TWD 4x01 "30 Days Without an Accident" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[sandrock74]

About the zombies being fed at the fences thing: my money is on one of the kids that Carl admonished for naming said zombies. The dumb kid (or kids) probably thinks of the zombies as pets or something. Again, this is just speculation on my part from stuff we've seen in commercials and such.

[Neil]

There's a sick pig in the pen and Hershel is a veterinarian. Maybe... just maybe... he might want to check out the pig in a y'know, professional capacity TWD writers?? LOL! Nice!

[MinionZombie]

Oh! Well then, we're in f***ing lame-arse-stupid-contact-lenses-for-no-reason-other-than-to-show-he's-a-zombie territory then? Episode 2 will start with his raptor roars then Erm - ALL actors who play walkers have contact lenses - remember when Amy reanimated in season one? You could argue they overdid it a tad with Patrick, but we also don't know the full thing with this new threat - and if it is linked with the walkers that have bleeding eyes, then it'd make sense that the eyes would show considerable damage early on. Hmmm ... Wyld's theory about possibly being to do with some sort of chemical weapon is interesting. Just when you've got enough to deal with, you've now got walkers that are doubly dangerous from an infection standpoint. ^Exactly what Mr. Clean says, he just illustrated in a better fashion than I could ever hope to. Indeed! Mr Clean found the nail and hit it right on the head with a sledgehammer - case closed, I'd say. I think it's a very severe case of pink eye, but that's just me.... Piiiink eyyyyyye! Where's that Worcestershire Sauce? I think the kid getting sick has to do with the pigs. Some kind of mutated swine flu that kills and then of course he reanimates. I dont think its any harder then that. They mention in the trailers and such that they have do deal with a threat from the inside and that imo is disease. All the feeding at the fence,etc is prob just to trick us into thinking it is more. I think it's gonna be two things - this infection problem, but I'm also thinking from some lines of dialogue in the trailer, that there's going to be a bad person on the inside who's messed up in the head and has finally snapped ... ... for now at least, going on episode titles, I think they'll be focusing on this new biological threat, but I am thinking we might see a problem arise with a bad person on the inside. There's a sick pig in the pen and Hershel is a veterinarian. Maybe... just maybe... he might want to check out the pig in a y'know, professional capacity TWD writers?? True ... although I'm assuming that Hershel looked at it before the events of 4x01 and deemed there was nothing they could do but wait ... although they should have written a little bit in, just a few words, to suggest that. Or maybe Hershel doesn't give a shit about bacon these days? MADNESS!

[Neil]

Erm - ALL actors who play walkers have contact lenses - remember when Amy reanimated in season one? You could argue they overdid it a tad with Patrick, but we also don't know the full thing with this new threat - and if it is linked with the walkers that have bleeding eyes, then it'd make sense that the eyes would show considerable damage early on. Sorry, my flippant remark was due to the suggestion he just slipped over and banged his head and died. In which case he would be falling in line with daft stuff (akin to DOTD04), the moment you die, you get crazy contact eyes, and crazy dino lungs! If there is indeed some crazy bleeding eye death zombie infection $hit going on, and that's what he has, then I'll permit crazy contacts - - - Updated - - - Or maybe Hershel doesn't give a shit about bacon these days? You'll make LouCipherr cry! Careful!

[Publius]

The only way to see walkers as monsters instead of humans, and then continuously plunge objects through their eyes and heads is to disassociate yourself from your emotions. Because the experience of killing a walker is no different than killing a human. The only thing that sets it apart is that you'd have to close off your emotional state to be able to see them as less than human. But then you go in the prison and it's all lovey dovey, snuggles and kisses and unicorns. When you disassociate from your emotions it effects every aspect of your life. It's not a selective process. It's not like outside while killing walkers you're cut off and unemotional like a psychopath, but when you go back into the prison you're now a mentally healthy person. That's not how it works. I disagree. History shows that the human mind can engage in a heck of a lot of selectivity. You can be a Crusader and turn from spitting Saracen infants on your lance during a brutal siege to writing courtly love poetry about a fair lady back home. You can be a slave trader who stacks Africans like cordwood in the hull of his ship but is capable of being perfectly lovey-dovey when he returns to his wife in England. You can be a concentration camp guard in Poland and turn from gassing a bunch of Untermenschen to writing a tender letter to your wife back home in Germany. If humans are capable of those kinds of disassociations, it'd be even easier to turn off your emotions when it comes to zombies while being loving and caring towards a living "significant other." That doesn't necessarily mean that they're mentally healthy overall, just that they are able to compartmentalize their emotions.

