Zombie strength levels

[Cinerary]

[Jamn]

I agree that a zombie could be stronger because they feel no pain or they feel a great deal of pain to feed, that makes sense. The denim and leather statement is also something to consider, human teeth don't penetrate like a dog's would. What about the way you become infected? I just watched Survival and pretty much after you died you became a zombie whether you were bitten or not. Resident Evil even goes as far as saying one scratch will kill you. I think it should be limited to a bite. That at least gives you some chance.

[shootemindehead]

I think Romero's general death = zombie route is the best one. It goes some way to making for a more believable apocalypse. With the sheer amount of people dropping dead every day, that would equal a serious amount of zombies in a relatively short time.

[Publius]

I think Romero's general death = zombie route is the best one. It goes some way to making for a more believable apocalypse. With the sheer amount of people dropping dead every day, that would equal a serious amount of zombies in a relatively short time. I agree that that's the best route to a believable apocalypse. But don't overestimate the number of people dropping dead every day. In the U.S., it's less than 7,000, compared to 309,000,000 living. And almost 60% of the dead are 75 years old and older or 4 years old and younger.

[SymphonicX]

All I have to say on the subject of zombie strength consistency is: look at the zombies slowly knocking the shopping mall windows in Dawn.... Then look at what the fireman zombie does in Day when he's put into the wooden pen before being taken to the lab.

[shootemindehead]

I agree that that's the best route to a believable apocalypse. But don't overestimate the number of people dropping dead every day. In the U.S., it's less than 7,000, compared to 309,000,000 living. And almost 60% of the dead are 75 years old and older or 4 years old and younger. That's still 7000 new zombies every day, plus those they attack.

[Wyldwraith]

Yes, But one has to remember that not nearly all attack victims will be intact enough to reanimate, or even mobile if they do. Chew enough flesh (muscle) off the extremities and you might as well have amputated them once you lose X amount of connective tissue. Additionally, there will be the % of people who become infected, but escape the attacking zombie's clutches. Once news of the invariably lethal nature of the zombie bite and the certainty of reanimation gets disseminated, many will choose a means of suicide that won't allow reanimation, or a comrade will do the job for them. Of course this won't apply to all or even most infected humans, but it would probably be a significant % nonetheless. There's also the odd inverse that Greater # of Zombies Attacking Single Victim = Higher chance of the attack being immediately fatal, but Greater The # of Zombies Attacking An Individual = The more likely too much flesh for a viable/significantly functional reanimation has been consumed. Basically, zombie propagation can ironically become a victim of the zombies' own success at increasing their numbers. Finally, recall that early on civilians with guns & ammo will be at their most plentiful, before beginning to decline after zombies numbers exceed a certain density in a given area, due to both casualties and running out of limited supplies of bullets. Meaning, early on you have the highest # of individuals equipped to terminate large numbers of zombies with (relatively) low combat proficiency, and these same individuals for the same reason have the means at that early stage in the outbreak to prevent their own reanimation or (more likely) the reanimation of a friend/family member/ally. After all, someone with a pistol can dispatch a currently-reanimating zombie easily enough if they were on hand when the person expired. One of the scenes I hate the most in Dawn '04 is how the fat old dying woman and Anna's husband both reanimate so damned fast, and are fully functional and hunting so quickly after dying. I just can't suspend my disbelief to buy into a reanimation that happens so illogically/unbelievably. Anyways, these are some of the impediments I see for the zombies numbers increasing in the early part of the outbreak.

[Publius]

fireman zombie Come on now, don't start that again! That's still 7000 new zombies every day, plus those they attack. In addition to what Wyldwraith mentions, keep in mind that most people die in a hospital or similar facility. After the first day, the next 7000 won't be much of a surprise. Also keep in mind that a 310,000,000 to 7,000 ratio works out to about 44,300 to 1. Most small towns won't see a single zombie for days, which gives the people who live there a big head start for preparation and organization.

