TWD 3x02 "Sick" episode discussion...**SPOILERS WITHIN**

[AnxietyDilemma]

Great episode with lots to talk about and even more satisfying reading everyones thoughts. One thing, please be careful about referencing future story arc info from the comics and details that are not general info about upcoming episodes without use of spoiler tags. Thank you. Thank you. I read these discussions after having viewed the respective episode, but I have never read the comic. I know that it says **SPOILERS WITHIN** but I take it as pertaining to the episode in question, so when I read something that says "Well, what happens next in the comic is that.........." I have to immediately skip it because even though it is my understanding that the series strays from the source material in many instances, the comic book still gives some indication of what's to come, and I really don't want to know. It is much easier to scroll past spoiler tags because then I don't have to shield my eyes.

[Moon Knight]

Thank you. I read these discussions after having viewed the respective episode, but I have never read the comic. I know that it says **SPOILERS WITHIN** by I take it as pertaining to the episode in question, so when I read something that says "Well, what happens next in the comic is that.........." I have to immediately skip it because even though it is my understanding that the series strays from the source material in many instances, the comic book still gives some indication of what's to come, and I really don't want to know. It is much easier to scroll past spoiler tags because then I don't have to shield my eyes. Even with the tags a very important development about the comic was spoiled cause I just thought it pertained to the episode. I wasn't mad at anyone cause it was my fault, just wanna give a heads up to those who choose to open spoilers in general.

[shootemindehead]

Loving how all the same people who were jumping on the "shanes an evil bastard" bandwagon last season and now jumping to ricks defense, LOVE it There's a huge, HUGE difference Andy.

[Wyldwraith]

Respectfully, No there isn't Shootem. Rick has developed into a 1-2 M.O just like Shane about survival decisions. Step 1: Seek viable and completely safe for the group means of accomplishing the current goal. Step 2: (If/When Step 1 fails) Use deadly force liberally, because corpses (real dead, dead ones) can't oppose or otherwise threaten you and yours. Example: Shane and the revelation that there were Walkers in the barn on Herschel's farm. Shane Step 1: Attempt to persuade the group to immediately pull up stakes and move away from what he perceived as an imminent/ongoing threat. Shane fails to motivate the group to leave, so he hands out guns and then forces everyone's hands by ripping open the barn doors and turning it into a kill-or-be-killed situation. Example: Shane perceiving Rick as dangerously soft and thereby a threat to Lori & Carl's continued survival. Step 1: Shane spends most of Season 2 trying to goad Rick into making colder, more pragmatic choices. Shane fails. Step 2: Shane plots Rick's assassination. Rick: ------- Example: Encounter with prisoners. Tomas immediately presents himself as a threat, and with the assumed allegiance of the other prisoners, constitutes an even more significant threat to the group. Rick's Step 1: Negotiate terms to provide the prisoners with a sequestered living space away from Rick's group. Step 1 fails when Tomas attempts to murder Rick. Step 2: Rick kills (very justifiably) Tomas in cold blood, then once Andrew attempts to attack him with the bat immediately after Rick kills Tomas, Rick hunts Andrew down and locks him outside in the courtyard Rick sealed earlier himself to keep the prison field clear. While the motives and the threshold until deadly force is justifiable for each man vary somewhat, the modus operandi of the present day Rick IS the same as the late Shane. Solve the problem conclusively, directly and unambiguously, or kill the source of the problem. Which only makes sense, given that in the absence of centralized government the threat of deadly force coming into play at any moment has been the primary social deterrent in competitive/conflict-oriented situations for thousands of years. As evidenced by the fact mankind invented warfare before inventing either writing or man-made shelters.

[shootemindehead]

Yes, there is. Shane was a psychopath, whose primary motive was to take his friend's wife and child away. Rick's is trying to keep the group, in its entirety together. Shane's motives for ANY of his actions are suspect, because of his inherent unbalance, while Rick's actions, even if some are harsh, are entirely justified. There is little cross-over.

[AnxietyDilemma]

Good points, but I'd argue that Rick still isn't quite on Shane's level. Shane wouldn't have waited for Tomas to make a move, he would've been arguing with Rick over the plan which involved risking their lives to clear out a cell block in the same confines for prisoners that can't be trusted, much like what we saw throughout season 2. He might've reluctantly gone along with it, but if Rick were the one that was killed and Shane was calling the shots, there'd be no deals or negotiating with the prisoners in the first place once it was established that they were a threat which happened early on.

[shootemindehead]

If Shane had somehow found himself in the position of leader, the group would have fallen apart completely, or else Daryl would have arrowed him in the back of the head. The difference in Shane and Rick (besides Shane's untrustworthy psychopathic nature) is that Shane wants to control, while Rick wants to lead.

