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Thread: And it begins: Obama Renews Push to Reduce Gun Violence

  1. #61
    Dead Mr. Clean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babomb View Post
    Everyone jumps to the quickest solution: BAN GUNS!
    On talk radio yesterday, One of the guest said that this is a very complex problem that can't be fixed with a simple solution so anyone submitting a simple solution such as gun control isn't really trying to fix the problem. He went on to say that perhaps some form of gun control may be part of the solution but it's certainly not an answer by itself or gonna happen over night.

    Then on a different show, the host blamed Ronald Reagan for closing up all the mental hospitals in the 80s and had all kinds of callers calling in saying that they have children with mental problems that they can't really do anything with.

    EDIT: I guess the ACLU bragged recently about getting a mental hospital shutdown in Illinois aswell.
    Last edited by Mr. Clean; 18-Dec-2012 at 05:47 PM. Reason: ........

  2. #62
    Webmaster Neil's Avatar
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    Maybe a simpler ban, might be to ban the media have a field day?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9jn_qUXtMk
    Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. [click for more]
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    Seems to me like banning things in order to prevent bad things from happening is overall just another way to escape responsibility. You end up in a predicament.

    I can't help but wonder what went on in the personal lives of these shooters. How were they raised? How well were real life skills taught to these people? I've witnessed the coddling of people with mental health problems before. I know a guy who's bi-polar, and his parents dealt with it by spoiling the hell out of him. And it seems as if that's pretty common in those situations. So what ends up happening is that anytime the dude had a problem, he just threw a big enough fit about it that his parents solved the problem for him. So in the end he was never able to develop problem solving skills. I can see something like that resulting in a tragic incident. Where a person decides that since they're having a rough time with life, that others need to suffer for it.
    People always say that there's no way to understand what goes on in the mind of these types. IMO, that's total crap. Something causes these people to revert to using some sort of distorted logic when making the decision to do these things. And there's no way that's just beyond the comprehension of a normal adult. The only way it's incomprehensible is if you try to think of it from your own frame of reference. Something leads up to this.

  4. #64
    Walking Dead mista_mo's Avatar
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    If they close down all of the schools, there will be no more school shootings.

  5. #65
    Just been bitten Staredge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mista_mo View Post
    If they close down all of the schools, there will be no more school shootings.
    This^

  7. #67
    Webmaster Neil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babomb View Post
    Seems to me like banning things in order to prevent bad things from happening is overall just another way to escape responsibility. You end up in a predicament.
    Sort of like banning driving too fast on roads near population centers? Because for me, that one seems quite effective!
    Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. [click for more]
    -Carl Sagan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    Sort of like banning driving too fast on roads near population centers? Because for me, that one seems quite effective!
    Well that's not really a ban now is it? A more accurate comparison in that scenario would be to ban gas pedals. Because those are the physical objects that allow people to go too fast. It's not that people are just careless with their gas pedals, it's because they're in cars. If there were no gas pedals or steering wheels in cars used by average citizens, there wouldn't be any traffic accidents. If privately owned vehicles were more like public transports, being remotely controlled by people who are licensed and trained by the state, and the owners themselves were just passengers, then the world could experience freedom from common traffic accidents.
    If banning vehicle control systems saves even 1 life, then it's worth it right?

  9. #69
    Just Married AcesandEights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babomb View Post
    Well that's not really a ban now is it? A more accurate comparison in that scenario would be to ban gas pedals. Because those are the physical objects that allow people to go too fast. It's not that people are just careless with their gas pedals, it's because they're in cars. If there were no gas pedals or steering wheels in cars used by average citizens, there wouldn't be any traffic accidents. If privately owned vehicles were more like public transports, being remotely controlled by people who are licensed and trained by the state, and the owners themselves were just passengers, then the world could experience freedom from common traffic accidents.
    If banning vehicle control systems saves even 1 life, then it's worth it right?
    I'm no gun control nut, but you're really reaching here.

    "Men choose as their prophets those who tell them that their hopes are true." --Lord Dunsany

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    Quote Originally Posted by AcesandEights View Post
    I'm no gun control nut, but you're really reaching here.
    I wasn't actually serious.
    But it does bare some resemblance. By advocating the idea that private citizens shouldn't be allowed to own guns, you're basically saying that only those trained and licensed by the state should be allowed to bear arms. So then what you have are state employed private citizens licensed to bear arms, trained by the lowest bidding private contractor. Who have no legal obligation to actually protect private citizens. Yes, it's true. The supreme court ruled that police officers are NOT responsible for the safety of citizens. They are merely agents of the state who's responsibility is to the state and their job is to enforce laws put forth by the state.
    So, when you find yourself in a situation such as a late night burglary or home invasion by an armed assailant, hopefully you can get to your phone to call these agents of the state, who are not responsible for your safety. And hopefully they get there in time to prevent any possible tragedy that might ensue.
    But, even if he kills you, at least your family can say at your funeral that you were morally superior to the assailant because you didn't brandish a firearm.

