TWD 2x11 "Judge, Jury, Executioner" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[shootemindehead]

Good ep all round. Sorry to see Dale go, as he was one of my faves. Although he was wrong, wrong, wrong, about killing the guy in the barn. He's dangerous and everything about him suggests danger. To be honest, I'd have popped him when he was still on the fence and in any case, there was no way anyone would have got his leg off of that spike. Not the way it was shaped. Either way, it seems that this episode and the characters motivations were just specifically written to get Dale out of the show (as obviously it was either Carol or Dale who wanted out after Darabont left, they're both good friends of his), so to me it appeared a little forced. The teleporting zombie wasn't handled well, I agree with Neil and it tore into Dale's with with silly ease. He really should have tore a chunk out of his neck or something.

[krisvds]

Good ep all round. Sorry to see Dale go, as he was one of my faves. Although he was wrong, wrong, wrong, about killing the guy in the barn. He's dangerous and everything about him suggests danger. To be honest, I'd have popped him when he was still on the fence and in any case, there was no way anyone would have got his leg off of that spike. Not the way it was shaped. Either way, it seems that this episode and the characters motivations were just specifically written to get Dale out of the show (as obviously it was either Carol or Dale who wanted out after Darabont left, they're both good friends of his), so to me it appeared a little forced. The teleporting zombie wasn't handled well, I agree with Neil and it tore into Dale's with with silly ease. He really should have tore a chunk out of his neck or something. Well, you're probably right about him being dangerous. that's because you and i and everyone posting here have years of genre cinema knowledge. Those people in TWD haven't even seen NOTLD! Seriously; is the fact that someone 'suggests' danger enough to execute him? The only dangerous thing the kid has done is to shoot at our group after they had just killed two of the guys he was running with. Hardly surprising. But yeah, given the nature of this show and its source material little Randall will probably turn out to be a threat. Little doubt about it. For the people on the farm there is just no way of knowing that. And killing someone based on a hunch is just plain wrong. Evil even.

[Neil]

The teleporting zombie wasn't handled well, I agree with Neil and it tore into Dale's with with silly ease. He really should have tore a chunk out of his neck or something. Sloppy writing/directing that bit TBH - Shame! Sort of felt a bit like, and as ill-thoughtout as, the end of the webisodes where the mother having been bitten just lets herself needlessly be attacked for no reason...

[krisvds]

Dale being ripped apart was kinda silly, I have to agree. The gut tearing seemed like a nod to classic Romero feeding scenes but wasn't handled all that well. Dale's look in his eyes during those final moments and the overall acting there was top notch though

[sandrock74]

Exactly. You can't exactly blame the kid for lying either; he was tortured and now almost executed. Dale's question still unanswered; can you kill someone for a crime they might not even commit? Based on what? Fear.

[Eyebiter]

When the kid was digging around with the motorcycle saddle bags, thought he was going to find Merle's severed hand instead of the handgun.

[shootemindehead]

Well, you're probably right about him being dangerous. that's because you and i and everyone posting here have years of genre cinema knowledge. Those people in TWD haven't even seen NOTLD! Seriously; is the fact that someone 'suggests' danger enough to execute him? The only dangerous thing the kid has done is to shoot at our group after they had just killed two of the guys he was running with. Hardly surprising. But yeah, given the nature of this show and its source material little Randall will probably turn out to be a threat. Little doubt about it. For the people on the farm there is just no way of knowing that. And killing someone based on a hunch is just plain wrong. Evil even. Normally, no. But, in this case I'd say yes. Especially when there is a base to protect and the danger he (and his group) poses is one of rape and death and that's enough to justify his execution. If one was on the move constantly, I wouldn't be that bothered with letting him go. However, it's known he's from a dodgy group, that pulled guns on Rick and Co and who were involved in some brutality with teenage girls. Plus, throw in the fact that he was happily firing off shots at Rick and Co before he fell off the roof. I wouldn't be inclined to think he was just some "poor kid" etc and I'd have no reason to believe that he wouldn't share the same mindset as the other people he's been running with. But, then again, by this stage, I'd have killed Merle, Shane and Ed. Also, my suspicions that T-Dog was nothing more than an clichéd tick box "character" has certainly been born out in this series. An utterly useless character, that I'd almost reckon is still in the show because the producers are afraid of having the racist card thrown at him if he was absent.