[Wyldwraith]

In addition to what Wyldwraith mentions, keep in mind that most people die in a hospital or similar facility. After the first day, the next 7000 won't be much of a surprise. Also keep in mind that a 310,000,000 to 7,000 ratio works out to about 44,300 to 1. Most small towns won't see a single zombie for days, which gives the people who live there a big head start for preparation and organization. Agreed, but to elaborate further: Take the typical small-town-situation Publius mentioned. Let's even go against the likely probabilities and say the unfolding situation in the world (the gory details/effects of the zombie apocalypse and civil unrest) depicted on the TV causes a rash of fatal stress-related heart attacks in a dozen senior citizens, and that on the same day a guy is so stunned by what he's hearing on the radio he either runs someone down with his car accidentally or crashes the car, killing himself, or both. That would give us 14 zombies in one day, in a single small town VERY early in the unfolding Zombie Apocalypse. Let's further assume that NOT EVEN ONE person in this small town knows or suspects anything about shooting zombies in the head to terminate them at first, meaning EVERYONE in the town will need to be informed of this critical fact after a few survivors of conflicts with the initial 14 zombies discover the Head-Trauma-Weakness through hard-won experience. How do you think this rural small town in say, the Southeastern United States would do? IMHO, three major factors would spell the doom of the zombies in short order. 1) Small towns in the South = Disproportionate % of heavily armed rednecks/hunting enthusiasts/kooky survivalists. These armed civilians are most likely in possession of rifles and/or shotguns, as they are the more common hunting weapons. In fact, MANY areas of the South (know this from personal experience) include significant numbers of Shotgun-wielding deer hunters. Meaning the shotguns in question will likely be 16 or 12-gauge, and the shells will be 0 or 00 (aka "Double ought") buckshot, or (more likely) slugs. The rifles will likely range from 30/30s, .30-06s to .308s. Many states REQUIRE a certain minimum caliber for rifle hunting, and almost all require centerfire ammunition-loaded weapons. Additionally, because different geographical deer-hunting areas are divided by law into Shotgun OR Rifle Zones (meaning only one or the other may be used in that area, such as in Michigan), many Deer hunters will have both shotguns and rifles so they may hunt in more areas conveniently. All of these factors increase the probability that the majority of rifles/shotguns and their attendant ammunition will be of a type highly effective against a human being as well as a deer. This is without even getting into the portions of society I'll touch on next, that have reasons of their own to possess quite lethal pistols among other weapons. 2) Criminals. Due to the sprawling nature of many scattered population centers in the South, there is a significant problem with highly mobile, extremely violent criminal elements. The very small size of many towns preclude them as anything other than a stopover for many criminal enterprises, due to the Small Town Effect, by which everyone knows everyone else and their business. Due to this and other factors, mobility becomes a desired attribute in many successful outlaw biker gangs (such as the Outlaws, based primarily in Florida (my state of residence) and Georgia), or even Chapters of the Pagans branching downward from their Maryland-heavy chapters. Combined with the # of small gangs cooking and distributing meth, PCP and Ketamine(sp?), that adds up to a substantial # regionally of well-organized, frighteningly well-armed individuals totally desensitized to the worst violence imaginable. Dawn hit the mark when it depicted a motorcycle gang as likely survivors, and these criminal elements will only grow bolder and see their membership swell as the government/police begin to fail to keep people safe. That however is a tangent only peripherally related to this Small Town Hypothesis. 3) Regular, 2nd Amendment Lovers, who have guns because they want to have guns, because they very much like owning and using their guns. Combine any two of these three groups, and you'll quickly see that even if each zombie causes overall ten times the original number of 14 zombies to be created, 140 zombies versus a town which likely possesses 3x that number of at least moderately proficient and well-armed individuals at a minimum. Remember, even if you don't know to shoot them in the head, even just a couple of guys firing 12-gauges loaded with 00-buckshot or .308s (from much further away) can do an ENORMOUS amount of damage to a human body in a frighteningly short amount of time. In other words, how many center-mass close-range blasts from a 12-gauge do you believe it'll take to render a zombie non-mobile/massively impaired? I'm betting 3 solid blasts will do it. Anyone else?