[bassman]

There's a sick pig in the pen and Hershel is a veterinarian. Maybe... just maybe... he might want to check out the pig in a y'know, professional capacity TWD writers?? While I laughed at this, there are a few things that could have happened.... For one, what is he going to do? Spend his time dissecting a pig that is of basically no interest to the large group? If he did, how much could he really find out? Sure, ruined organs and such, but he doesn't have the proper equipment to get down to the real cause of it all. For two, maybe I missed it, but does Hershel even know about the pig? For three, Rick probably doesn't see it as a big deal because it happens. Being a "farm child" of the southern US, I can tell you that sometimes livestock just keels over. You just discard the remains and move on.

[krisvds]

In order to bring logic to this mystery....I believe we must turn to board games for the answer. Fantastic post mr. C. But, Thin Ice logistics or no, the very fact that the zombies didn't start pouring through the roof untill the very moment our heroes are screwing it up downstairs was all kinds of convenient. To the point of being silly. Still: great action scene, good suspense, great effects. Don't mind me some comic book sillyness. What has got me more worried is the possible inclusion of tons of former Woodbury citizens in the main storyline, thus opening the series up for total 'soapification.'

[bassman]

Fantastic post mr. C. But, Thin Ice logistics or no, the very fact that the zombies didn't start pouring through the roof untill the very moment our heroes are screwing it up downstairs was all kinds of convenient. To the point of being silly. Still: great action scene, good suspense, great effects. Don't mind me some comic book silliness. C'mon! I'm not one to defend the show's weak spots(there are many), but THIS is silly. Perhaps they could have walked into the store and said "oh....these zombies fell through the roof before we got here". Or maybe as they're leaving they see them coming down from the outside of the store windows??? It's a show! It's entertainment! Turn off your over-critical brains and enjoy it. Don't get me wrong, I understand your complaints, but there comes a time to just watch and enjoy. Certain aspects of the show will always seem "off" and it's always fun to discuss them, but the timing of the walkers falling through the roof???

[krisvds]

It's a show! It's entertainment! Turn off your over-critical brains and enjoy it. Fantastic post mr. C. Still: great action scene, good suspense, great effects. Don't mind me some comic book sillyness. Uhm, Okay?

[MinionZombie]

I disagree. History shows that the human mind can engage in a heck of a lot of selectivity. You can be a Crusader and turn from spitting Saracen infants on your lance during a brutal siege to writing courtly love poetry about a fair lady back home. You can be a slave trader who stacks Africans like cordwood in the hull of his ship but is capable of being perfectly lovey-dovey when he returns to his wife in England. You can be a concentration camp guard in Poland and turn from gassing a bunch of Untermenschen to writing a tender letter to your wife back home in Germany. If humans are capable of those kinds of disassociations, it'd be even easier to turn off your emotions when it comes to zombies while being loving and caring towards a living "significant other." That doesn't necessarily mean that they're mentally healthy overall, just that they are able to compartmentalize their emotions. Well said Publius - I'm with you on this. Plus, it'd be daft to have everyone feeling exactly the same and just moping around like misery guts for sixteen episodes. You've got to have different people behaving differently at different times - it's more realistic, and it's more interesting. There is no one-size-fits-all reaction to trauma. They've also got to maintain some of what they had before, and some of who they were before, otherwise what's the point in fighting? Meanwhile, others might abandon the old world so they can - with no law enforcement left - indulge every sick whim they desire ... and then others like The Governor can't/don't/won't fight hard enough to maintain old world sanity and thus allow themselves to stumble down a very slippery slope indeed until they're hideous reflections of their former selves. Also, as a viewer, I don't want to watch people being miserable non-stop. Even in extremely tough times people find moments to smile or laugh or indulge themselves or find solace in other people.

[babomb]

I disagree. History shows that the human mind can engage in a heck of a lot of selectivity. You can be a Crusader and turn from spitting Saracen infants on your lance during a brutal siege to writing courtly love poetry about a fair lady back home. You can be a slave trader who stacks Africans like cordwood in the hull of his ship but is capable of being perfectly lovey-dovey when he returns to his wife in England. You can be a concentration camp guard in Poland and turn from gassing a bunch of Untermenschen to writing a tender letter to your wife back home in Germany. If humans are capable of those kinds of disassociations, it'd be even easier to turn off your emotions when it comes to zombies while being loving and caring towards a living "significant other." That doesn't necessarily mean that they're mentally healthy overall, just that they are able to compartmentalize their emotions. That's a different dynamic entirely. For one, the people you talk about are willing participants in these acts. If you can spit an infant on your lance during a brutal siege, you are absolutely a psychopath to begin with and you are completely devoid of emotion. If you write love poetry afterward, you have a completely self serving motivation for doing it. Those men were the ones doing the brutalizing. Whether it's a crusader, a slave trader, or a nazi, these men gravitated toward these roles because they had the mindset to perform such brutal acts. The group in the show are unwillingly and reluctantly forced to do these things. Prior to the situation they weren't of the mindstate required to perform such acts willingly. 2) Back in those days women weren't "significant others", they were property. Relationships didn't consist of 2 people on equal footing. The man was the boss and the woman did what was expected of her, knowing full well that one wrong word or act could mean being brutalized. Things were entirely different back then as compared to today. The group in the prison isn't made up of brutal warrior types that have performed such evil acts. They're children, housewives, cops, pizza delivery guys, farmers. All from the comforts of the modern world where things like that have never happened to them, they've never been witness to these acts, never been exposed to concentration camps or brutal sieges where infants are spit on lances. And worse, thy've learned to condemn such brutal acts and put them safely in the realm of history. 3) It's not their infants on the lance. They and their families aren't the slaves being stacked like cordwood or gassed in concentration camps. There's a huge difference between being a brutal murderer, and being the family member of one of the victims forced to watch your loved ones murdered. Finally, I'm not saying that those who suffer from PTSD are totally incapable of feeling love. I'm saying that they're reluctant to engage in and express those types of emotions so openly due to repeated traumatic experiences. It's not only about killing walkers at the fence, it's also about the experiences beforehand that lead them to the fence where they are forced to kill walkers to ensure their own survival.

