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Thread: I give up. The world is doomed.

  1. #16
    Chasing Prey MissJacksonCA's Avatar
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    I think its not anti Christian so much as its against people that believe despite evidence... people who in a sense have blind faith for God...
    You smell that? That's the smell of spring, and I love it. You know what I love to do in spring? I love to come out into the woods, to walk amongst the budding trees, to smell and taste the hint of renewal that hovers in the air like a heady perfume, and to listen to the song of the birds who have returned from their long sojourn south. And bury the people I killed during the winter...

    http://media.movies.ign.com/media/84...d_1882969.html

  2. #17
    Walking Dead mista_mo's Avatar
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    Christian means christ follower

    when someone insults jesus it insults christianity as he is the literal head of our faith, and insults us.

  3. #18
    Chasing Prey MissJacksonCA's Avatar
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    There is much debate over Christianity... and Jesus, etc... so are you saying those of a different belief are an affont to Jesus and therefore it hurts you and all Christians? I dont think so at least... I accept all views... if I believed in God its what he'd want me to do... I just dont believe in everyone elses view...
    You smell that? That's the smell of spring, and I love it. You know what I love to do in spring? I love to come out into the woods, to walk amongst the budding trees, to smell and taste the hint of renewal that hovers in the air like a heady perfume, and to listen to the song of the birds who have returned from their long sojourn south. And bury the people I killed during the winter...

    http://media.movies.ign.com/media/84...d_1882969.html

  4. #19
    Walking Dead mista_mo's Avatar
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    no, the way things are said. I hoenstly do not care if such and such isn't christian or not. It's not my problem, and i will not go and try and enforce my beliefs on someoen else.

    but acting like a dick (not you) about christians in general is what pisses me off. All these threads devolve into is a big ol' flame against christians, and sorry, but it's bs.

  5. #20
    Rising Terran's Avatar
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    But what if someone said...."other than the bible is there any evidence that someone named "Christ" even existed"?(there are many familiars)


    Once that question is asked?.....which of the many possible fictional dieties would one pray to?



    The christian sway to these questions just reflect the western culture that dominates....
    Last edited by Terran; 18-Aug-2007 at 05:25 AM.
    ______________________________
    They made us too smart, too quick, and too many. We are suffering for the mistakes they made because when the end comes, all that will be left is us. That's why they hate us.

    There is no target consumer! Only targets. Targets that will tremble as their new master hands down edicts in my glorious booming voice!

  6. #21
    Zombie Flesh Eater EvilNed's Avatar
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    There is evidence that Christ existed. There's no evidence that he preached or walked on water, just that there was a guy called christ, who was crucified. And I stand by everything I said. Every civil rights movement has been opposed by these same ignorant christians who I spoke with yesterday. Think about it.

    Oh, and about the dinosaurs. With one of the guys I had a small discussion about Saint Geroge. I was equating lots of the stuff in the Bible to the legend of Saint George, saying how Saint George never fought a dragon and that was of course just embellishment of his lifes story. I said the bible was like that: Mostly embellishment. He then argued that perhaps there had been some kind of monster, or surviving dinosaur (65 million years on it's own, my calculations, not his) that Saint George must have fought. But elsewhere he disapproved of evolution, so I don't know. Maybe it had survived the flood in his book!

  7. #22
    certified super rad Danny's Avatar
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    theres a big difference between christians world wide though ya know and even if i think its bollocks a christian IS going to argue the whole creationism thign cus its pretty much disproving the literal depiction of the bible, so yknow thats defending there faith ,so its just human nature, the one thing that pisses me off personally is out of all my freinds, including a hindu and a muslim guy, theres this old school english christian guy, hes a great guy but a while back i was moving conrete blocks with them as a favour to my grandad and i dropped one on my foot, so naturally i yell into the sky "JESUS CHRIST ALLMIGHTY!!", as you would when a bigass concrete slab lands on your foot, and he got red faced and threw a **** fit about me calling blaphemes.
    i know thats nothing to do with christians on a personal level, but being raised in a prodmoniantly chrisitian country icve picked up curses lie "bloody hell" and the like, so if im dropping something made of concrete onto my person i dont think it matters if i blaspheme in pain fueled rage for a minute as much as it was made out by him to be a big deal.


  8. #23
    Rising Terran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilNed View Post
    There is evidence that Christ existed.
    Evidence and documentation other than the bible....?.... You should look that up youll be surprised at what you find....

