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Thread: The Avengers (film)

  1. #61
    Webmaster Neil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MinionZombie View Post
    Again, misinterpreting what I'm saying ... what is it with you people?

    *dissolves into the shadows*
    Didn't you know? It's cooool to hate popular successful films and directors. And I mean 'hate' because it's even more coool to actually berate them ("$hit" / "rubbish" / "crap") beyond any level of reason!?
    Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. [click for more]
    -Carl Sagan

  2. #62
    through another dimension bassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krisvds View Post
    How anyone can go see a movie about costumed superheroes and NOT expect to turn their brains off should have their brains checked. Seriously, what were they expecting?
    There have been several superhero films that prove the genre can go beyond the usual cliches. Nolan's Batman films, Raimi's first two Spiderman films, Donner's two Superman films, etc. Action and spectacle will always be a cornerstone of superhero movies, but very few of them are able to go beyond that. The Avengers probably could have been much more, but instead it rests comfortably as only a spectacle film.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    Didn't you know? It's cooool to hate popular successful films and directors. And I mean 'hate' because it's even more coool to actually berate them ("$hit" / "rubbish" / "crap") beyond any level of reason!?
    To be fair, not everyone with negative comments toward a popular film is the same. I have negative comments about Avengers, but i'm not going against it simply because it's popular right now. Although I do know the type you're referring to....
    Last edited by bassman; 05-May-2012 at 09:33 PM. Reason: .

  3. #63
    Just Married AcesandEights's Avatar
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    Just got back from watching it. I don't really know how they could have done a better Avengers movie. Objectively there were some issues, especially near the front end, but I laughed and appreciated the ride so much, I'd definitely say it was the best time I've had in a theater in a long ass time, and definitely a film that was made better by appreciating alongside the rest of the house. A lot of laughs, action that was fairly relentless, but somehow nicely punctuated with the laughter and plot points that it somehow didn't get old for me.

    "Men choose as their prophets those who tell them that their hopes are true." --Lord Dunsany

  4. #64
    certified super rad Danny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    Didn't you know? It's cooool to hate popular successful films and directors. And I mean 'hate' because it's even more coool to actually berate them ("$hit" / "rubbish" / "crap") beyond any level of reason!?
    and again heres that internet backlash again. the 'fan or hater' divide. if you dislike a film then you can ONLY be saying its the worst dogshit committed to celluloid, because you arent allowed to just think something was merely dull. then you must be one of 'the haters' saying its the worst thing ever...

    There are varying degrees of liking or disliking a film, and for different reasons as well. be it loving a film for its acting instead of the story, or being disappointed over wasted potential instead of just hating it for stupid parts or something.

    Honestly the 'get hype!' marketing schtik that indoctrinates people into defending films because they are, quote, "BIG MOVIES" is a disturbing trend. like removing 'dislike buttons' from facebook and the like its one more sign of the modern media consumer audience being trained like dogs to recognise any dissenting opinion as all part of one big pot of "the haters" who "simply be hating" from a checklist of things such as "because its popular" or "its cool" or "its the recent thing to hate on". Time was you were allowed to be critical about film. Now you are with us or against us and that means you are 'US' a brand loyalty supporter, or 'THEM' the haters who wish to destroy all that is good in the universe then kill your dog.

    As a guy with a film degree whos watched a lot of cinema, and whos read the avengers weekly over the last 20 years as well as the back issues i think my opinion of 'it wasnt that great' is little more honest than 'LOL THIS IS POPULAR TIME TO GET HATAN'. The 'hater' witch hunt is a bloody childish idea and as i previously said a disturbing trend in the general public being trained like dogs to be the reactionary marketing damage control defence force for the studios online.

    Film is an experience. One you enjoy or do not. It deserves your praise or criticism based on your own standards. There is no clear wrong or right in enjoyment and that is unique to the person. Any idea otherwise works under the assumption that taste can be argued and therefore has a 'right' and 'wrong' taste. If you think thats true you probably fall into the 'us or them' black and white fans or haters rhetoric which means you aren't up for discussion on the merits or faults of film anymore. the advertisers got you, you are part of the machine now, and heresy such a this is the highest of insults to every film you liked forever when all of it stems from- "i thought the avengers was dull, boring and wasted an opportunity its about as good as green lantern" "....HATER!, GET 'IM! PROTECT THE FILM! PROTECT THE FIIIILLLMMMMM!"

    I think its telling that nobody goes into threads for blockbusters these days going 'you like the film?! whats wrong with you?"

    but the moment someone says they disliked it they are ripe for being told how "wrong" they are.

    Because negative opinions aren't allowed. that would be hating and thats simply not done.

    Just something to think about.
    Last edited by Danny; 06-May-2012 at 06:48 AM. Reason: dh


  5. #65
    Webmaster Neil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny View Post
    Film is an experience. One you enjoy or do not. It deserves your praise or criticism based on your own standards.
    There seems to be an approach by some people when not enjoying a particular film or director, to level criticism that seems holy unfair and verging on irrational. Recently we've seen "rubbish" and "$hit" and "crap" levelled at James Cameron and also at Sam Raimi for example.

