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Thread: World War Z (film)

  1. #46
    Twitching
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    Quote Originally Posted by MinionZombie View Post
    My take is - the only way to kill a zombie, is shoot the fucker in the head - how are you going to manage that, one of the most basic and necessary elements of the zombie genre, with a PG-13 rating?

    Plus the fact that zombies like to eat people ... and that they're rotting corpses walking around. Vampires just get frozen in the time at which they were bitten, so you can easily make them look like Ashley Greene (meow! ), but zombies are so not that kind of movie monster that can be prettied up. If you try to put some lipstick and eyeliner on a zombie they'll either bite your hand off, or their eyes and lips will fall off.
    I'll concede you the point about Yonkers,
    The same, however, CANNOT be said about the first big epic push back eastward after the President-in-Exile's stirring speech about why Humanity has a duty and responsibility to do more than secure Fiddler's Green-type enclaves, and actually clear the "White Zones". Soldiers trained to fire in a synchronized manner with a metronome as the actual training aid....resulting in piling terminated zombie corpses "....Over twice the height of the tallest trooper..." I mean c'mon, they had to use heavy earth-moving machinery to push holes in the "Corpse box" so the soldiers could get out when the battle ended.

    How do you HIDE THAT? Hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands...maybe even a full hundred thousand rotting bodies that have all been struck in the skull by (at best) the 5.56x45mm round of the M-16. Zombies clambering atop these walls of bodies, only to be headshot in the process and becoming another brick in the wall-of-rotting-flesh.

    I also reiterate....the South African Plan was the cornerstone used by the majority of European countries and a large handful of Asian territories to evacuate large numbers of people, and buy themselves time to establish strongholds to house those evacuees that were capable of withstanding 50-100k zombies throwing themselves at their perimeters. You can't gloss over the horrifying, soul-numbingly revolting Devil's Deal the First World nations made to continue existing. Doing so would rob much of the impact from the narrative. That's not about being a gore-hound...that's pointing out that the "strong story" is lynch-pinned by an atrocity that rivals The Holocaust.

    And Hellsing, if you think the assault on the celebrity stronghold by the disenfranchised survivors even makes the Top Five list of Most Violent Stories/Interviews in WWZ, you really need to go back and read the book more carefully. Some of the smaller, "minor" accounts are chock full of gruesome violence....the marathon/running-fanatic's account of the dozens of survivors that started out...with every mile or so someone lost the will to keep up the pace and was quickly dragged down....the desperation that set in as the group shrank, shrank and shrank some more. What kind of meaning would a visual version of his story have if we don't see the ultimate price paid by those who failed to flog their exhausted bodies into continuing to run?

    The most likely way this would go down if they were committed to a PG-13 is A) The removal and/or EXTREME editing (to the point of making the stories from WWZ different stories entirely. Ones with only a vague similarity to the original subject matter from which they were "adapted"....or B) The near-constant use of visual cop-outs...such as just as the zombies latch onto someone the camera pans away and you just hear the screams trail off into nasty wet sounds...or the beaten-to-death visual device of showing what amounts to a shadow-play of the events by showing you the moving shadows being cast by victim and attackers...or a sudden environmental obstruction blocking 85% of the scene where the zombie attack is taking place.

    If we were simply talking about your classic, run of the mill "Survivors realize the undead have risen to attack the living. Survivors either A) Find somewhere to hole up and defend/secure until help comes (which never does)...or B) Survivors continue their Mad-Maxish nomadic travels across an infested nation....then yes, judicious use of some of these visual cop-outs in tasteful ways...paired with strong characterization, excellent plot/plot pacing....and a scenario that doesn't stretch suspension of disbelief too far would work.

    Unfortunately, WWZ isn't that. Most of the accounts/interviews it contains are full of mature themes. Deeply critical subtext concerning how governments cover their ass even at the expense of huge portions of their citizenry....Detailed indictments of human nature, and how we humans strongly tend to sink into the depths of depravity when the alternative is death. (Ie: The South African Plan never could've been exported to the majority of European nations if the hundreds of thousands of people deemed "worthy" of evacuation didn't tacitly consent to the slaughter of tens/hundreds of thousands by zombies in order to secure their safety....even what will undoubtedly be taken by some religious fundamentalists as a slap in the face to their beliefs (the account of the woman who sees the souls of the people still trapped as helpless spectators to the horrible acts being committed by their undead bodies.)