    Or maybe see the movie The God Who Wasn't There (2005)
    http://www.amazon.com/God-Who-Wasnt-...7449833&sr=8-1
    http://www.thegodmovie.com/luigicascioli/
    Heres a good clip from it


    See the other parts if this interests you .....because its pretty damning and I havent heard any retalitory claims....
    From the "The Heirophant's Proselytizer Questionnaire".....


    According to the Gospels, from the Christian standpoint, Jesus was the most important person to ever live. From the Roman standpoint, Jesus was a huge pain in the ass because of his political activities. Explain why nothing was written about his life for over thirty years after his death, and nothing except the Gospels was written until the third century CE.

    Explain why you believe a person whose life is so poorly documented was even ever born.

    Why is it that the life of Jesus was so similar to the lives of pagan Christs, particularly Herakles, Dionysios, and Asklepios?
    Last edited by Terran; 18-Aug-2007 at 03:31 PM.
    ______________________________
    They made us too smart, too quick, and too many. We are suffering for the mistakes they made because when the end comes, all that will be left is us. That's why they hate us.

    There is no target consumer! Only targets. Targets that will tremble as their new master hands down edicts in my glorious booming voice!

  9. #24
    certified super rad Danny's Avatar
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    to be fair how often has your life been "documented" or mine, or anyones?
    and we live in a world were our techonlogical development is unbelievable from the standpoint of that time.

    i dont belive in god or the devil but it aint impossible the guy existed. just not as a mistical avatar but as a person with unqiue world views, for the time i mean.


  10. #25
    Rising Terran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellsing View Post
    i dont belive in god or the devil but it aint impossible the guy existed. just not as a mistical avatar but as a person with unqiue world views, for the time i mean.
    Did you watch the clip?....

    I guess we should be saying...it is not impossible that Hercules existed....or Zeus in human form or any of those mythical people....just as plausible as jesus....

    When you start examining the myth of Jesus in detail it really starts to fall apart...


    Heres part 3

    Last edited by Terran; 18-Aug-2007 at 03:38 PM.
    ______________________________
    They made us too smart, too quick, and too many. We are suffering for the mistakes they made because when the end comes, all that will be left is us. That's why they hate us.

    There is no target consumer! Only targets. Targets that will tremble as their new master hands down edicts in my glorious booming voice!

  11. #26
    Rising kortick's Avatar
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    To respond to your original post ned

    they were correct in saying that jesus refuted the do not work on
    sundays

    in the new testament it is where he is in a town called bethesda
    and there is a healing pool that stirs every so often
    and the lame would lie on thier mats near the pool
    but on sundays they could not pick up thier mats and
    carry then too the pool (natural spring) and soak in it
    because moving the mat would be considered work

    when jesus came upon this and saw the law keepers
    were not allowing this under the reasoning it was against gods will
    he spoke "take up thy mats and walk"
    (if you are a pink floyd fan you will now realise where the
    title to the song "take up thy stethocope and walk" came from)

    so yes jesus did in the bible refute the no work on sunday

    i understand your not being a person of faith
    and that is your choice
    and maybe these people were not too bright on things

    but dont rule out things you dont understand completely

    terran you love your science
    you know i admire your intellect
    there is also a human factor too
    dont lose sight of that
    no matter what your belief in a god is
    science doesnt have all the answers
    neither do some sad old men on you tube

    notice i am not trying to make people believe or disbelieve
    that is up to you

    and mo hang in there buddy
    i understand

  12. #27
    Zombie Flesh Eater EvilNed's Avatar
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    kortick, then jesus, like the rest of the bible, is a hypocrite. For he also said, and I quote:

    "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." Luke 16:17 NAB

    Or maybe he did not say this, or maybe he did not order them to move their mats. Perhaps this is just embellishment on part of the writers. But still, this is what Jesus did according to the bible.

    Terran, that was quite an interesting clip. I was almost certain I'd heard that Jesus cropped up in a few roman tax records, but after a brief (I admit, brief) search I found nothing to suggest that he actually did. He might still, I'll look further.