[Jamn]

Remember, even if you don't know to shoot them in the head, even just a couple of guys firing 12-gauges loaded with 00-buckshot or .308s (from much further away) can do an ENORMOUS amount of damage to a human body in a frighteningly short amount of time. In other words, how many center-mass close-range blasts from a 12-gauge do you believe it'll take to render a zombie non-mobile/massively impaired? I'm betting 3 solid blasts will do it. Anyone else?[/QUOTE] I agree with the gun ratio being much larger in the South. Huge cities like NYC and Chicago that are anti-gun will be in much more trouble just from the amount and density of the population. Like the saying goes 'if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns' (in those areas). I myself own many guns for many different reasons, I have several 22's for target and playing around with. I have several shotguns set up for different applications, like hunting or home defense. Yes 12 gauge rounds come in many forms and I have several of each. I do have handguns I carry everyday, but if I was stuck out somewhere my arsenal would be useless. The whole thing would have to depend on everyone believing what is actually happening, and what would have to be done. Much like in Survival some heavily armed people would be no good if they couldn't put down one of their own. Any type of organized groups would be better off, and if they do not live by society's laws they are more likely to shoot first. The bikers in Dawn also stayed mobile so they weren't limited to protecting a stronghold.

[SRP76]

I agree that that's the best route to a believable apocalypse. But don't overestimate the number of people dropping dead every day. In the U.S., it's less than 7,000, compared to 309,000,000 living. And almost 60% of the dead are 75 years old and older or 4 years old and younger. The world's a lot bigger than the United States. The U.S. only has about 5% of the world's people, and isn't close to the top of the mortality rate list. Always remember, this thing's worldwide. Nowhere to run.

[Wyldwraith]

Who says you need somewhere to run? Yes, it's a global phenomena. Meaning different nations, with different customs/social more, different levels of what we call "civility", and different densities of armed individuals proficient with said weapons, will almost invariably produce results as different from those in other nations as the nations themselves are different from one another. In other words, different countries will in the main approach the problem of reanimated homicidal undead in ways significantly different from those chosen by other countries. Someone is bound to choose **A** "right answer" and secure their nation against the undead. Hell, an entire continent might end up secured against the undead, while one or more other continents are completely swallowed up by the undead. If, for instance, the U.S/Canada/Mexico managed to get a handle on the undead-induced crisis, it's not likely European/African/Asian/Australian zombies can swim on over to North America to press the attack. It's a poor assumption to assume all geographical areas will completely fail to stop the zombies.

[mista_mo]

But no one will need to run when all the zombies have already been killed.

[SRP76]

It's a poor assumption to assume all geographical areas will completely fail to stop the zombies. It's a perfect assumption. Point out which country doesn't have crime. Or terrorists. Or organized gangs. Or even pirates. There isn't one. Why? Because it is simply not possible to "secure" a nation. Seriously, we can't even tackle a hurricane - when we've got a WEEK to prepare for it! In ONE spot. Which his, and then is done and gone in a few hours. If you get blindsided with, "oops, we've got man-eating corpses...ohshitlookout!!", it's game over. It's everywhere, there is no "zombie tracking chart" ahead of time at your local convenience store, and it does NOT stop in a few hours. Shit, Los Angeles has had over 30 years to put down the Crips. No closer to doing so than on day one. You're not going to get 30 years with zombies. It's right this second, or you're toast.

[darth los]

All I have to say on the subject of zombie strength consistency is: look at the zombies slowly knocking the shopping mall windows in Dawn.... Then look at what the fireman zombie does in Day when he's put into the wooden pen before being taken to the lab. I'm with you on the fireman zombie dude.