"The Dark Knight" - Sort of less impressed!

[EvilNed]

Were you and I watching the same movie? The Hospital segment is one of the most important in TDK. It's when Harvey Dent(arguably the main character of the film) fully turns into an antagonist. His last bit of good is stripped away by Joker's lecture about society's willingness to crumble when plans go awry and how it's all nothing more than chance. The movie literally couldn't exist without that scene.... Actually, yes it could. Just crop the last 30 minutes right off the film, and you've got a complete film right there, with a start, middle and end. Oh, and crop the Hong Kong subplot as well. What was that all about?

[bassman]

Actually, yes it could. Just crop the last 30 minutes right off the film, and you've got a complete film right there, with a start, middle and end. So Dent would just decide out of nowhere that "Hey...I think I'm gonna go on a killing spree"? That would make no sense to have him go from the hero to villain with no explanation. The Hospital scene was definitely needed. The Hong Kong bit...yeah, that could've been removed. Basically they only did that to show that Batman isn't limited to Gotham. Pointless to the story, really.

[Mitchified]

I like that perspective, actually. Gives me hope the Bane storyline they're using for the last film they're making is the arc I've heard about; Bane letting loose all the villians in Arkham. That'd be crazy if done right. Especially the culmination, which would be a great way to end the trilogy in a dark, realistic fashion Nolan might find suitable to leave the series with. It's doubtful. There aren't really all that many villains in Arkham at this point, especially major players. As it stands now, assuming that Jonathan Crane got taken there after he was captured in The Dark Knight, there would only be Zsasz, Scarecrow, and Joker. Nolan has said in interviews that he won't have anyone else play the Joker after Ledger's death, so that makes it just Zsasz and Scarecrow. Plus it would be very similiar to Batman Begins if you think about it, when all the criminals were roaming the streets. Frankly I'm not sure I want to see Bane in the new movie.. A Knightfall-esque storyline couldn't really be done in a single movie, and outside of Knightfall, Bane has been a fairly generic villain. Besides, the entire point of Bane was that Batman had reached the peak of his strength and was almost untouchable, and along came this mysterious individual that was his complete antithesis. Bane wasn't just as good as Batman, he was BETTER than him. Physically stronger due to the Venom and a master detective in his own right (he deduced that Bruce Wayne was Batman simply by watching Bruce move around). The Nolan movies are too early in Batman's career to have Bane be such a huge impact. What the franchise needs for the finale is Hugo Strange. Specifically the Hugo Strange that appeared in the Prey storyline. A completely cerebral villain that would be a completely different animal than going up against the anarchist Joker or the chance-dependant Two Face. In Prey, Strange completely dissects Batman psychologically and brings him to the breaking point emotionally all while being completely insane himself. He didn't just want to defeat Batman, he wanted to be Batman. Prey was what Batman RIP wished it could have been. So I say use Hugo Strange as your main villain, and have Bane be the secondary villain. But that's just me.

[bassman]

That's actually who I though Hardy was going to play when they first announced him in an unspecified role. Strange would've been interesting. And the Prey storyline could be a fitting next step to the trilogy considering Batman's current state with the police and catwoman coming in. Who knows? Maybe Strange could still be in the flcik and they haven't announced it yet.

[Mitchified]

Having Bane in the film probably rules out Hugo Strange. Assuming that they use the comic book depiction of Bane, that is. There was a huge emphasis put on Bane's intellect during his first storyline in Knightfall, so I doubt that they would use another character that is completely based around his intellect. Plus God only knows how many monologues there would have to be for both Bane AND Strange; neither character ever shuts up. Now, what I could see is Hugo Strange being brought in by Gotham PD in an adviser role, the way that he was originally introduced in Prey. He could be one of the key figures in the manhunt for Batman after the ending of The Dark Knight, putting together psychological profiles and whatnot. I just can't see him taking the next step and becoming one of the film's main villains, not with Bane in the picture. Which is a shame since Strange is so much stronger of a character than Bane.

[bassman]

Perhaps he'll get a passing mention like Zsasz in Begins? You've got a point, though. It would be interesting to have Strange come in a minor role for a fourth movie, but seeing how this is the final film I doubt Nolan will leave any loose ends like that. I'm kinda disappointed that he won't be bringing Penguin to the big screen. He's always said he didn't like the character too much, but I really wanted him to bring him to the screen and wash away the public's memory of Burton's Penguin abomination....

[Mitchified]

I still remember being amazed that Burton killed off the Penguin at the end. It just seemed wrong somehow that the Penguin of all people died. To this day I can't explain why it felt so strange, but it did. That, and the movie managed to somehow take everything that makes the Penguin interesting, flush it down the toilet, and replace it with Danny DeVito acting like a cross between Ted Kennedy and Ted Bundy. Besides Hugo Strange, I would have loved to see Nolan's take on the Ventriloquist. I've always had a soft spot for him (Arnold Wesker, not Sugar). It would also have been interesting to see how he handled a character that didn't fit as well into his more realistic Batman universe, like a Clayface or Killer Croc. Black Mask might have been interesting to see if he was used a person that has come to Gotham to fill the power vacuum that the severe losses the crime families have suffered has caused.