    All of these are by definition Mature Themes. Yes, there are some accounts that fall within PG-13 limits, such as the astronaut's and a few of the medical explorations of the nature of the zombie contagion...but the real highlights....the juicy stuff that really drives home the horror of the work....it can be done in PG-13...just not well.

    I'm open to differing opinions...I'd just like to hear a somewhat in-depth explanation as to why you believe these mature themes can be well-made within PG-13 limits...and how they might actually go about accomplishing that feat, because honestly....I just can't see it.

  2. #47
    through another dimension bassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shootemindehead View Post
    Let's be honest, people went to see 'Jaws' first, because of the promise of people getting eaten by a 25ft shark.
    I don't think so. People went to see Jaws because it was scary. Sure, the payoff is great but that's not where the fear comes from. There's a difference between disgust and horror. Take the opening scene for example. We don't really see a drop of blood from that girl, but the scene is absolutely terrifying when you first see it.


    BTW, I've just watched 'Jaws' recently and it's more bloody than you think and Quint's death has lost none of the power that it had in the 70's.
    I've seen it so many times I can probably sit down and write every piece of dialogue by memory. While there are a few bloody scenes, they're not all that extensive imo.


    Without going further into the Jaws tangent, I'm just saying that it certainly is possible to have a PG13 zombie film. In the hands of a good director, of course. Nine times out of ten it will most likely be a disappointment, but it's certainly possible to make a truly scary film without non-stop disgusting special effects. Like I said earlier, the gore is an added bonus but it's not what creates the tension and horror.


    This is all keyboard masturbation, anyway. As I believe I said earlier in this thread, I would be willing to bet that this film will be rated R, anyway...

  3. #48
    Chasing Prey MoonSylver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bassman View Post
    but it's certainly possible to make a truly scary film without non-stop disgusting special effects. Like I said earlier, the gore is an added bonus but it's not what creates the tension and horror.
    It doesn't have to be non-stop gore. Just a few key set pieces. Look at Night/Dawn/Day. Just a few key set pieces, all of which have gone down in history. These movies will always be remembered, among other things, for the fact that they didn't wimp out, they didn't flinch, they didn't compromise.

    Not to say I don't see your point, & agree to some extent on some levels, but I've also seen plenty of toothless "horror" movies over the years that fail to make any visceral impact because they played it safe rather than show something unpleasant. It feels like a cheat. A swindle. Like they're just going through the motions.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellsing View Post
    that seems creepily worded, or is that just me?
    You need to watch some porn, then it won't be as creepy.

  5. #50
    Zombie Flesh Eater EvilNed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyldwraith View Post
    The truth.
    QFT!

    This film cannot be made in anything else than R. Preferably NC-17, actually.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by bassman View Post
    I don't think so. People went to see Jaws because it was scary.
    Aye...and it's scary because the threat of being eaten by a 25ft great white is scary. That's what people went to see 'Jaws' for. In fact, it's what people read the novel for in the first place. Benchley goes into great and gory detail on just what happens when a metre wide mouth full of triangular serated teeth bites into soft human flesh and organs.

    Quote Originally Posted by bassman View Post
    Sure, the payoff is great but that's not where the fear comes from. There's a difference between disgust and horror. Take the opening scene for example. We don't really see a drop of blood from that girl, but the scene is absolutely terrifying when you first see it.
    Agreed, but if 'Jaws' was limited to such attacks, I guarantee you it wouldn't have been the legend it is today.

    Quote Originally Posted by bassman View Post
    ...but it's certainly possible to make a truly scary film without non-stop disgusting special effects. Like I said earlier, the gore is an added bonus but it's not what creates the tension and horror.
    Again, you're making the classic mistake of it being "be all/end all". It doesn't have to be that way. Horror can manifest itself in many forms, but lets be honest, the horror on offer in a world where the living dead want to rip the living to shreds and devour them is a horror born out of a disgusting concept. The horror in such a world is disgusting, because a) the threat of death on offer is a truly disturbing and disgusting one, b) it's delivered by a truly disgusting "monster" and c) the aftermath of one's "death" is pretty disgusting too.

    By it's very basic nature, the zombie genre is one that screams gore.
    I'm runnin' this monkey farm now Frankenstein.....