  13. #28
    Rising kortick's Avatar
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    Ned
    I am not trying to get you to change your beliefs about anything

    do you even know what laws jesus meant when he said that?

    you quote the new testament so you should know what he was referring to

    if so how does this make him a hypocrite?

    your anger towards someone who is the embodiment of pure love
    and sacrifice for others isnt sensible

    wheter you beleive or not isnt for me to try to influence

    you have to admit that jesus was not a figure for evil
    maybe religions have used him in ways that he never wanted
    but they will have to pay for that
    jesus is not the enemy, quite the opposite
    it is man who is , just as it has always been

    i am not going to quote scripture to you
    that is too much like charles manson

    belive what you want
    but have peace in your life
    no matter where you get it from
    thats all i really want for you

  14. #29
    Chasing Prey Yojimbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mista_mo View Post
    no, the way things are said. I hoenstly do not care if such and such isn't christian or not. It's not my problem, and i will not go and try and enforce my beliefs on someoen else.

    but acting like a dick (not you) about christians in general is what pisses me off. All these threads devolve into is a big ol' flame against christians, and sorry, but it's bs.
    If I am one of those that has insulted you, please accept my apology. What I said was not meant personally against you, only against those who are intolerant of opposing viewpoints and philosophies.

    I concede that there is a great deal of good in the Christian religion, as there is good in practically all the religions that exist.

    I understand what you mean about threads pertaining to religious arguments easily devolve into an insult fest. Certainly that is not productive and does nothing but anger people on both sides. I could be wrong, but with all due respect it would seem to me stating that it is bs and that people are acting "like a dick" is similarly counterproductive as well, and perhaps without that sort of rhetoric these threads would not devolve into an insult fest.

    Believe me, I do understand where your anger comes from. You feel that this thread is worthless and you feel that it is an attack on your belief system which you, rightly or not, consider as a personal attack. In that circumstance, I certainly can understand why you would lash back (it is an honorable thing to defend one's beliefs)

    Perhaps this is why we have been taught to never discuss politics or religion. They are both subjects that carry with them a high emotional charge and at the core if someone has an opposing viewpoint it is easy to become personally offended.

    On some level, it is sad that we really cannot discuss these issues. How will we ever find common ground if we cannot have this sort of rhetoric without it turning into a tit for tat exchange of punches?

    All things considered, my apology still stands and no personal offense was meant.

    Quote Originally Posted by coma View Post
    Here's an idea, as per that sort of conversation
    Dont Bother.
    If someone has determined they already know the answer a true dialouge is impossible regardless of what position or point of view one may have
    Coma, those are words of wisdom!
    Last edited by Yojimbo; 18-Aug-2007 at 06:04 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    Originally Posted by EvilNed
    As a much wiser man than I once said: "We must stop the banning - or loose the war."

  15. #30
    Rising Terran's Avatar
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    A few years ago I was more than willing to concede that a Jesus of the bible existed... I was still an atheist but I basically assumed that a portion of it was true...

    Essentially I believed that a man named Jesus lived....went around preaching stuff ....had followers ....upset the factions of the government and society....and was put to death by romans....


    It was not until I was having a debate with a believer about the miracles of Jesus that I thought anything contrary to this... I started looking for information about that time period that was outside of the bible.... And I was essentially alarmed that there was nothing about a person named Jesus.... In fact what happened was the more and more I looked around the more evidence I found that not only the miracles appeared to be a complete myth, the actual existance of the man appeared to be fiction...


    Stuff like this....

    Notable omissions in extant contemporary records
    Some of the strongest evidence against the historicity of Jesus lies in the fact that no mention of him or the events of the New Testament can be found in any of the numerous contemporary and near-contemporary records of the day.


    Philo (20 BCE - 40 CE)
    By far, the most notable omission is Philo's. Philo was a Hellenized Jew who lived in Alexandria, Egypt. He visited the Temple in Jerusalem, and corresponded with family there. He wrote a great many books on religion and philosophy which survive to this day, and mentioned many of his contemporaries. His main theological contribution was the development of the Logos, the "Word" that opens the Gospel of John. Yet Philo not once mentions Jesus, anybody who could be mistaken for Jesus, or any of the events of the New Testament. His last writings come from 40 CE, only a few years after the end of Pontius Pilate's reign, when he was part of an embassy sent by the Alexandrian Jews to the Roman Emperor Caligula.




    Plutarch (ca. 46 - 127)
    Plutarch wrote, about the same time as Josephus, about contemporary Roman figures, oracles, prophesies, and moral, religious, and spiritual issues. A figure such as Jesus, whom the Gospels portray as interacting with Roman figures, making prophecies, and giving sermons on novel religious and spiritual issues, would have been of great interest to him.


    Justus
    {{disputed-section}}

    Justus of Tiberias wrote, at the end of the first century, a history of Jewish kings in Galilee. As the Gospels record Jesus as having significant interactions with the Jewish political and religious leaders, as well as the highest-ranking local Roman officials, one would expect Justus to have made mention of those events. Not all of his writing has survived intact to this day, but none of what does exist makes mention of Jesus. Further, no mention is made--especially by early Christian apologists--of such a reference, even by writers who would have had access to his complete works.