[bassman]

Black Mask and Dead Shot were two I figured would be used. They seemed perfect to fit into Nolan's hyper realistic world. Also kinda disappointed we didn't see Bat Mite or Crazt Quilt!

[Mitchified]

There's still time for the Batman of Zur-En-Arrh and the Creeper! I have faith that Nolan couldn't possibly end his series without those two gems. I really wish Nolan would stick around for a few more films so that we could see Hush. I read an interview a while back where he said that he loved the character, but he wasn't the sort of character that you could bring in without buildup. Hush would have been absolutely perfect as a villain in this portrayal of Gotham City.

[EvilNed]

So Dent would just decide out of nowhere that "Hey...I think I'm gonna go on a killing spree"? That would make no sense to have him go from the hero to villain with no explanation. The Hospital scene was definitely needed. Hence: Cropping the last 30 minutes off it.

[bassman]

Hence: Cropping the last 30 minutes off it. I don't have copy in front of me, but I imagine if you crop off the last 30 minutes your left somewhere in the middle of the high rise "sonar" scene. You've already seen Dent become Harvey Two Face, kill several people, etc. Dropping the explanation of his transformation would be disasterous. Especially considering the movie is about that character. Some of the gangster and Hong Kong plots could have been cut, but not so much Dent's.

[SymphonicX]

Were you and I watching the same movie? The Hospital segment is one of the most important in TDK. It's when Harvey Dent(arguably the main character of the film) fully turns into an antagonist. His last bit of good is stripped away by Joker's lecture about society's willingness to crumble when plans go awry and how it's all nothing more than chance. The movie literally couldn't exist without that scene.... Nothing a few rewrites couldn't have sorted....OK so if Ledger was dead by the point they realised this, they realised too late...if at all. It wasn't an important scene - the penultimate moment of that section of the movie is important - as you say, Dent's journey into madness - but the lead in "family members in hospitals", the Wayne empire employee who was going to reveal batmans identity, the whole section - was massively extraneous. ---------- Post added at 09:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:37 AM ---------- I don't have copy in front of me, but I imagine if you crop off the last 30 minutes your left somewhere in the middle of the high rise "sonar" scene. You've already seen Dent become Harvey Two Face, kill several people, etc. Dropping the explanation of his transformation would be disasterous. Especially considering the movie is about that character. Some of the gangster and Hong Kong plots could have been cut, but not so much Dent's. Once again, don't assume I mean this in a literal sense of actually slicing out 30 mins of the movie - I'm saying the last 30 mins didn't need to be there, should have been written better and condensed rather than just shooting what felt like a rough draft at times.

[shootemindehead]

Nolan can't do much right in my eyes - Inception was a killer though, what a beautifully executed movie - Memento?

[SymphonicX]

and momento - Guy Pearce made that movie though

[JonOfTheShred]

It's doubtful. There aren't really all that many villains in Arkham at this point, especially major players. As it stands now, assuming that Jonathan Crane got taken there after he was captured in The Dark Knight, there would only be Zsasz, Scarecrow, and Joker. Nolan has said in interviews that he won't have anyone else play the Joker after Ledger's death, so that makes it just Zsasz and Scarecrow. Plus it would be very similiar to Batman Begins if you think about it, when all the criminals were roaming the streets. Frankly I'm not sure I want to see Bane in the new movie.. A Knightfall-esque storyline couldn't really be done in a single movie, and outside of Knightfall, Bane has been a fairly generic villain. Besides, the entire point of Bane was that Batman had reached the peak of his strength and was almost untouchable, and along came this mysterious individual that was his complete antithesis. Bane wasn't just as good as Batman, he was BETTER than him. Physically stronger due to the Venom and a master detective in his own right (he deduced that Bruce Wayne was Batman simply by watching Bruce move around). The Nolan movies are too early in Batman's career to have Bane be such a huge impact. What the franchise needs for the finale is Hugo Strange. Specifically the Hugo Strange that appeared in the Prey storyline. A completely cerebral villain that would be a completely different animal than going up against the anarchist Joker or the chance-dependant Two Face. In Prey, Strange completely dissects Batman psychologically and brings him to the breaking point emotionally all while being completely insane himself. He didn't just want to defeat Batman, he wanted to be Batman. Prey was what Batman RIP wished it could have been. So I say use Hugo Strange as your main villain, and have Bane be the secondary villain. But that's just me. All very true points. But I'd actually prefer the film trilogy end with Batmans back breaking, not having it midway through the film, but towards the end if not in the last scene, to solidify the end of Nolans trilogy. I guess it's since I don't really care too much for this trilogy to begin with. I was hoping for a "Godzilla: Final Wars" type ending which obviously would NEVER happen with the Nolans behind the film. But I like to entertain the thought.