Apocalypse like riots in London, Birmingham and Leeds

[Danny]

#1 top rated video next to it "the riots: the whites have become black" fuuuck offf. seriously. in this day and age race has fuck all to do with being a yob. its how you are raised and were you live.

[MinionZombie]

Yeh, seems they've tracked down one of the scum! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14516112 And I hope they get the others too! That was one of the most shocking scenes from these last few days. Courts are hearing cases 24 hours a day in some places, we're heading towards 2000 arrests, so I hope that it continues apace to tackle these bastards. #1 top rated video next to it "the riots: the whites have become black" fuuuck offf. seriously. in this day and age race has fuck all to do with being a yob. its how you are raised and were you live. Indeed - a thug is a thug is a thug. People are people, I don't care about skin colour - it's merely melanin - and features are merely breeding patterns, it's not witchcraft. We've all got fingers and toes and a beating heart, but some in our society - the vast minority - refuse to live by the laws that the rest of us would never think of breaking in a million years. I see the high-ups at the police have been whinging and moaning about the PM bringing in this guy from America who has shown that he knows how to deal with gang culture ... I never knew the people in charge of the police were such delicate flowers - christ almighty, we've clearly got a serious problem that needs dealing with - by all means we SHOULD be bringing in outside experts to help us out! The cops on the ground did a fantastic job, but those leading them made some stupid-arse decisions ... all that 'stand by and watch' bullshit ... and these same police leaders claiming they didn't need the politicians to tell them what to do ... ... well if that was the case, how come there wasn't a coordinated, strong-armed crackdown on Night-friggin-TWO?! In short - we need some balls attached to those running the police, we need tactics and instruction from an outside source. The guys and gals on the actual streets did a stand-up job, but they were being lead by some idiots ... idiots who spend too much time getting involved in politics (which, really, they shouldn't be doing at all in their position) than understanding the situation on the ground. Furthermore, we DO need far less coppers stuck indoors filling out paperwork, and we DO need more of them trained in riot policing. Perhaps it could be trained in 'tiers' - like you have front line riot training, then second-line back-up, and then third-line reserves who take over to keep a place secure after it's been dealt with by the first two tiers.

[Neil]

[AcesandEights]

Wow, that made me angry to watch. Those streets needed to be swept badly.

[Danny]

stupid street trash..

[MinionZombie]

Sure enough - there are some people whining about "human rights" for those getting punished. http://uk.news.yahoo.com/pair-incite...185441906.html A couple of arseholes who attempted to incite rioting and looting get 4 years a piece (maximum sentence was 10 years) - so if anything they got off lightly, especially as they'll never end up doing 4 years ... but incitement to riot is a serious offence, regardless of whether they were successful in their attempt or not. I mean come on, they're not being hung, drawn and quartered! It's these sort of whiny whingers that got us into this mess in the first place - because of people that go waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too soft on criminals because of "human rights", we had police chiefs telling their men on the ground to "observe" rather than actually fix the unspooling problem around them which continued for nights. What about the human rights of everyone who lost their jobs because their employer's premises were burned down, what about the people who were burned out of their homes and lost their entire lives in flames, what about the people who were victims of robbery, what about the people who were beaten up by rioting and looting thugs, what about the people who died as a result of rioters? If you can't play nice in modern society, you deserve every punishment you receive.

[Neil]

Sure enough - there are some people whining about "human rights" for those getting punished. http://uk.news.yahoo.com/pair-incite...185441906.html A couple of arseholes who attempted to incite rioting and looting get 4 years a piece (maximum sentence was 10 years) - so if anything they got off lightly, especially as they'll never end up doing 4 years ... but incitement to riot is a serious offence, regardless of whether they were successful in their attempt or not. I mean come on, they're not being hung, drawn and quartered! It's these sort of whiny whingers that got us into this mess in the first place - because of people that go waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too soft on criminals because of "human rights", we had police chiefs telling their men on the ground to "observe" rather than actually fix the unspooling problem around them which continued for nights. What about the human rights of everyone who lost their jobs because their employer's premises were burned down, what about the people who were burned out of their homes and lost their entire lives in flames, what about the people who were victims of robbery, what about the people who were beaten up by rioting and looting thugs, what about the people who died as a result of rioters? If you can't play nice in modern society, you deserve every punishment you receive. If we consider such events can risk/cost lives, then we can consider how serious an issue it is! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14553330 Mr Brake told the BBC's Newsnight that some of those convicted had received sentences which would have been different if they had committed the same crime the day before the riots. ...and so it should be! They were part of a riot, so that needs to be taken into consideration! If they had committed the offence the day before, then they would not have been part of a riot!