    Josephus (ca. 37 - ca. 100)
    For those who reject the authenticity of both the Testamonium Flavanium and the xx.9 reference to James, Josephus would belong on this list. Naturally, those who accept the authenticity of one or the other, in whole or in part, see Josephus as providing evidence for an historical Jesus and thus would object to Josephus's inclusion. As the only first-century non-Christian to perhaps write of Jesus, the two brief mentions to be found in Antiquities of the Jews (written ca. 94) are the subject of often-heated debate.


    Others
    There are a number of other sources that survive from the period in which it would not have been unreasonable to find mention of Jesus, though in no particular case would one be surprised to find mention of Jesus lacking. However, Jesus is missing from all of them.

    These include: Damis, who wrote of Apollonius of Tyana, a philosopher and mystic who was a contemporary with Jesus; Pliny the Elder, who wrote, in 80 CE, a Natural History that mentions hundreds of people, major and minor; Juvenal, Martial, Petronius, and Persius, Roman satirists who favored topics similar to Jesus's story; Pausanias, whose massive Guide to Greece includes mentions of thousands of names, including minor Jewish figures in Palestine; historians Epictetus and Aelius Aristides, who both recorded events and people in Palestine; and Fronto who, in the second century, scandalized rites about Roman Christians without ever mentioning Jesus.

    Other writers and historians of the time who did not mention Jesus include Dio Chrysostom, Aulus Gellius, Lucius Apuleius, Marcus Aurelius, Musonius Rufus, Hierocles of Alexandria, Cassius Maximus Tyrius, Arrian, Appian, Marcus Fabius Quintilianus, Lucius Annaeus Florus, and Marcus Annaeus Lucanus.


    Genealogy
    Matthew 1:1-16 traces Jesus's lineage from King David's son Solomon through to Joseph's father, Jacob. Luke 3:23-31 traces a completely different lineage from King David's son Nathan to Joseph's father, Heli. Christian apologists traditionally explain this discrepancy by suggesting that one records a patrilineal genealogy while the other a matrilineal one, but both identify different fathers for Joseph and neither mentions Mary. Further, there is no historical precedent for indicating a matrilineal genealogy for a first-century Jewish man, and especially not to establish that man's royal heritage.


    Early childhood
    According to Matthew 2:13-16, Mary and Joseph fled with the infant Jesus to Egypt in order to escape Herod's slaughtering of "all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under." The family does not return until the end of Herod's reign. In Luke 2:39-40, the holy family returns directly to Nazareth from Bethlehem, traveling to Jerusalem every year for the Passover feast. No mention of any acts of infanticide is made.

    The trial
    According to Matthew 26:18-20, 26:57-68, 27:1-2, Mark 14:16-18, 14:53-72, and 15:1, Jesus's initial hearing was at night on the first evening of Passover; in the morning, he was taken to Pontius Pilate. Luke 22:13-15 and 54-66 record the hearing as having taken place in the morning, and in John 18:28 and 19:14 it happened the day before. This is especially significant as the first evening of Passover was and is one of the holiest days of the year for Jews, a day on which conducting business of any kind would be anathema.

    In Matthew 26:59-66 and Mark 14:55-64, Jesus is tried by the entire Sanhedrin, the Jewish high court. In Luke 22:66-71, there was no trial, but only an inquiry held by the Sanhedrin. In John 18:13-24, Jesus was never brought before the Sanhedrin at all; Jesus only had private hearings before Annas and Caiphas.

    Matthew 27:11-14 reports that Jesus maintained a stoic silence at his hearing before Pilate. According to John 18:33-37, Jesus answered all the charges eloquently and at length.

    The chief priests and elders persuade the people to demand the release of Barabbas in Matthew 27:20, whereas in Mark 15:11 only the chief priests are responsible, and in Luke 23:18-23 the people seem to decide for themselves without prompting from leadership.

    If anyone has any additional information about the "Jesus Myth" either supporting it or refuting it I would be excited to hear about it so I could look at it....I dont want to go around like an ass and say "Did you know that Jesus is a mythical character that never existed" when it turns out that there is undenialable evidence sitting out there somewhere that this person once existed....
    ______________________________
    They made us too smart, too quick, and too many. We are suffering for the mistakes they made because when the end comes, all that will be left is us. That's why they hate us.

    There is no target consumer! Only targets. Targets that will tremble as their new master hands down edicts in my glorious booming voice!

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