[krisvds]

Solid episode. Good stuff seeing Rick slowly getting to grips with this new world and new rules. The clash between preserving one's humanity and doing ethically questionable deeds (shit happens indd) to preserve the group was well written and, especially, well acted by Mr. Lincoln. The exchange between him and Lori was powerful and heartbreaking at the same time. Also like the new characters; those inmates will no doubt complicate matters further. I do hope a certain comicbook plotline involving the inmates doesn't get lost in the mix. Fans of the comic know what I'm talking about ... Nitpicking weekly; the first time the prisoners attack the undead was very awkward; I like me some dark humour but it felt clumsy and out of place. Also; the women in the group, especially Maggy, do not look as if they have been surviving for months on end without hairdressers, make up and what not... Has Rick become Shane? He's not there yet, but it he is on his way it seems. Though, as things stand now there is a difference: TV Shane would not have hesitated in killing all those prisoners to 'keep the group safe.' Rick still has some lingering humanity in him. It's dissipating fast though by the look of things. Exciting stuff. Now bring on the governor.

[MinionZombie]

I was at it again last night - have some memes: http://deadshed.blogspot.co.uk/2012/...ls-poncho.html Yeah. It seemed pretty obvious that he was eaten. End of story. I think i've just noticed a great bit of fan service. I don't know if anyone else is aware of this but AMC seem to have a habit of deliberately misleading fans in their trailers for TWD. If you've watched the season 3 comic con trailer more than once you would be under the impression that Rick is confronting the governor outside the prison when he says "we spilt blood" etc. I've heard this stated as fact on various podcasts and read it elsewhere but have always had the suspicion that it was just another great bit of editing. In this episode Rick says it to Tomas who looks just like the comic governor to me. I don't think thats a coincedence. 1) Probably the case, but you never know ... there's a glimmer of a chance that he might have got away ... but it is more likely that he was eaten, despite my theory posited earlier. 2) Yes! I noticed that too. The editors of the Comic-Con trailers are very crafty. I love that. This would suggest we'll be seeing tandem storylines for the forseeable future - I can dig it. The difference in Shane and Rick (besides Shane's untrustworthy psychopathic nature) is that Shane wants to control, while Rick wants to lead. Well said. There's a distinct difference between them and you've hit the nail smack-bang on the head. Also; the women in the group, especially Maggy, do not look as if they have been surviving for months on end without hairdressers, make up and what not... To be fair, compared to other shows, they do look pretty messed up at times - particularly when they were filming outside, you could see that they were bathed in sweat. Plus they do "dirty them up" during filming ... the problem with full on messy hair would be the continuity. 'Bed head' one day would be hard to replicate for another day of filming, and across a single scene, it would become obvious ... so there's a limit to how far you can go. I think them having longer hair that's clearly matted with sweat and grease is good enough (it's like a natural gel, anyway ).

[Andy]

Yes, there is. Shane was a psychopath, whose primary motive was to take his friend's wife and child away. Rick's is trying to keep the group, in its entirety together. Shane's motives for ANY of his actions are suspect, because of his inherent unbalance, while Rick's actions, even if some are harsh, are entirely justified. There is little cross-over. Sorry not convinced, i think the real issue is that you like rick and want him to be the hero whereas you chose to villify shane. Lets just look at the 2 acts objectively, Considering your out of ammo, injured and being swarmed by walkers, shooting a injured man in the leg to distract a ever nearing mass of undead and giving youself a shot at getting away with medical supplies for a child.. versus locking a man in a yard full of zombies, becuase he took a swing at you and ran away in pure terror after you killed his friend. Which is worse.. really? comic spoiler below..   Your gonna have to deal with it cuz one of the main themes of the original material is ricks descent into madness and the ever more questionable acts that he does, he is going to get alot lower than shane ever did. Especially after the death of lori.

[Moon Knight]

Eh, yes, Rick is getting darker but he's STILL not a jerk like Shane was. Even though I loved Shane and he did have his reasons for most of the crazy shit he did, Rick wouldn't kill someone just to bag his wife, let alone his best friend. Also, let's not even talk about where Rick is in the comics at this point. This is a different medium.

[bassman]

Nice ones, MZ. I'm stealing a couple of those.

[krisvds]

The Poncho! Lmao. Very funny idd.

[AcesandEights]

The Poncho! Lmao. Very funny... I agree Well played, MZ. Some classics in there, but the poncho one is fantastic!

[bassman]

Watching the comic con trailer after having seen the first two episodes of the season(the trailer is made up of only the first three), I think it may give an idea of who was outside the prison gates watching Carol. A possible idea of where the character came from, anyway. Just a thought...