[AcesandEights]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14553330 Wow, a lot of crazy comments under that article! I mean all the ones I looked at were whiney or making excuses for this sort of behavior: Icebloo 14 Hours ago Politicians are STILL pointing the finger of blame at everyone else but themselves. How predictable. This was not the work of gangs - this was disgruntled people who are sick of the cruel and horrible policies of this failing government. Shaibal 14 Hours ago Dave returned from holiday after the riots were over. He now talks to us about responsibility? Elected MPs cheated on expense and stole taxpayer's money. The majority of them are still in Parliament. White collar crime seems to be less severely punished. Rioters were opportunistic criminals and should be punished but so should the members of parliament who stole from us. lordBanners 14 Hours ago Whats next, a Foreign Conspiracy? When you have a system which feeds off it's most vulnerable like fleas off of dogs, they will start behaving accordingly.People NEED Hope, something UK's marginalised are devoid of. THAT is a Political problem first, Criminal problem second. With a bit of Hope Riots won't even be an option. But hey, finger-wagging does make Bigots feel good. RUBBISH. Here's what Cameron & Police won't admit to:- Stop-and-search under Sec 60 of the Criminal Justice & Public Order Act 1994 introduced for football hooligans.Allow police to search anyone in 'designated' areas without grounds for suspicion.97/98 saw 7,970 stop-and-search,increasing to149,955 in 08/09. Between 2005/09 No of Sec 60 search of blacks rose over 650% unrelated to Football. MrAdamo 16th August 2011 - 23:58 To follow on from my last comment: A government has the power to create the kind of society and the kind of culture it desires. These riots are a product of that government. First you demoralize, then you destabilize, then you create a crisis, and finally, you normalize society into the kind of system that best works for you; which for them is a total police state where they have absolute control. I mean, I get that we're all sick of irresponsible government run amok that only looks out for the interests of itself and it's key backers...but using such as an excuse for looting, property damage, theft and worse of all random assaults?

[Neil]

This was not the work of gangs - this was disgruntled people who are sick of the cruel and horrible policies of this failing government. Yep, breaking into a shoe shop and stealing pairs of trainers certainly makes a powerful political statement!

[MikePizzoff]

Yep, breaking into a shoe shop and stealing pairs of trainers certainly makes a powerful political statement! Nothing screams "liberation" like being able to run faster and jump higher!

[AcesandEights]

Nothing screams "liberation" like being able to run faster and jump higher! Reminds me of the Instant Karma Nike commercials from the 90s.

[SymphonicX]

