TWD 2x01 "What Lies Ahead" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[bassman]

I noticed this too, but I don't have a problem with it. Reminds me of Dreyfuss looking at the camera in 'Jaws'. What's the issue you have with this Bassy? 4th wall stuff? Yeah, 4th wall. I see that kid says Lincoln's done this before, but I don't remember it. If he did, it must not have been as obvious. In the new premiere he stares for a good five seconds. Just rubbed me the wrong way... I have all of the books and I don't remember Karl getting shot. Hmmmm...   Yeah....shot by Otis and then taken to Hershel's farm. The tv series is keeping it pretty much the same except for I believe in the comic series Otis thought he was a zombie rather than hitting him while shooting the deer.

[AcesandEights]

Lincoln looks right into the camera in the pilot as well when Rick and Shane are sitting in the cop car having their conversation about women Isn't that a character PoV shot, though? From Shane's point of view?

[shootemindehead]

Yeah....shot by Otis and then taken to Hershel's farm. The tv series is keeping it pretty much the same except for I believe in the comic series Otis thought he was a zombie rather than hitting him while shooting the deer. Wow, I don't recall that at all!

[AcesandEights]

Wow, I don't recall that at all! I completely forgot about it myself, but that did happen quite some time ago in the books and it's been a few years since I read it. Also, thank you for spoiler tagging it, Bass. Spoilers about the episode in this thread are cool, of course, spoilers about future issues of the comic book that may impact future episodes I would still hope people would tag. And, yes, people have been generally cool about that, especially considering how tempting it is at times during conversations about the 'rules' concerning the zombies.

[Vulture Lives]

Me neither and I think that Romero's cannon is the template for Kirkman's zombies anyway. Either way, they were sitting around on busses in the first series and Morgan's dead Mrs knew the way to her front door, so it's not beyond the show to have them sit in a church. Gah! My problem wasn't with the fact that the zombies were sitting in church. I imagine that if zombies were locked in a room with no food source to pursue, they would eventually give up and slump down in a corner somewhere. The zombies on the busses did exactly that... they had no food source to pursue, so they just slumped down until stimulated by Rick's presence. The thing is, the zombies on the busses had body posture that was consistent with a zombie. The zombies in the church didn't. It's all in my previous posts. And, no, Romero's canon isn't the template for Kirkman's zombies. Yes, Romero is obviously Kirkman's biggest inspiration, but there are differences. For example, Kirkman has gone on record and said that his zombies will never learn or become intelligent. If you want to talk about what's canon and what isn't, then refer to last year's season finale. Remember Jenner's research on his wife's brain? He specifically states that memories do not return, and the display of his wife's brain was rather convincing. That's canon at this point in time.

[DEAD BEAT]

Can't wait 4 more!

[kidgloves]

Isn't that a character PoV shot, though? From Shane's point of view? I don't think so. I'd have to check though. It stands out to me everytime

[shootemindehead]

Gah! My problem wasn't with the fact that the zombies were sitting in church. I imagine that if zombies were locked in a room with no food source to pursue, they would eventually give up and slump down in a corner somewhere. The zombies on the busses did exactly that... they had no food source to pursue, so they just slumped down until stimulated by Rick's presence. The thing is, the zombies on the busses had body posture that was consistent with a zombie. The zombies in the church didn't. It's all in my previous posts. Yeh, we get it. Relax. Put it down to what you want, bad acting, cheap shot, whatever. The scene is still fine as far as I'm concerned and it's certainly not the worst thing about the show's zombies. Remember Jenner's research on his wife's brain? He specifically states that memories do not return, and the display of his wife's brain was rather convincing. That's canon at this point in time. All I recall is Janner saying that everything from the person we knew is gone. I don't recall him saying anything about memory. Either way, Janner would hardly be an authority. He blew his wife away on the first move. Who knows what happens with the zombies after their synapses have been firing for a while. There have been no hard and fast rules laid down. Maybe the zeds were remembering to sit up straight in church. Maybe they'd only just got there, 5 minutes before Rick and the gang, called to the church by the bell.

[Wyldwraith]

So far as zombie intelligence, miscellaneous mental and physical abilities go in TWD, I'm not so sure that there's really the same sort of defining line in TWD TV version as in the comics or Romero's Dead stuff. We've had zombies that go over a 9-10ft chain-link fence AS easily as Rick and Glenn in "Guts", while earlier in the very same episode we saw zombies doing a poor-to-fair job of negotiating the first ladder Rick and Glenn went up immediately after Rick meeting Glenn for the 1st time. In other instances we've clearly seen it demonstrated at least 3-4 times that zombies clearly understand the concept of doors, despite doors being a non-transparent object that blocks any visual perception of their prey. Ie: Morgan's wife jiggling the door knob to the house Rick, Morgan and Duane were in. If Walkers have no memory, then they MUST be recognizing at the simplest that doors represent easier points of access to a structure. We see this again when the noise Andrea made in the RV betrayed her and that zombie didn't even pause before going STRAIGHT for the bathroom door, despite the fact that even to a person those sliding-closed or folding RV bathroom doors can be hard to recognize as anything but more paneling unless you look for the bathroom door...grip/handle. See what I mean? It's gotta be the one or the other. Either residual memory or minimal reasoning skills without human memory. The absence of both would preclude the scene with Andrea and the zombie in the RV. Not at least without the zombie putting more time into ransacking the rest of the RV. They aren't bats or dolphins, and don't use echo-location or side-scan sonar after all. A noise of something falling somewhere behind the zombie (he was staggering back toward the RV's entrance/exit when Andrea dropped the gun parts and made that brief exclamation)...without any memory OR reasoning could only have resulted in the zombie turning around, going back the way he'd come, and feeling around. That, or stand stupidly in the middle of the RV waiting for more sensory stimulus. That isn't what happened though. That zombie made a beeline straight for the RV bathroom and started forcing his way in. Just my .02...but there it is.

