The "tolerant" left

[DjfunkmasterG]

What is it with this taboo of the word socialism? What were you all taught in school that's brainwashed you so much against this word?? Sorry that's not meant beligerantly, and I don't want to open a debate about the merits of healthcare - I'm just perplexed at how some of you see the word socialism as so completely vile and evil. Why is it such a dirty word? Was it all those posters of the kid sitting in front of napster with the slogan "napster is communism"?? Honestly I love you guys, especially those members on the board. I love how America gets involved in politics, but I will never, ever, ever understand some of you on the right. You are some weird cookies. Its something in the cookies that make some of these people make me shake my head. I really don't understand why socialism is regarded as taboo. Communism I can understand, but socialism?

[JDFP]

What is it with this taboo of the word socialism? What were you all taught in school that's brainwashed you so much against this word?? Sorry that's not meant beligerantly, and I don't want to open a debate about the merits of healthcare - I'm just perplexed at how some of you see the word socialism as so completely vile and evil. Why is it such a dirty word? Was it all those posters of the kid sitting in front of napster with the slogan "napster is communism"?? Honestly I love you guys, especially those members on the board. I love how America gets involved in politics, but I will never, ever, ever understand some of you on the right. You are some weird cookies. And I am truly perplexed at how people are brain-washed into believing that Socialism is somehow a "good" thing for society as well as perplexed at how any rational human being could accept that this could possibly work in any industrial society. One tenant of socialism is the nationalization of the means of production of a State. This, of course, is a terrible idea as the government has never had any leadership abilities to compete with the Capitalist free-market of private enterprise. The leadership of the State just cannot compare to the leadership of the private sector. If anything along these lines was attempted to be implemented we'd have another disaster far worse than any of the piss-poor management of the Social Security Administration and Veteran's Affairs. Per Wikipedia some Socialists prefer "State Control through a Free Market". Are you intentionally attempting to make me laugh, Wikipedia? This is a pipe dream. You can't tie a man's hands for success and then say: "Do your best!" What is a man's/woman's motivation for succeeding if there is no reward / no benefit to his/her struggle? A man with no purpose is one of the greatest tragedies out there. How about looking at Libertarian Socialism (isn't that any oxymoron?): Direct collective control by the people (at least the people in charge, ahem). Yes, the notion of Collectivism under Stalin and Mao's programmes worked extremely well for the people of the Soviet Union and China, didn't they? This is another pipe dream. It doesn't work, and it gives merit to insanity like Lysenkoism which if implemented on a collectivist level leads to mass starvation. The only thing worse than bad politics is bad science mixed with it. Furthermore, Socialism as a political philosophy is morally reprehensible to me. Any political ideology that puts the "good of the people" above the rights and liberties of the individual is not acceptable. Every individual should have the ability to grow and accomplish through their hard work and growth. This IS the essence of the American dream. The very notion of Socialism is anethma to the individual in stating that no matter how hard you work, no matter how much you struggle, it doesn't ultimately matter in the long run as a matter of personal success and accomplishment -- your needs will always be secondary to the "masses". And, this just doesn't work. There will always be a vanguard, an elite, an intelligentsia , Party Members, Politburo, in any society that will refuse to only be another "comrade" in the collective. It's human nature to want to rise above the 'norm' in society, Socialism tries to snuff this out ignoring the very nature of humans, American free-market Capitalism rewards this by individual success. So yes, Socialism is vile because it's inhumane in diminishing the importance of the individual. It's dangerous because it's disasterous in knowing how far a society can go in ignoring individual liberties and freedoms for "the good of the people" instead. It's also incompatable with economic systems -- it's inefficient and it just doesn't work. j.p.

[DjfunkmasterG]

And I am truly perplexed at how people are brain-washed into believing that Socialism is somehow a "good" thing for society as well as perplexed at how any rational human being could accept that this could possibly work in any industrial society. One tenant of socialism is the nationalization of the means of production of a State. This, of course, is a terrible idea as the government has never had any leadership abilities to compete with the Capitalist free-market of private enterprise. The leadership of the State just cannot compare to the leadership of the private sector. If anything along these lines was attempted to be implemented we'd have another disaster far worse than any of the piss-poor management of the Social Security Administration and Veteran's Affairs. Per Wikipedia some Socialists prefer "State Control through a Free Market". Are you intentionally attempting to make me laugh, Wikipedia? This is a pipe dream. You can't tie a man's hands for success and then say: "Do your best!" What is a man's/woman's motivation for succeeding if there is no reward / no benefit to his/her struggle? A man with no purpose is one of the greatest tragedies out there. How about looking at Libertarian Socialism (isn't that any oxymoron?): Direct collective control by the people (at least the people in charge, ahem). Yes, the notion of Collectivism under Stalin and Mao's programmes worked extremely well for the people of the Soviet Union and China, didn't they? This is another pipe dream. It doesn't work, and it gives merit to insanity like Lysenkoism which if implemented on a collectivist level leads to mass starvation. The only thing worse than bad politics is bad science mixed with it. Furthermore, Socialism as a political philosophy is morally reprehensible to me. Any political ideology that puts the "good of the people" above the rights and liberties of the individual is not acceptable. Every individual should have the ability to grow and accomplish through their hard work and growth. This IS the essence of the American dream. The very notion of Socialism is anethma to the individual in stating that no matter how hard you work, no matter how much you struggle, it doesn't ultimately matter in the long run as a matter of personal success and accomplishment -- your needs will always be secondary to the "masses". And, this just doesn't work. There will always be a vanguard, an elite, an intelligentsia , Party Members, Politburo, in any society that will refuse to only be another "comrade" in the collective. It's human nature to want to rise above the 'norm' in society, Socialism tries to snuff this out ignoring the very nature of humans, American free-market Capitalism rewards this by individual success. So yes, Socialism is vile because it's inhumane in diminishing the importance of the individual. It's dangerous because it's disasterous in knowing how far a society can go in ignoring individual liberties and freedoms for "the good of the people" instead. It's also incompatable with economic systems -- it's inefficient and it just doesn't work. j.p. Ummm, we already do that now. Any law enacted by the US government, and plenty of them from republicans and democrats already do exactly this, so in a sense America is already a socialist nation

