flee, what will they use to make the finale a great episode? A prison full of Walkers awaiting the Governor and his men and Rick and the gang head over to Woodbury to take it over! LOL

[babomb]

A prison full of Walkers awaiting the Governor and his men and Rick and the gang head over to Woodbury to take it over! LOL That'd be cool. I just can't see it happening that way though. At least, I can't see prison group going to woodbury. Unless they go looking for Darryl and as coincidence has it, the Gov and his men are heading to the prison at the same time but the 2 groups don't see each other. - - - Updated - - - Merle's gone, but I'm guessing Daryl is going to go all Rambo on their asses, especially when Guv lets him know he's the one who personally offed his brother, and we all know he's going to. . I'm not too sure about that. I think Daryl is gonna think there was a conspiracy amongst the prison group to get rid of Merle. You have the scene where Rick says they need Merle, and Daryl says he'll talk to him, but Rick says he'll do it alone. And since Rick didn't tell anyone but Herschel right off the bat about the Gov's offer, Daryl is suspicious. Then he sees Michonne on his way back and asks if she killed him. Then he finds Merle and he's a walker. Merle had his 2 fingers bit off, and Glen cut 2 fingers off that female walker for the ring. Daryl might see those fingers that Glen cut off on his way into the prison and assume they're Merle's, and think Micchonne killed him and that Rick gave the order. At the very least, IMO, he'll blame Micchonne.

[Rottedfreak]

Awesome episode, it might be the best one this season.

[Wyldwraith]

There was a point missed, I wasn't referencing the possibility of a National Guard unit being initially OUTFITTED with such ordinance, but rather THEIR STILL BEING AMMO FOR SAID DEVICE BY THIS POINT. C'mon now, things got SO bad that the higher-ups authorized AIR STRIKES in DOWNTOWN ATLANTA, KNOWING there had to be at minimum still tens of thousands of uninfected people down there they'd be slaughtering. Something like   a grenade launcher would've been used up hardcore on dense shoulder-to-should hordes blanketing entire streets and shambling toward the position a unit like they would've been ordered to hold, or a structure they'd been ordered to secure (like an evacuation station). Then, given how much trouble a small and relatively silent (compared to a convoy of big diesel trucks, a couple with air brakes) convoy of cars had avoiding the hordes all over the area before Rick & Co. found the prison, you can't tell me you buy the idea the National Guard unit didn't run into two dozen Walkers for every Walker that Rick & Co. saw. Ergo, even if said ordinance wasn't used up while still on active duty, it quite likely would've been depleted in the time after, once they were on their own. Think of the Highway Horde migrating through. Unlike Rick & Co., the National Guard couldn't very well make 4x as many people disappear...so that likely would've become a conflict-situation. Yet all of this is moot compared to the argument for basic story balance. The Governor had 10x more troops, a vehicle mounted .50 machinegun with TONS of ammo, and equivalent or superior military-grade weaponry and equipment with which to outfit his people. It was ALREADY a David Vs. Goliath matchup. With that ordinance in the mix its gone from David Vs. Goliath to Bambi Vs. Godzilla. They did the whole desperate flight thing last season. Even if circumstances turn out such that they don't in fact get forced to flee this season, they decided that it would be better for the Governor's forces to have utterly indomitable fire superiority. Frankly, I'm TIRED of the protagonists never catching ONE TENTH the breaks Woodbury and the Governor receive non-stop. It makes an evil Mary-Sue of the Governor, and as such makes me completely stop caring about what the Governor or his people actually do, or how they do it....it's been so lopsided, so the Gov-has-all-cards for so long, that even a sudden turnaround and defeat of the Governor at this point would feel nearly as contrived as Woodbury's capabilities have been. As I said before, I'm strongly leaning towards skipping this Season's finale and just watching it when they flood AMC with the previous season before the beginning of next season. For me at least there was just no saving this season. Even substantial improvements in interpersonal relationship interactions, overall atmosphere and a strong main-character death-sequence couldn't begin to salvage it for me. In my mind at least Season 3 is a waste, and the series would be better of retconning it into highlit necessary plot points, dispense with 95% of it, and just weld Season 2, plus say the first couple episodes of Season 3, straight on to the beginning of Season 4. I haven't lost my faith in the series. Just the clusterf*ck that's been the Woodbury/Prison conflict. IMO they couldn't have failed worse, especially this season half, then if they'd set out with the stated goal of sabotaging the show. Moderate improvement in non-critical areas didn't save it for me, but it did give me a measure of hope that once they've finished slogging through this butchered story, there might be light at the end of the tunnel. It just KILLS ME, that they have all the tools, the right cast, excellent settings, brilliant zombies, and they can't manage to make the main plotline enjoyable, because in each and every case where there was a possibility to shift direction and plough under a storyline that wasn't working, they instead chose to use yet another fiat-plot-device to perpetuate the worst elements and minimize the best. The Woodbury Vs. Team Prison conflict could have been AMAZING, gut-wrenching stuff...but they got too caught up in puffing up the Governor and wasting SO MUCH precious time on the boring-tastic endless flashovers to Woodbury. It's ironic if the rumors are true. Mazzara TRIED to sabotage TWD, but the people charged with saving it from him were so ineffectual that it's very difficult to tell whether the sabotage ever stopped.