[blind2d]

I just watched it today, this morning, and yeah, y'all are making some good points. I think maybe it was commentary how there were so few zeds in the church, but maybe that's just my twisted mind. Anyhow, yeah, I thought the episode was great, and the woman with the disassembled gun was very not ninja, but good with a screwdriver. She annoys me a bit. Never did like blonds. Anyway, yeah, more on the way? Sounds good to me.

[rongravy]

It's gotta be the one or the other. Either residual memory or minimal reasoning skills without human memory. The absence of both would preclude the scene with Andrea and the zombie in the RV. Not at least without the zombie putting more time into ransacking the rest of the RV. They aren't bats or dolphins, and don't use echo-location or side-scan sonar after all. A noise of something falling somewhere behind the zombie (he was staggering back toward the RV's entrance/exit when Andrea dropped the gun parts and made that brief exclamation)...without any memory OR reasoning could only have resulted in the zombie turning around, going back the way he'd come, and feeling around. That, or stand stupidly in the middle of the RV waiting for more sensory stimulus. That isn't what happened though. That zombie made a beeline straight for the RV bathroom and started forcing his way in. Maybe he could smell that load of timber she was dropping in the john. I know... she wasn't even taking the Browns to the Superbowl. Maybe this was one of those times he could smell her, perhaps from being away from the outside highway stench. On a show with a few inconsistencies, who's going to notice? Well, besides us.

[childofgilead]

After watching the premiere again by myself yesterday, I have to again agree that it was a strong start, at least thematically. I wasn't too crazy about the beginning narration either and it definitely smacked of cruddy green screen after thought fx. Based on some of the stuff going on with the characters, I really hope they aren't setting up a Shane/Andrea romance subplot. I don't know if it's just me coming from the viewpoint of a fan of the comic or what, I just have a hard time dealing with Shane. I mean yeah, he held the group together and he's slowly growing on me for backing up Rick, but I still have to wonder if he's only doing it because he has ulterior motives. He was definitely a little skeezy at the beginning of the first episode, just the look on his face, like he was interested in the status of Ricks' marriage for the wrong reasons. But after the flashback at the hospital in last years finale, I honestly liked the character alot more than I thought I would. But clearly he's starting to have separation issues. Either he's really wanting to leave or he's doing it for attention. Either way, somethings gotta happen. As for Andrea and her gun, as a reader of the comic, I wonder if this is just foreshadowing. I know that Dale is coming off as a bit of a prick, but this is all just characterization. If anything, I think that everyone is taking the end of the world almost a little TOO well. They're still being very civil with one another, considering everything else. There's more, but I can't go into detail, since alot of it is spoileriffic and spoiler tags aren't wanting to work for me for some reason. edit: Maybe the walkers following them were from another roadblock or something, that they'd awoken from hibernation from driving through? Meh, probably not.

[Gemini]

Okay I'm back on the board now that season 2 is underway! The premiere episode was awesome! I was hoping the series would go back to the quality of its pilot episode and I think they succeeded. As I've stated before, season 1 took a steep dive after the initial episode for a variety of reasons. Those reasons were thoroughly corrected in this episode - -the tension and feeling of serious dread is back -the zombies are a much more believable menace, both in numbers (the awesome horde on the highway) and in behavior (becoming frenzied and semi-running when stimulated and in "attack mode") -there were no obvious plot holes or implausibilities and it seemed they even made an effort to advance their zombie mythology and close some season 1 plot holes (explanation of the roaming "herd" of zombies at the campground for instance) -the dialogue was strong, believable, and added depth to the characters Also, season 1 was strong in this regard as well but the zombie makeup - WOW - seriously the best and most realistic looking zombies I've ever seen on screen. So, hats off to the crew - let's keep the momentum going! BTW I am still amazed at the extreme gore, and the high ratings. Good stuff. One more thing, why the hell wouldn't Shane want to take the hot blonde with him when he leaves Dodge? He said he didn't want to have an extra ass to cover. Hmm I could think of other things her ass might be good for... particularly in an apocalypse!

[kidgloves]

Don't know if its been mentioned yet, but the rumours are the 2nd eason premiere is actually 2 episodes put together and it was these episodes that resulted in Darabont being pulled from the editing room. It would explain the 2 directorial credits as well.

[Trin]

I enjoyed the Season 2 first episode. Although I have many many opinions about everything that has been discussed, I'm not going to get into nit-picking or deep analysis now. I just want to make one point. I loved the scene between Andrea and Dale. Last season we all applaud Dale for saving her. This season we start off with a bang as she lashes out because she didn't *want* to be saved, and in fact it was SHE who saved HIM, and against her will. Whether you agree or disagree, it's brilliantly played. But my point is... we love to talk about GAR and social commentary. Let's give a round of applause to TWD for confronting the topic of "right to choose" and doing it so well that we hardly even knew it was there! It wasn't shoe-horned in. It fit perfectly into the plot and character development. And just look at the discussion it's generated!