Only a few points to make as I hate these bloody threads on this board. Firstly Mark Duggan didn't cause the riot. A 16 year old girl getting pummelled by the police during his vigil caused it. So yeah, the 16 year old was fucking out of order, she threw a rock at police...she got hospitalised for her troubles by 5 burly policemen who literally kicked the shit out of her. you can't really see the incident in this video, but you can hear the reactions: http://www.nowpublic.com/world/16-ye...riots-violence Moving along - this is a socio economical issue which I'm sure has long been said in this thread. Also, let's consider 4 years in prison for a stupidly placed joke facebook page, versus a rise in bonuses, holidays and incentives for the bankers which have cost us our entire economy. Let's look at the 2 years given to a teenage boy for looting a BOTTLE OF WATER..... Let's put this in perspective: £200 million pounds worth of damage to london as equalled thousands of years of prison time, versus a £500 trillion dollar FRAUD which has landed precisely NO ONE in jail. For the cost of sending just 2 young men to jail for 4 years for setting up a facebook group that didn't cause a riot, you could employ 4 youth workers for 4 years working with up to 200 of the most alienated young people per year (800 young people in 4 yrs) or pay for a full time youth advice service in 8 large secondary schools (benefitting around 10,000 young people) for a year or you could employ 24 young people on £15,000 for a year at a time when youth unemployment has reached over 20%. (can just feel the bleating arguments from the middle classes that these kids don't deserve that. If so, shame on you) And yeah, I agree - idiots on the streets have burnt down their own communities and the basic FAILURE of fundamental values in these kids and their parents have caused them to go on a blind rampage, causing nothing but agro to innocent and undeserving people. A massive shame - but if we'd raised generations of kids with an understanding of empathy, respect, etc - then this MARGINALISED fringe of society wouldn't be hitting out at themselves and innocent people - and it would have been an "arab spring" for those guys as well. But with them being so uneducated and blank, it just lead to them setting fire to their own houses. Well done. Let's not forget here, social unresst can ocurr within EVERY fringe of society. The main complaint is that the current fringe in question feel marginalised - well it may be true, but what group of people AREN'T marginalised?? White people feel marginalised, black people do, poor people, even in some ironic case so do the rich! So in essence this could have happened to ANY group of people. But let's not pretend this is a one sided thing with just one generation of dodgy kids to blame - this is the overboil of a cultural melting pot which has been simmering for decades, since the Toxteth riots of the 80s. It's in part down to a racist institutionalised police force, poverty near third world levels in certain parts of London, and a complete lack of instilled values caused by media invasion, consumerism and materialism. Just have a look at the news with a bunch of discussions on how to get the youth of today to "embrace consumerism" to see just how people are dealing with this problem. It's clear however that all political issues were dissolved after day 1 - and as soon as the riots kicked off elsewhere, then it was just about having a bit of fun and causing trouble and getting up to sickening criminal behaviour. It was very quickly that these idiots forgot about any political bullshit they were justifying this with. I won't pretend and say the riots were justified, but on day 1 in tottenham, it was a very different story to day 2 in Brixton. And that's all I have to rabble about! rabble rabble rabble! But this isn't one sided, the kids in question may be to blame but blame, insight and justification are VERY VERY different - and the political right wing needs to learn this before continually bleating out such shit as "I had a hard life but I didn't do blah blah blah". Its not that easy, deal with it. -- -------- Post added at 04:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:14 PM ---------- and finally to add: I grew up in fucking Walthamstow, East London. Ten mins down the road from me is Tottenham Hale Tube station. 15 mins bus ride is Hackney, Tower Hamlets etc. I grew up in the gutteral end of East London, so I know first hand what the socio-economic situation is in these areas and it is DIRE. Don't think for a second that Berkshire/Surrey/Oxford is the fucking same as Walthamstow, it's not. In Berkshire you can leave your house at night, in Walthamstow, you get attacked. It's a rough, rough area - rougher than Brixton. People there just don't give a fuck and haven't for a very very long time. It's a crying shame. But trust me I'm not sitting in my middle class flat with my middle class job and middle class family telling the poor what their lives are like - something which we see far too much of on the news.

[Tricky]

-- -------- Post added at 04:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:14 PM ---------- [/COLOR]and finally to add: I grew up in fucking Walthamstow, East London. Ten mins down the road from me is Tottenham Hale Tube station. 15 mins bus ride is Hackney, Tower Hamlets etc. I grew up in the gutteral end of East London, so I know first hand what the socio-economic situation is in these areas and it is DIRE. Don't think for a second that Berkshire/Surrey/Oxford is the fucking same as Walthamstow, it's not. In Berkshire you can leave your house at night, in Walthamstow, you get attacked. It's a rough, rough area - rougher than Brixton. People there just don't give a fuck and haven't for a very very long time. It's a crying shame. But trust me I'm not sitting in my middle class flat with my middle class job and middle class family telling the poor what their lives are like - something which we see far too much of on the news. With that in mind, is it the area that makes it dire, or is it the people that live there? You can give scum a mansion and millions of pounds (that fat shit as a prime example) and they are still scum regardless! Even living out here in the country we see it, I live in a quiet village, but on numerous occasions over the years the council has moved a problem family from Hull or one of the neighbouring towns into one of the decent houses here after they've been evicted from their previous home, and before long they've wrecked what was a decent property, their kids are running wild vandalising everything in sight and pissing off all the decent people here, local kids start getting bullied and eventually they have to be evicted again & moved on elsewhere. Strikes me these people like living in shitholes, because everywhere they go they try to turn it into one, even when given somewhere decent to live!

