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Thread: TWD 3x13 "Arrow on the Doorpost" episode discussion...**SPOILERS WITHIN**

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion2213 View Post
    Indeed. Also, I wouldn't waste a single round of ammo or a calorie of energy knowing that in 48 hours I'd be fighting a battle to the death with a group of well armed nutters.

    The walkers can wait, and as you say, provide an extra layer of hurt for the attackers to face.
    Or the governor can send an armored vehicle to drive through the remaining gate allowing walkers access to one doorway away from group. Forcing the group to kill walkers to get back outside and to their vehicles. Wait them out, starve them out. The group isn't big enough to defend a large portion of prison. They need to consolidate and set up specific fields of fire. They should have escape provisions ready to go already. May be time to turn on generators and use power/lights to their advantage. This is going to get violent!!!!
    Last edited by facestabber; 14-Mar-2013 at 09:38 PM. Reason: Spelling

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by facestabber View Post
    Or the governor can send an armored vehicle to drive through the remaining gate allowing walkers access to one doorway away from group. Forcing the group to kill walkers to get back outside and to their vehicles. Wait them out, starve them out. The group isn't big enough to defend a large portion of prison. They need to consolidate and set up specific fields of fire. They should have escape provisions ready to go already. May be time to turn on generators and use power/lights to their advantage. This is going to get violent!!!!
    All fair points mate, the besieged are usually at a disadvantage unless they have massive supplies and impregnable defences, seems our people have neither...all they can really hope for is to draw out the fight and hope to attract hordes of walkers who will lay into the attackers...and of course if they did pull that off, they'd have the (remaining) walkers to deal with after dealing with the attackers.

    The Woodbury folks do seem to hold all the cards at the moment...it's gonna get ugly (and I can't freaking wait!!!)
    Oblivion gallops closer, favoring the spur, sparing the rein - I think we will be gone soon

  3. #63
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    See here's my problem,
    Before Team Prison even takes the field, we all agree that Team Woodbury will have to, at some point, get OUT of their vehicles if they wish to engage Team Prison right? Now, unlike Team Prison, Team Woodbury doesn't have a fence to hide from Walkers behind or a prison to hide inside of. The main body of the Governor's forces are the Woodbury civilians...and I don't see this group...who completely LOST THEIR SHIT when ONE Walker got into Woodbury and bit ONE GUY, being Governor-level-blase about the Walkers.

    The GOVERNOR might think he's superman and not take cover from gunfire while casually gunning down approaching Walkers with a smirk, but I don't think the Sheeple of Woodbury would stay very cohesive with even a smattering of intermittent gunfire at them...while all the while having to gun down more and more Walkers appearing and heading for them.

    Morale is a card in a military conflict...and Team Woodbury is about two bloody battlefield deaths away from a total rout...at least IMO. So they don't hold all the cards. I'd take Team Prison over Team Woodbury if I were betting my life on which side will be standing when its over...and NOT because they're the show protagonists. Each of them is worth 3-7 of the Woodbury Sheeple.

  4. #64
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    Valid points Wylde. The govs own aggression will be his downfall. He could blockade and not allow resupply then slaughter a starved group or at least force prison to attack positions they fortify. A tactic team prison could use is once Woodbury commits to the attack, sound the siren and call the walkers, sniper on the roof engages engine blocks of every Woodbury vehicle visible.

    On the inside try and funnel walkers into cells along corridors from exterior breech to the stronghold. When the aggressors commit to a gunfight in the corridor, open the cells electronically or from behind build up cover. Plus the hand grenades and tear gas will come in handy for inside attackers, that is if team prison has gas masks. Damn I can't wait

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    I've seen mentioned somewhere in another thread maybe something about how Rick's gang should've molotov cocktailed their asses back the last time they paid a visit to Woodbury. Maybe they should've done it up good to make their numbers at the prison possibly look bigger than they actually are. Looking back, they should've preemptive struck the bejesus outta them...

  6. #66
    Twitching sandrock74's Avatar
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    The Woodbury crew will have to be in the open in any attack made on the prison. The prison crew is inside the prison and sheltered.

    Which side would you rather be on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by facestabber View Post
    Valid points Wylde. The govs own aggression will be his downfall. He could blockade and not allow resupply then slaughter a starved group or at least force prison to attack positions they fortify. A tactic team prison could use is once Woodbury commits to the attack, sound the siren and call the walkers, sniper on the roof engages engine blocks of every Woodbury vehicle visible.

    On the inside try and funnel walkers into cells along corridors from exterior breech to the stronghold. When the aggressors commit to a gunfight in the corridor, open the cells electronically or from behind build up cover. Plus the hand grenades and tear gas will come in handy for inside attackers, that is if team prison has gas masks. Damn I can't wait

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    The grenades would have a secondary benefit as well,
    Woodbury troops killed in their explosion(s) would almost certainly reanimate...near the survivors of the Woodbury troops. Plus it all goes back to morale. I simply cannot believe that the Woodbury Sheeple have the stones to engage in close-quarters combat within the prison. Once the first grenade and tear gas canister gets lobbed their way whatever shred of determination they might've had would go up in smoke.