[JDFP]

Ummm, we already do that now. Any law enacted by the US government, and plenty of them from republicans and democrats already do exactly this, so in a sense America is already a socialist nation Oh, there's certainly some pee in the swimming pool of America. But we're still mostly a free-market Capitalist society with some safe-guards put into place. The further we place government into control of our lives though, the more Americans start relying on the government as opposed to their own hard-work and family, the more we go down this path then we will eventually reach a point where America stops being America. We haven't reached that point yet, and I pray (along with many other hard-working Americans) that we continue to fight against the lunacy. j.p.

[darth los]

A tell tale sign of a right winger seems to be their general meaness toward those less fortunate than them or that disagree with them. They like to talk down to others in a condecending matter as well. This is not even my opinion, it's my observation simply from reading the posts of right wingers on these bards alone. Go ahead and pull them up for yourselves. Big reason why most of them are my ignore list.

[AcesandEights]

We're veering into he said/she said waters again.

[thxleo]

Oh, there's certainly some pee in the swimming pool of America. But we're still mostly a free-market Capitalist society with some safe-guards put into place. The further we place government into control of our lives though, the more Americans start relying on the government as opposed to their own hard-work and family, the more we go down this path then we will eventually reach a point where America stops being America. We haven't reached that point yet, and I pray (along with many other hard-working Americans) that we continue to fight against the lunacy. j.p. You are wasting your time, j.p. There are obviously a large amount of people out there that want to be controlled and taken care of rather than doing it for themselves. The term useful idiots comes to mind right away. People that think like we do are "weird" because we actually prefer less government. Go figure.

[DjfunkmasterG]

You are wasting your time, j.p. There are obviously a large amount of people out there that want to be controlled and taken care of rather than doing it for themselves. The term useful idiots comes to mind right away. People that think like we do are "weird" because we actually prefer less government. Go figure. Less Government... Really???? And how do you describe the most interfering government law, THE PATRIOT ACT, ever enacted by REPUBLICANS???? Thats right, THE PATRIOT ACT... How soon we forget how the BUSH Administration wanted all these checks and balances in the name of safety and terrorism... BS it was to track the general populace, and don't try and say otherwise because they have been caught spying and listening to conversations by everyday americans with ZERO links to terrorism.

[thxleo]

Less Government... Really???? And how do you describe the most interfering government law, THE PATRIOT ACT, ever enacted by REPUBLICANS???? Thats right, THE PATRIOT ACT... How soon we forget how the BUSH Administration wanted all these checks and balances in the name of safety and terrorism... BS it was to track the general populace, and don't try and say otherwise because they have been caught spying and listening to conversations by everyday americans with ZERO links to terrorism. I'm glad that they tried to catch more potential threats to our security. How did the Patriot Act affect your life, Gary? In fact, who do you know that was thrown in jail because of the Patriot Act? Who do you know whose life was destroyed because of the Patriot Act? I don't know anyone, who knows anyone, who knows anyone that knows anyone that was affected by the Patriot Act! Your responses are always predictable and asinine. I'm surprised you didn't throw a vulgarity in there as well. I'm sure that was a herculean effort for you.

[BillyRay]

Actually, Leo, I have a good friend who was 'investigated' by Homeland Security - his records, house and reputation got trashed in the process - because an aquaintance with an axe to grind called his name in to the authorities. Took him years to recover his business and assets. So it does happen. I told myself that I wouldn't get involved in this argument, but I just wanted you to know that the Patriot Act has had it's victims. Just sayin'.

[clanglee]

Now what America really needs is a new party to rise up and make the arguments interesting.

[thxleo]

Actually, Leo, I have a good friend who was 'investigated' by Homeland Security - his records, house and reputation got trashed in the process - because an aquaintance with an axe to grind called his name in to the authorities. Took him years to recover his business and assets. So it does happen. I told myself that I wouldn't get involved in this argument, but I just wanted you to know that the Patriot Act has had it's victims. Just sayin'. I knew that someone would post something like this. I must hang out with a better crowd of folks, because no one in my family or any friend I know has ever had a problem. And I've never met a soul that has ever known anyone that has had a problem with Homeland Security. I'm willing to bet though that there will be numerous posts from the peanut gallery with horror stories. Funny how that works?

[clanglee]

better crowd of folks talk about class!!! Leo, insulting someone's friends is not the way to win friends and influence people.

[SRP76]

Now what America really needs is a new party to rise up and make the arguments interesting. Vote for me for President in 2012, and I'll show you all the new party you want.

[Kaos]

This horse has been beaten to death then run over with a steam roller. Thread closed.