[kidgloves]

Its taken all season but when the Gov shot Merle in the chest, and you could tell from the angle, it finally made me hate that SOB. That was just out of order.

[facestabber]

Wylde David vs Goliath sells. Improbable odds. Rocky vs Apollo. Especially now that Rick stood up and dissolved the Ricktatorship. He is now even more loved. Realizing that he was acting in the Gov role for his group and stepping down. I agree with you that the deck does get rediculously stacked in Gov's favor. I think he just lost 8 men which is a sizeable percentage of his force and yet he will show no hardship by it and follow through with attack. I know where you are coming from but I just disagree about the item you speak of. It a great anti structure/vehicle stopping weapon but I can see the ammo being horded for strictly defensive and standoff capability. Sure it would clear crowds from an elevated position but there are more efficient weapons when fighting at or near the same level as unarmed, slow moving, full value targets. At some point military units that get cut off are not going to be offensively seeking and attacking hordes. Now that I think of it the .50 in downtown Atlanta that Rick went by still had a live belt fed so I'm sure there is some abandoned heavy hitters out there. The ammo they have may or may not get replenished so in real world scenario there would be alot of semi auto fire to remove threats to them and not the populace. And yes in TWD universe they will always go full auto because well it just friggin looks cooler. And you have to know some pyrotechnic guy needed to make a big bang in the finally ala barn burn. You should see the ammo I horde I think you should watch Wylde. My gut tells me team prison is going to be better prepared as we have been led to believe. I really wish they would make the finally at minimum 1.5 hours. Not sure how they pack in all the plot lines going. Milton Andrea, Daryl separated and a war? To my liking they nailed the finale last season so I will keep the faith.

[MinionZombie]

A spiffing episode - Nicotero's strongest as a Director, and another very fine piece of writing from Gimple - the show is indeed in very good hands. Loved the Dawn reference, of course, and I was very pleased with the motel scene - that's how to stage a zombie attack that works. Michonne is tied up and weapon-free, Merle is hot-wiring a car that's making an awful racket (therefore he can't hear Michonne), and the zombies appear from rooms and around unexplored corners. That worked very well indeed for me ... and did anyone else wonder if Merle got bit during his encounter with the car attack walker? I thought so for a brief moment, but the way it went he wasn't by the looks of it. A very strong episode that wraps up an entire arc for Merle, and he went through all the versions of himself, and ultimately - in spite of all his considerable flaws - you respected him at the end. I knew he was going to come back as a walker for Daryl to find when we didn't see him getting shot, but even still, the reveal packed a punch. Poor old Daryl... Wyld - not watch the finale? Now you're just being totally ridiculous. You make zero sense to me, my friend. So yeah - I was very pleased with this episode. It wrangled things back on-track after the issues of 3x14 - while this episode delays the battle, it does so for a very good reason, and we're giving something strong and meaningful in exchange. As I said last week, 3x13 and 3x14 could have been handled in one episode's worth with more efficient writing and a tighter structural organisation from right back when they were mapping out the episodes in the writer's room. Even still, 3x14 has been - for me - the only episode that legitimately disappointed, even thought I still liked numerous things about it. Regarding the previews of next week's episode...   It looks like Team Prison let them walk right in, The Governor seems to have brought his strongest fighters (after suffering losses thanks to Merle) so the odds aren't too overwhelming (about 30 of them all-in roughly?) ... it also looks like they're readying themselves to leave the prison. They've packed up their stuff and loaded the vehicles. Wow... just... wow. Is it a bad thing that I teared up at the end there? It certainly landed strong, didn't it? Reedus did a fantastic job ... really felt for Daryl. So who else spotted the Dawn reference? After this episode I can see the show is in good hands next season. I loved it. Very emotional and who would have thought Merle's actions would have such an emotional impact. Great stuff. He was pretty badass up until his end too. Bravo. I caught the Dawn reference immediately too! Very good hands, I'd say. Hurd mentioned that his style is in a similar vein to Darabont, in terms of characters etc, so that's a good thing. I still think Mazzara did a good job with season 3 over all, despite the pace & structural organisation of the back half slipping below par in certain episodes ... I really don't know what to think or feel about all the various rumours flying about regarding his departure, so best not to speculate and dream up possibilities. Gimple though - yes - him and The Walking Dead seem to be a good mix. This episode and 3x12 were both fantastic episodes. Yea so Rick wasnt going to go through with the Michonne handoff but at the slimest chance he would at that point I had went from certified Rick fanboy to completely done with him. Gray areas I understand but there are differences between right and wrong. Very disappointed in Daryl for not having the 'balls' to tell Rick to pound sand. Motorhead in TWD.....hell to the yea. Lemmy seems like a Merle kind of guy. Speaking of Merle, gotta give credit to the writers for taking the last 10 minutes of an episode and taking Merle from a hated scumbag to an empathetic hero. In the end the good that was in him came forward. Im actually glad he went out like that. Happy to see him drop Ben. Sad to see a surprise Ninja zombie ruin more of his destruction. Michonne, well I just love her more and more. Danai is playing the character wonderfully Really bored of Glen anymore. I loved season 1 Glen but the love crap just doesnt work for me but whatever. 1) I was a tad confused, seeing as at the end of 3x13 Rick seemed to be sorted on not giving up Michonne because he knew The Governor would never let the matter be settled by giving up Michonne ... he seemed to have made up his mind there ... it would have worked a touch better (particularly in the context of this episode) if it had been a tad more vague ... or maybe I'm remembering that scene between him and Hershel differently? I certainly liked the moral evolution to Rick in this episode - from Ricktator willing to sacrifice one of their own (albeit a new member) for a dodgy chance at peace, to a leader of a democratic "we are the greater good" group. 2) Yes. Merle in the car drinking up was a great little bit. I enjoyed that very much. Did you also notice that Zombie Merle ate Ben? Double punishment for the little scrote, haha! Although I wouldn't agree so much on defining that walker as a "ninja" - he lead a bunch to that area, there were multiple entrances to that building, and with all the noise and action you wouldn't notice one creeping up on you all that easily. 3) Michonne is really rocking it. I chuckle at how hateful some folks on here were about her in the earlier episodes ... they went rather quiet after "Clear". I always knew they were growing Michonne on the show and that she'd come into her own - and here we are. 4) You heartless bastard. Its taken all season but when the Gov shot Merle in the chest, and you could tell from the angle, it finally made me hate that SOB. That was just out of order. I know, what a dickhead, right? Doubly evil in that he disregarded his own rule about destroying the brain - the git shot Merle in the chest deliberately for added punishment. The make-up was pretty good on Zombie Merle too ... perhaps a teeny weeny touch too gone around the flesh around the eyes, but barely a whisker over ... it was important for him to look pretty close to how Daryl knows him to be. I loved the close up of the eyes - Nicotero insisted on that being in there - and it works beautifully, it hooks we viewers right into Daryl's emotional impact. Oh yes - I've been up in the memes, of course: http://forum.homepageofthedead.com/s...885#post295885 ... A question: How do you think Merle's death will affect Daryl?