    One thing I hope we DON'T see anymore of is the sudden inexplicable loss of previously demonstrated proficiency with firearms by members of Team Prison. It felt very heavy-handed and forced when they did that during the Gov's initial surprise attack...and would quickly go from annoying to infuriating if they continued the trend. Every member of Team Prison, INCLUDING CAROL has been shown headshot bullseyeing Walkers from distances greater than 45ft with the first shot from a semi-auto weapon. I refuse to believe that level of proficiency wouldn't translate into center-mass hits at 3x that distance. It does the portrayed conflict an injustice when they artificially perpetuate it with these sudden bouts of wildly inaccurate shooting. Pick a general level of proficiency and move forward from there, is all I'm saying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyldwraith View Post
    The grenades would have a secondary benefit as well,
    One thing I hope we DON'T see anymore of is the sudden inexplicable loss of previously demonstrated proficiency with firearms by members of Team Prison. It felt very heavy-handed and forced when they did that during the Gov's initial surprise attack...and would quickly go from annoying to infuriating if they continued the trend. Every member of Team Prison, INCLUDING CAROL has been shown headshot bullseyeing Walkers from distances greater than 45ft with the first shot from a semi-auto weapon. I refuse to believe that level of proficiency wouldn't translate into center-mass hits at 3x that distance. It does the portrayed conflict an injustice when they artificially perpetuate it with these sudden bouts of wildly inaccurate shooting. Pick a general level of proficiency and move forward from there, is all I'm saying.
    it's different shooting the living. or, more succinctly, the dead don't shoot back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyldwraith View Post
    The grenades would have a secondary benefit as well,
    Woodbury troops killed in their explosion(s) would almost certainly reanimate...near the survivors of the Woodbury troops. Plus it all goes back to morale. I simply cannot believe that the Woodbury Sheeple have the stones to engage in close-quarters combat within the prison. Once the first grenade and tear gas canister gets lobbed their way whatever shred of determination they might've had would go up in smoke.

    One thing I hope we DON'T see anymore of is the sudden inexplicable loss of previously demonstrated proficiency with firearms by members of Team Prison. It felt very heavy-handed and forced when they did that during the Gov's initial surprise attack...and would quickly go from annoying to infuriating if they continued the trend. Every member of Team Prison, INCLUDING CAROL has been shown headshot bullseyeing Walkers from distances greater than 45ft with the first shot from a semi-auto weapon. I refuse to believe that level of proficiency wouldn't translate into center-mass hits at 3x that distance. It does the portrayed conflict an injustice when they artificially perpetuate it with these sudden bouts of wildly inaccurate shooting. Pick a general level of proficiency and move forward from there, is all I'm saying.
    I think you're dead right on both points. I just can't buy the Woodbury force as formidable at all. The slightest hint at resistance should make them cowar. Not sure how the writers will give us this battle but they better not turn the Woodbury clan into Navy Seals. The opposit should be applied for team prison who at one point was executing head shots from moving vehicles. Tactics and team work should considerably favor team prison. And they are protecting their home which always makes for a tough fight(think Vietnam/afghan). How the gov convinces Woodbury people to attack rather than defend will be interesting.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyldwraith View Post
    The grenades would have a secondary benefit as well,
    Woodbury troops killed in their explosion(s) would almost certainly reanimate...near the survivors of the Woodbury troops. Plus it all goes back to morale. I simply cannot believe that the Woodbury Sheeple have the stones to engage in close-quarters combat within the prison. Once the first grenade and tear gas canister gets lobbed their way whatever shred of determination they might've had would go up in smoke.

    One thing I hope we DON'T see anymore of is the sudden inexplicable loss of previously demonstrated proficiency with firearms by members of Team Prison. It felt very heavy-handed and forced when they did that during the Gov's initial surprise attack...and would quickly go from annoying to infuriating if they continued the trend. Every member of Team Prison, INCLUDING CAROL has been shown headshot bullseyeing Walkers from distances greater than 45ft with the first shot from a semi-auto weapon. I refuse to believe that level of proficiency wouldn't translate into center-mass hits at 3x that distance. It does the portrayed conflict an injustice when they artificially perpetuate it with these sudden bouts of wildly inaccurate shooting. Pick a general level of proficiency and move forward from there, is all I'm saying.
    I think you're dead right on both points. I just can't buy the Woodbury force as formidable at all. The slightest hint at resistance should make them cowar. Not sure how the writers will give us this battle but they better not turn the Woodbury clan into Navy Seals. The opposit should be applied for team prison who at one point was executing head shots from moving vehicles. Tactics and team work should considerably favor team prison. And they are protecting their home which always makes for a tough fight(think Vietnam/afghan). How the gov convinces Woodbury people to attack rather than defend will be interesting.