    Now, no one is saying that the director/films in question cannot be criticised, or that their products will please everyone. But it's plain to see for most fair minded people that the films/directors are far from "rubbish", "$hit" or "crap". Maybe someone can find they don't enjoy the results on the silver screen but one would hope they could still realise that there's areas of good solid film making involved that lifts them far out of the bottom of the gutter.

    In summary, it seems some people are simply unable to see the greys between black and white, or simply feel the need to level criticism thats complelety over the top and unfair as if reacting to the success of the director/film. ie: The more successful the film/director, the more I have to criticise it because I didn't enjoy it.
    Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. [click for more]
    -Carl Sagan

  6. #66
    Team Rick MinionZombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    Didn't you know? It's cooool to hate popular successful films and directors. And I mean 'hate' because it's even more coool to actually berate them ("$hit" / "rubbish" / "crap") beyond any level of reason!?


    Yeah, I hate those kind of folks ... not talking about anyone specific here on HPOTD, but that kind of person out there ... yeah, I can't stand them and their hipster bullshit.

    Quote Originally Posted by AcesandEights View Post
    Just got back from watching it. I don't really know how they could have done a better Avengers movie. Objectively there were some issues, especially near the front end, but I laughed and appreciated the ride so much, I'd definitely say it was the best time I've had in a theater in a long ass time, and definitely a film that was made better by appreciating alongside the rest of the house. A lot of laughs, action that was fairly relentless, but somehow nicely punctuated with the laughter and plot points that it somehow didn't get old for me.
    Glad you dug it. I had an absolute blast with it too - the whole audience was really into it, which made up for the lacklustre over-the-counter service from the staff (who have got dumber and slower since the last time I was there, and even then they weren't that switched on). There were uproarious moments of laughter, at just the right times (as you said above), which really brought the audience together to appreciate it.

    And what's more, no mouthy four-year-old gobshite like last year when I went to see Captain America. There was some father with his shouty little progeny, who at one point leaped up and screamed "HULK SMASH!" (wrong franchise, dope ), and just wouldn't shut the hell up - really ill-behaved - so in all the quiet moments you had that chattery little git jabbering away like a Jakovasaur or something just as annoying. At least the loud bits masked him ... ... but in The Avengers there was no such interruption, which was sweet-as.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    In summary, it seems some people are simply unable to see the greys between black and white, or simply feel the need to level criticism thats complelety over the top and unfair as if reacting to the success of the director/film. ie: The more successful the film/director, the more I have to criticise it because I didn't enjoy it.
    Referring back several days - like how Danny commented about 'Amazon reviewers' - the sort of folks who give bile-fuelled 1 star reviews. I wouldn't disregard 4 or 5 star reviews as he seemed to suggest though - if they're just "oh this was awesome" and that's it, then that's not much help, but I've seen many well written and reasoned 4 and 5 star reviews on Amazon and other such websites. 1 and 2 stars are also only useful if there is actually a proper reason - or a consitent enough problem (e.g. if it's a gadget, or tech thing) - that is put forth properly.

    That is all.

  7. #67
    Webmaster Neil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MinionZombie View Post
    1 and 2 stars are also only useful if there is actually a proper reason - or a consitent enough problem (e.g. if it's a gadget, or tech thing) - that is put forth properly.

    That is all.
    Is a one star review for a film that's clearly reasonably well made and executed, ever useful? Is an opinion of "$hit", "rubbish" or "crap" ever of any use when levelled at a film or director clearly which/who, at worse, could be average?

    All such (exteme) opinions/views are based of on "standards" so removed from what others would consider fair or logical, IMHO to be seen practically worthless!
    Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. [click for more]
    -Carl Sagan

  8. #68
    Feeding shootemindehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    There seems to be an approach by some people when not enjoying a particular film or director, to level criticism that seems holy unfair and verging on irrational. Recently we've seen "rubbish" and "$hit" and "crap" levelled at James Cameron and also at Sam Raimi for example.
    Ok, well this is a swipe at me, obviously.

    I've already said that I don't think that Cameron is that great a director and explained why I didn't think 'Titanic' was the greatest movie experience in the world. They're opinions based on having watched his films and being critical of them. He did hit the mark, with 'The Terminator' and 'Aliens', however, as stated previously. Cameron takes the helm of large projects usually and for that he seems to get accolades that focus beyond his directorial umph. But, when the shininess of the new tech wears off, you're left with characters, pacing, dialogue and acting. These are the final and most important marks for a director and in that, I think cameron fails more than he succeeds. His limitations as a director of people becomes clearer when the smoke settles.