  11. #71
    Dead Mr. Clean's Avatar
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    Operation Legless Cricket is a go!

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...n-wake-school/

    President Obama announces administration-wide task force led by Vice President Biden

    President Obama on Wednesday tapped Vice President Biden to lead an administration-wide effort looking at gun control and other measures in the wake of the Connecticut school shooting last week. The move marks the first concrete step by the White House toward crafting new firearms restrictions. The president did not announce any major policy decisions on Wednesday. Rather, he outlined the process for pursuing changes.

    Some lawmakers, in the wake of the tragedy, have called for a broad-based response, looking at everything from mental health to school security to American culture. Sen. Joe Lieberman, I-Conn., in a call soon joined by others, proposed a national commission examining the entertainment industry and particularly video games.

    Obama and top administration officials have suggested the response to the Newtown, Conn., mass murder could include a range of recommendations. But the focus, given the debate that has accelerated on Capitol Hill in recent days, is likely to be gun control.

    Attorney General Eric Holder said Wednesday that the administration will craft proposals for Congress to consider over the next few weeks. He said a "strong" Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives is also important.

    White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said Tuesday that Obama is "actively supportive" of Sen. Dianne Feinstein's, D-Calif., push to bring back an assault-weapons ban. He also said the president supports closing the so-called gun show loophole.

    Lawmakers have floated a number of other proposals, including regulation of high-capacity clips, that the administration could also look at.

    Gun-rights advocates have started to push back on the swift call for more firearms regulation. The National Rifle Association, after remaining silent in the immediate aftermath of the tragedy, released its first -- albeit brief -- statement on Tuesday, and announced it would be holding a major press conference on Friday.

    The White House sees some urgency in formulating a policy response to the shooting, even as Obama and his top aides are consumed with averting the looming fiscal crisis before tax hikes and spending cuts take effect in January.

    As many pro-gun lawmakers have called for a greater focus on mental health issues and the impact of violent entertainment, aides say Obama also prefers a holistic approach.

    "It's a complex problem that requires more than one solution," Carney said Tuesday. "It calls for not only re-examining our gun laws and how well we enforce them, but also for engaging mental health professionals, law-enforcement officials, educators, parents and communities to find those solutions."

    Still, much of the immediate focus after the shooting is on gun control, an issue that has been dormant in Washington for years. Obama expended little political capital on gun issues during his first term, despite several mass shootings, including a movie theater attack in Aurora, Colorado, in the midst of this year's presidential campaign.

    The White House has begun to signal that Obama may be more proactive on gun issues following the murders of the elementary school youngsters, ages 6 and 7.

    The policy process Obama was announcing Wednesday was expected to include input from the departments of Justice, Education, and Health and Human Services. The heads of those agencies met with Obama at the White House on Monday.
    He's gonna pull our legs off so no one can jump.
    Last edited by Mr. Clean; 19-Dec-2012 at 04:35 PM. Reason: .....

  12. #72
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    Taskforce led by...Biden?! Yeah, there'll be no political or moral grandstanding there and we'll all end up with a perfect set of laws and regulations that won't be completely irrelevant or OTT...

    And you know Biden will attempt to go apeshit with this, as his ungrounded politico mindset will see this as his chance to shine for a future presidential nomination.

    "Men choose as their prophets those who tell them that their hopes are true." --Lord Dunsany

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcesandEights View Post
    Taskforce led by...Biden?! Yeah, there'll be no political or moral grandstanding there and we'll all end up with a perfect set of laws and regulations that won't be completely irrelevant or OTT...

    And you know Biden will attempt to go apeshit with this, as his ungrounded politico mindset will see this as his chance to shine for a future presidential nomination.
    Absolutely! Get ready. It's gonna get real weird soon.

  14. #74
    Feeding ProfessorChaos's Avatar
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    isn't biden a bit old to be considering running for prez? dude's like 70, iirc.

    on a side note, my uncle has an assault rifle that's all decked out with a fancy scope, forward hand-grip, etc. since he has no sons, he told me he plans to leave it to me when he passes away. it's a pretty nice piece and i'm kinda looking forward to owning it....not that i want my uncle to die or anything, it's just a nice rifle.

  15. #75
    Just Married AcesandEights's Avatar
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    Prof., he's not electable and I can't see him getting the nomination, but that might very well not be how he sees it.

    "Men choose as their prophets those who tell them that their hopes are true." --Lord Dunsany

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