  11. #71
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    If I was team Rick I would throw open the gates to the outside of the prison and let all the walkers in, then withdraw everyone into the belly of the prison and sit tight for the Woodbury crew to arrive. Team Woodbury would waste a lot of ammo clearing out the walkers before they could even attempt entry into the prison, then they would have to find a way in which would be quite difficult without C4/Dynamite/Rocket launchers/Tanks/Bulldozers, none of which have been seen in Woodbury so far! If they managed to get inside the prison, the defenders would hold all the cards, knowing the layout of the place and having locked all the security gates shut. Close quarters fighting would likely result in team Woodbury losing most of its fighters, think the battle of Monte Casino where German paratroopers held off the entire allied army for months despite constant assaults and heavy bombing. I doubt the Woodbury lot would even be able to burn team Rick out, the prison is mostly brick & steel.

  12. #72
    Just been bitten Morto Vivente's Avatar
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    **SPOILER** Sneak Peek Episode 14 Assault possibilities.

    [SPOILER]Possibly the governor is modifying walkers to bolster his offensive, or he's just offering them a dental plan.

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=gBQubMM9G6E

  13. #73
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    I'm guessing some serious armament will show up on the Gov's side. He did take out the National Guardsmen, and I would think that they would have some serious weaponry that wouldn't have been used/useful against walkers but would against the living.

  14. #74
    Walking Dead Legion2213's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Staredge View Post
    I'm guessing some serious armament will show up on the Gov's side. He did take out the National Guardsmen, and I would think that they would have some serious weaponry that wouldn't have been used/useful against walkers but would against the living.
    Wan't Michonne fiddling around with a .50 cal in woodburry? I expect they've got a few bits of tasty military kit hanging around.

    That said, there were a few heavy duty sniper rifles in "crazy Morgans den o'delights"...a few well placed/defended marksmen in choice positions could really put the hurt on the Governors attackers.

    Fuck! I can't wait for tonights episode!!!
    Oblivion gallops closer, favoring the spur, sparing the rein - I think we will be gone soon

  15. #75
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    There's so much they COULD do. Like I said a few pages back, team prison needs to become a group of insurgents. They need to use force multipliers. But you have to remember that the prison is under constant watch by team woodbury.
    They have a small window of time right now before the next meeting to setup some serious defenses. But it has to be done mostly inside the prison. They have the benefit of knowing the exact layout of the prison. And forcing a bunch of kids and old ladies to go inside a dark prison and fight in close quarters gives them an added advantage.
    Woodbury, IMO, is not holding many cards. Only 2. More people, more supplies.
    They'll advance on the prison, and all those inexperienced fighters will become a liability to themselves. They have less than 40 fighters. A certain amount of those people will turn and run as soon as they see one of their own bite it. That's guaranteed. Running into a gun battle is not a natural human response, running AWAY from danger is. So a conservative estimate of how many will run away would be 10-15 people.
    Let's say 10.
    So now we're at say 27 fighters.
    Of that 27, how many of them will remain outside the prison while a smaller group of more confident and aggressive people will push in?
    Then, how many of those people that remain outside will be overcome by walkers? TV rules here.
    These are people that aren't proficient with their weapons also. They may have had a crash course with them, but they aren't anywhere near being proficient enough to deal with stove pipes and other malfunctions. They will also be sloppy and not very efficient when it comes to mag changes. We also know that team woodbury likes to waste ammo and use their weapons on full auto. How much ammo can they carry on their person? They'll likely go through it quick.
    So if team woodbury is forced to pursue team prison back into the tombs, they are at an extreme disadvantage. Not only are there sporadic walkers throughout the tombs, but they're also being forced into a "fatal funnel" scenario. You'll have a group of inexperienced, inefficient fighters grouped up in tight quarters moving through the tombs. So as they're funneling through small hallways, a couple people from team prison positioned right at the end of these tight halls from a defensible position, and 2 people could easily take out 10 or more woodbury fighters.
    That only has to happen once. And everyone else that's stuck in those halls will panic. They don't know where they're going, they don't know what's behind this door or that door. They'll fire off all there ammo in a panic.
    None of woodbury's heavy artillery will do any good while they're fighting it out in the tombs. It will come down to individual fighters, the amount of ammo they have, whether they panic or not, and whether team prison has strategically positioned themselves throughout or not.

    If team prison just sits there all scared and makes no preperations and waits for team woodbury to arrive, then it's a much different situation. In this weeks episode, Glenn and Carl were already stashing ammo around the prison, Glen was cutting out rifle perch's in the fence.
    But as long as they force woodbury to pursue them inside the tombs, I think team prison automatically has the advantage and will come out on top.
    They have grenades. They can use Vietnam era tactics and setup booby traps with tripwires. Put them inside coffee cans filled with nails and screws.
    Aim center of mass, so everyone they kill comes back and attacks their own teammates. Put walkers in cells in the tombs so when they hear woodbury people coming through they attack, or set-off a booby trap as they come out of the cells.
    Team prisons options are almost unlimited. While team woodbury's options are extremely limited.
    Last edited by babomb; 17-Mar-2013 at 08:27 AM. Reason: fun

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