[Thorn]

But consider this. He was probably alone when discovered by 'his group'. Indeed they may have even saved him. Given this is it surprising that he'd at least stay with them if only to increase his chances of survival. Yes he fired on 'our group', but in reality all he knew was 'our group' was shooting at (& had killed) some of 'his group'... Not really quite so black and white, and makes killing someone all the more questionable? That is a valid point, and I can not argue it if his story is to be taken at face value.

[AcesandEights]

I tell you one that would make it easier for me to lazy-boy quarterback the group's decisions: if they had some plans. Not just short term A to B plans that they are forced to throw together in reaction to an immediate need, but real plans with contingencies etc. Are they really planning to settle in at the farmhouse, or not? Is it feasible to do so long term, or is it just "for now"? I'd really like a little more insight into what the characters are thinking in this respect, especially now that Hershel's stance on so many matters have changed and he seems more amenable to the group.

[krisvds]

Also, my suspicions that T-Dog was nothing more than an clichéd tick box "character" has certainly been born out in this series. An utterly useless character, that I'd almost reckon is still in the show because the producers are afraid of having the racist card thrown at him if he was absent. I'm afraid you're right. the poor guy is just there. Even if he'd get eaten the viewer would just shrug. Still; he never should have been in the show in the first place. What an awfull character.

[Legion2213]

This poor sap wouldn't last 5 seconds with "our group" would he? He'd be dragged out onto a field and thrown to his knees and executed before he could say "I went to school with Minion Zombie" or whatever -- -------- Post added at 07:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:30 PM ---------- I'm afraid you're right. the poor guy is just there. Even if he'd get eaten the viewer would just shrug. Still; he never should have been in the show in the first place. What an awfull character. They are slowly developing Glen, no reason they couldn't have invested a bit of time in "Token Dog" as well. Current status quo is shitty for the actor, and lays the show wide open for the race industry to make noises.

[Wyldwraith]

Maybe I'm just abnormal, It seems so patently, unavoidably obvious to me that the One True Way to deal with possible lethal threats to one's self and one's friends/loved ones is with Lethal Force. Kill a young man for a crime he might never commit? No. I'd kill him for the crime he might very well commit. Yes, finding yourself in a situation where society is no longer around to provide underpaid garbage-men/women of human waste, or rather waste-humans (police officers) would be unpleasant and distasteful. Sooner or later, almost every single living person remaining after a civilization-destroying event will find themselves needing to kill someone for their protection and/or the protection of family/friends/allies whose guilt/identity as a deadly threat cannot be 100% determined. Yet stop and consider this: That's been the norm for 99% of the time humanity has been around. Even once societies did begin to practice incarceration as punishment and crime-deterrent, the conditions in their prisons amounted to slow death sentences 10x worse than simply being executed in most cases. Everyone knew that, and yet no substantive effort was made until the late 19th/early 20th century to begin elevating prison conditions above dungeon-squalor. So continue that logic to its logical conclusion. The group should keep Randall chained up in a barn for the rest of his natural life? And this is better than a quick bullet? How?

[bassman]

I enjoy reading all posts on this forum, but damn.....I would definitely NOT like to be left alone with some of you....

[sandrock74]

I enjoy reading all posts on this forum, but damn.....I would definitely NOT like to be left alone with some of you.... Kind of what I was thinking! lol

[krisvds]

Maybe I'm just abnormal, It seems so patently, unavoidably obvious to me that the One True Way to deal with possible lethal threats to one's self and one's friends/loved ones is with Lethal Force. Kill a young man for a crime he might never commit? No. I'd kill him for the crime he might very well commit. You would kill someone for a crime they might very well commit huh? Lethal force the only patently obvious way to deal with possible threats? wow. I'm not even going to argue against that.