  7. #52
    through another dimension bassman's Avatar
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    I see what you mean. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I've got nothing against gore and I do like to see it in my zombie films, but I believe a great zombie film could be made with the PG13 limitations. Besides....PG13 doesn't mean no blood at all, so they could work out a few money shots here and there.

    A bit off topic, but while thinking of good horror films I remembered Fire In The Sky. Ever seen that flick? The spaceship sequence is one of the most frightening things I've seen and quite surprising for a PG13. Yeah that's got nothing to do with this thread, just something that popped in there.

  8. #53
    Zombie Flesh Eater EvilNed's Avatar
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    World War Z is a story about the modern world being devoured by a horde of flesh eating, cannibal corpses. They bring society to it's knees and spare nobody. It's not just about horror, it's also about worldwide terror. Now horror I agree can be done on a PG13 rating, and done well. But terror can't.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by bassman View Post
    I see what you mean. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I've got nothing against gore and I do like to see it in my zombie films, but I believe a great zombie film could be made with the PG13 limitations. Besides....PG13 doesn't mean no blood at all, so they could work out a few money shots here and there.

    A bit off topic, but while thinking of good horror films I remembered Fire In The Sky. Ever seen that flick? The spaceship sequence is one of the most frightening things I've seen and quite surprising for a PG13. Yeah that's got nothing to do with this thread, just something that popped in there.
    No worries. we usually agree on things anyway, so some disagreement is fine.

    Just don't let it get out of hand!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I haven't seen 'Fire in the Sky' in nearly 20 years. I might give it a spin again.
    I'm runnin' this monkey farm now Frankenstein.....

  10. #55
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    I never said an excellent horror movie can't be made with a PG-13 rating.
    Nor did I say that an excellent zombie movie (with a lot of forethought and judicious directing) couldn't be made PG-13.

    I say that WWZ can't be made PG-13 without either gutting the vast majority of major plot points to the point it isn't WWZ anymore, or copping out by using camera tricks to avoid depicting what's happening in the story in a visual manner.

    To reiterate: It isn't the fact that WWZ is a zombie movie that makes it a no-go at PG-13. It's that it's a zombie movie where the overarching continuity of plot threads that weave together through the various accounts relates the story of a world that purchased its survival by offering up MILLIONS of innocent people to be EATEN ALIVE, so that those who rose to the eminence of being "worthy" of being evacuated (who in many cases are the people who have grown wealthy by screwing the masses over all their lives...now go one better and actually become the reason those people's lives are sacrificed.

    It's a story about how governments would rather see tens of millions of their citizenry get eaten alive than come clean with those citizens and admit they've lost control of their nation(s)....or to conceal their horrifying bio-weapons project(s).

    Finally, it's a story about how the undead infested a huge portion of the Earth, and what humanity had to do to adapt itself in order to take back the world and eliminate the zombie menace by being even more relentless and methodical than the undead menace.

    None of these themes lend themselves well to being "toned down" IMHO.

  11. #56
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    For once I agree with Wraith. Once? I'm sure it's not the first time it's happened... Is it?

  12. #57
    Twitching BillyRay's Avatar
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    I guess, for WWZ, it would be a question of their approach to the narrative.

    If they film it in a documentary style, with 'edited news footage' and 'dramatization of events' (like on America's Most Wanted), there wouldn't have to be to be particularly gory. In fact, the opposite would be likely in a documentary format.

    The Zeds in the news footage would indeed be more rotted, but the shakey hand-held or helmet cams would be moving around so much that any gore wouldn't be particularly clear (at least, not dwelled upon in any particular shot). The Zeds in the dramatization could be crap pale makeup and dark circles under the eyes.

    If they film it like a garden-variety straight narrative, though, anything goes.
    Those aren't real problems, Sam.


  13. #58
    Just been bitten tkane18's Avatar
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    I wonder if we'll ever see the day when studios try to appease the masses by releasing two versions of the same movie at the same time (an original R rated version and a watered down PG-13 version).

  14. #59
    through another dimension bassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkane18 View Post
    I wonder if we'll ever see the day when studios try to appease the masses by releasing two versions of the same movie at the same time (an original R rated version and a watered down PG-13 version).
    There are both R and PG13 versions of The King's Speech in theaters at this very moment...

  15. #60
    Just been bitten tkane18's Avatar
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    WOW...I did not know that.

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