[SymphonicX]

With that in mind, is it the area that makes it dire, or is it the people that live there? You can give scum a mansion and millions of pounds (that fat shit as a prime example) and they are still scum regardless! Even living out here in the country we see it, I live in a quiet village, but on numerous occasions over the years the council has moved a problem family from Hull or one of the neighbouring towns into one of the decent houses here after they've been evicted from their previous home, and before long they've wrecked what was a decent property, their kids are running wild vandalising everything in sight and pissing off all the decent people here, local kids start getting bullied and eventually they have to be evicted again & moved on elsewhere. Strikes me these people like living in shitholes, because everywhere they go they try to turn it into one, even when given somewhere decent to live! Yeah they're not exactly dealing with a problem by evicting problem families to other neighbourhoods - it's the classic Romero-ism of ignoring the issue until it bites your neck... But to be completely honest you've got to look MUCH deeper than the actual people doing that...those scum families, what do they have in their heads? Nothing. Why is that? Why are they empty headed, materialistic, reactionary, violent people? Is it because their mums gave birth to them and taught them right from wrong, yet they still turn out to be scum?Did their parents instill that sense of "money doesn't make you happy"? Or even basic fundamental things like respect and empathy? I highly doubt it in most cases (of course there are exceptions). So if you take one family, from a socially deprived area, and mix them into a culture that places untold value on material goods, money, status, etc - then they are going to grow up and evolve into this world not with a concept of appreciation, but with a concept of "why can't *I* have those things".....Now normally, that might actually be OK - but then take that already volatile mix and put it in areas with bad education systems...its all getting a bit "chicken and egg"y but lack of good solid education, mixed with a society based on blame, reaction, material goods, and INDIVIDUALISM (the most prevalent word in this whole debate) and you have a volatile mix to say the least. You can also factor in other things, such as early pregnancies, a welfare state happy to hand out more money than the average wage, and finally - the economic situation at hand whereby rich people seem protected whilst the average joe gets ALL the cuts....makes you wonder why this hasn't happened earlier. (and makes you wonder why idiots riot against a system set up to hand out money to most of them - again, lack of education) I think the biggest fallacy in all of this is that this is somehow unexpected or shocking. So in answer to your question no, I don't think those scum families WANT to be like that (and having come from one of those scum families...) I can firmly and confidently say its just that they don't know any better. They've grown up in a world that's taught to deal with their problems by ways of anger, frustration, etc...they're basically de-evolved animals. Made idiots by the world around them. Collectivism is dead - that's the fuckin' issue here!

[Tricky]

Thing is you say you came from one of those families, but you come across as a decent guy with morals and your head screwed on the right way (we disagree politically but that doesnt change the person you are) so what made you into a decent guy? and why can't these others follow your lead and pull themselves out of the slums with a desire to better themselves and be respected for actually being decent people rather than trying to get respect by putting fear into others and acquiring everything they want through dubious means? I'd love to own huge TV's and stereos, live in a plush house in a nice area, drive an awesome car, be a designer label clothes horse and have several holidays a year, but I'm stuck in a rut in a job that pays a below average wage which seems to earn me less than those who don't work get handed, yet I don't feel that I'm entitled to all the trappings that the TV adverts and music videos tell me I should have, I feel that I should earn them, and I'm trying to claw my way to better things by gaining experience in my job, taking extra qualifications outside of work, and hopefully at some point landing a decent job that pays me more than I get now. I've never claimed benefits, I've shovelled pig shit, gutted chickens, spent all day in fields chopping lettuces, and generally been a low down dogsbody to earn my money in the past. My job now isnt brilliant, but its a technical admin job for one of the biggest haulage companies in the world, I worked bloody hard to get there, and I'll work even harder to get out and further up! It seems to me though these people don't want to follow the example of people like me and earn their way, they just want everything without having to work for it, and they're angry because life actually isnt like that and they think it should be. All this bollocks some of them spout about immigrants getting all the jobs pisses me off too, when I was doing the chicken gutting and lettuce chopping, I was mostly working with immigrant workers, but they were there because they were willing to work bloody hard and didnt think they were too good for the job (and despite being on minimum wage, it made most of them very rich when they went back home at the end of the season), whereas a lot of these chavs say "I arent doing fucking shit jobs like that" even though they aren't qualified to do anything else!