[Andy]

So here's a question.. Was merle supposed to be getting "phonecalls" aswell? (in the kitchen he's hid the phone from daryl, then lifts it and puts it in his bag..)

[JonOfTheShred]

Merle had his 2 fingers bit off, and Glen cut 2 fingers off that female walker for the ring. Daryl might see those fingers that Glen cut off on his way into the prison and assume they're Merle's I was just rewatching the episode and signed in to make note of that. I thought it was cool how Glenns proposal and Merles redemption both involved the pinky and ring finger being removed, cool "juxtaposition" you could say. Didn't consider the possibility of Daryl seeing those fingers and thinking Rick set up Merle, but I don't think Daryl will believe in any 'conspiracy' against Merle for too long, considering Rick and him were sprinting around looking for the two before they left. The cars alarm remains on, but at a dulled level - thought that was a nice touch. When Merle lets Michonne out, you can still hear the alarm very faintly. Was I the only person hoping Merle escaped? He's been one of my favorite characters since Season 1, and he was one of the toughest characters on the show. (It was rather irritating how easily the Governor seemed to take him down in a one-on-one conflict. Merle could have just shanked him with his knife hand.) - - - Updated - - - Someone earlier mentioned the show getting a boosted runtime for the finale....I totally agree with that. Should be 2 hours! If Mad Men gets a 2 hour premiere, why can't Walking Dead get a 2 hour season finale? They could wrap up this arc perfect in that amount of time, with an extremely tense, slow burn for the first 30 minutes leading to the fight for an hour and 15 and then 15 minutes of aftermath. So here's a question.. Was merle supposed to be getting "phonecalls" aswell? (in the kitchen he's hid the phone from daryl, then lifts it and puts it in his bag..) He was using the phone for the wire to wrap Michonne with, cause she could "chew through the rope."

[MinionZombie]

Regarding the telephone (in the generator room - not the kitchen ) - yeah, I was thinking "wtf is up with that?" too, but I guess facestabber explained it well enough. Perhaps it was a weird little reference to earlier events... As for the fingers - Glenn would toss those away within minutes/seconds of chopping them off ... plus they're female fingers that'll look nothing like they are on Merle ... and he'd probably be more consumed by the whole 'zombie brother' thing than seeing he's got two fingers off ... which I thought was a nice touch in the fight. It shows how nasty The Governor is, but it was also darkly comical, the poor bugger went out with two fingers, a thumb, and a knife in place of an entire hand. Regarding runtime for a finale - yes, I'd very much like to see extended episodes for season premieres and finales - however Mad Men's premiere on April 7th is just two individual episodes back-to-back (like it was last year), and not an extended episode.

[facestabber]

So here's a question.. Was merle supposed to be getting "phonecalls" aswell? (in the kitchen he's hid the phone from daryl, then lifts it and puts it in his bag..) Not sure if your joking but Merle wanted the wire cord from the phone to restrain Michonne. I've been waiting for ya to respond minion. Good stuff. ****sorry didn't refresh page before responding to Andy. It was already answered