[kidgloves]

I dunno. Maybe Im weird but I would think seeking comfort in others after having to commit the acts the survivors have had to would be most human beings natural reaction. PTSD affects people differently. Some crumble under it and aren't willing, or able, to recover. Some recover, learn from it and become stronger. Some flip because its a trigger. The list goes on. It depends on the individual person and their development up until the PTSD occurs. To say the survivors aren't behaving how they should is beyond ridiculous. Its not that simple

[babomb]

Post-traumatic stress disorder symptoms are generally grouped into three types: intrusive memories, avoidance and numbing, and increased anxiety or emotional arousal (hyperarousal). Symptoms of intrusive memories may include: Flashbacks, or reliving the traumatic event for minutes or even days at a time Upsetting dreams about the traumatic event Symptoms of avoidance and emotional numbing may include: Trying to avoid thinking or talking about the traumatic event Feeling emotionally numb Avoiding activities you once enjoyed Hopelessness about the future Memory problems Trouble concentrating Difficulty maintaining close relationships Symptoms of anxiety and increased emotional arousal may include: Irritability or anger Overwhelming guilt or shame Self-destructive behavior, such as drinking too much Trouble sleeping Being easily startled or frightened Hearing or seeing things that aren't there So the only person in the entire group that has so far displayed behavior consistent with PTSD is Rick. Why not Carl? he had to kill his mother after all. Why not Maggie? She was beaten and nearly raped by a psychopath, had family members turn to walkers and then killed in front of her. Delivered a baby that resulted in the death of the mother. So it makes perfect sense that of all the members of the group, knowing what they've been through, some of them children and teenagers, that only Rick suffers from PTSD? What makes his trauma so much worse? he lost his wife. So did Herschel, Carol lost her daughter, Daryl lost his brother, Carl lost his mom. Beth lost her mom. And Beth was contemplating suicide. I've seen first hand how devastating it is to a mother to lose a child. And the way Carol was portrayed to be after Sophia died, that's laughable. These problems don't just disappear. All the writers would have to do is look at the personality traits and experiences of the characters, use an easily found mental health diagnosis chart against each character and they'd have a road map to draw from in order to further develop the characters, which would define the types of drama that each character would create and experience. But instead, they choose a 1 dimensional hollywood philosophy? If these characters were written in even a halfway realistic way the entire group would be so much more fucked up than they're portraying them now. I guess I'm the weird one for expecting some realism and depth in the characters of the show!?

[Ragnarr]

While I laughed at this, there are a few things that could have happened.... For one, what is he going to do? Spend his time dissecting a pig that is of basically no interest to the large group? If he did, how much could he really find out? Sure, ruined organs and such, but he doesn't have the proper equipment to get down to the real cause of it all. For two, maybe I missed it, but does Hershel even know about the pig? For three, Rick probably doesn't see it as a big deal because it happens. Being a "farm child" of the southern US, I can tell you that sometimes livestock just keels over. You just discard the remains and move on. All good points m8. I would have had that brief conversation scene between Rick and Hershel (Hershel explaining replanting etc.) take place at the pig pen with Hershel making some (any) comment regarding the sluggish pig. He'd at least be able to determine if it was running a fever or had some sort of intestinal disorder; very generalized diagnosis if he did'nt pact a microscope after about 8 months of the others doing supply runs into nearby towns ("Bring me back some dang medical supplies you young whipper snappers"). As to him maybe not being aware of the sick pig, I guess it's possible but in any small community I've lived in, even a trivial matter spreads through word of mouth rather quickly. Meh, maybe I'm looking too deep into it. It's only important that the pig died of "something" which helps to advance the plot. Next episode is going to be awesome I think.

[babomb]

But wouldn't you want to at least examine the pig to make sure it isn't something that could effect the rest of the livestock? Then maybe examine the other pigs to see if they're showing signs of anything to try and prevent them all from keeling over?