    I've also explained why I think Raimi is a "rubbish" director and one only has to look at his output (of which I've seen everything, bar the two student films he made before 'The Evil Dead'). They aren't good films by a long shot, although, I have said that I liked 'A Simple Plan' (even if it isn't that memorable) and again, there isn't a doubt in my mind that his new 'Poltergeist' effort will run the gamut of mediocre to woeful. Because, simply put, his previous efforts don't promise much. Maybe Sam has a great film in there just waiting to burst out, but I'm not holding my breath.

    Again, these are opinions based on having viewed the directors material, in some cases more than once. It's not based on any zeitgeist, or a popularity contest. I couldn't give a fuck what people thought of what I think. But, it's what I think nonetheless.

    I even watched 'Titanic' again, after the Cameron thread and my opinion hasn't changed. While it's accomplished effects wise, it a failure in other departments, like characterisation, pacing, script, dialogue and acting and that won't change no matter how many times I watch it. The same can be said for 'Avatar', which I only watched a few months ago for the first time. So, I completely avoided the humdrum of it being the "greatest film evar!!!". The same criticism of 'Titanic' can be laid at 'Avatar' too, although it's probably better acted. But, even the effects, this time weren't that stellar.

    You seem to be labouring under the impression that I don't rate Cameron or Raimi in an effort to generate some sort of "kewl". I can assure you, nothing is further from the truth. I am not trying to avoid "shades of grey" either. I am simply just being honest with my opinion.
    Last edited by shootemindehead; 06-May-2012 at 03:39 PM. Reason: .
    I'm runnin' this monkey farm now Frankenstein.....

  9. #69
    Zombie Flesh Eater EvilNed's Avatar
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    Meh, yeah. I'm sort of with shootemindehead here. There seems to be some kind of elitist attitude when it comes to these guys. James Cameron or Sam Raimi (and Peter Jackson!). Are they suddenly above making a shitty film? I like most of what these guys have done. But Avatar is the worst cinema experience I've had since I saw Star Wars Episode 3. I haven't seen it since, and probably never will, but is it so strange that one's views are simply amplified when seeing them in the cinema? I remember seeing Inception and thinking "This is the best film eveeeeer!!!" when walking out, but now after seeing it again I realize that it was probably just me being overly excited. Same goes for Avatar / Lord of the Rings. I hate paying for expensive cinema and seeing something that just turns out to be a big stinking turd.

    And don't speak to me about "objectivity". That word doesn't exist in this context. There is no way that any film is every objectively good or bad. That's rubbish. Nonsense. Avatar is neither good nor bad. It's a film. What matters to me is my opinion of it, and that opinion is based on the experience I had watching it and I had a helluva bad time watching it because everything was so horrible about the film... Everything. And that's my opinion. I ain't a hater of it because it's popular. It certainly irks me when people start creaming their pants left and right whenever someone mentions the CGI, which is still obviously CGI. Or the thin plot. Or the seen-it-before creature designs. I forgot why people even liked it. Probably because of the 3D. Which was shit too (and to this day, 3D is still shit).

  10. #70
    Twitching krisvds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilNed View Post
    And don't speak to me about "objectivity". That word doesn't exist in this context. There is no way that any film is every objectively good or bad. That's rubbish. Nonsense. .
    Troll 2 would like to have a word with you.

  11. #71
    certified super rad Danny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krisvds View Post
    Troll 2 would like to have a word with you.
    troll 2 is transcendant, its literally so fucking awful it is something uniquely amazing because of it. a rarity, but not alone.




  12. #72
    Zombie Flesh Eater EvilNed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krisvds View Post
    Troll 2 would like to have a word with you.
    I've seen the whole film. Had a better time than many (not all) Hollywood blockbusters as well.

  13. #73
    Walking Dead CoinReturn's Avatar
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    http://www.nydailynews.com/entertain...sEnabled=false

    Marvel Studio's "The Avengers" stomped all over box office records on its way to earning $200.3 million in its debut - the greatest opening weekend of all time.


    Good lord.

    Also; Troll 2? The Room? Both great, but I believe Samurai Cop to be the king of awesomely bad movies:



  14. #74
    Feeding shootemindehead's Avatar
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    Wow...just wow.

    By the way, my all time favorite shit/good film is 'Space Mutiny'. If you ever get a chance to see it, you should. That and 'Strike Commando', is a night in to be sure. Stock up on the beers though...or whatever else might get you through...


    Space Mutiny. The trailer's auf Deutsch, but you'll get the idea.




    Strike Commando


    I'm runnin' this monkey farm now Frankenstein.....

  15. #75
    Walking Dead CoinReturn's Avatar
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    A Reb Brown fan, eh?

    His scene where he's telling the kid about Disneyland as the kid is dying, seriously one of the funniest things ever filmed:



    JAKOGAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

    Also, if you like Space Mutiny, the guy who played MacPhearson was in a really cheesy action movie in the early 80s called "Kill and Kill Again". Definitely recommended for shitty movie buffs.

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