TWD 3x16 "Welcome to the Tombs" episode discussion...**SPOILERS WITHIN**

[facestabber]

I have decided to subscribe to a state of mind that remembers 1985 until TWD began. We got 04 Dawn which I was entertained with for a couple years but kind of cringe now...lets face it, it kick started the zombie genre. Finally Romero was given a budget to capitalize on the zombie renewal. Who knew he would produce the uber crap fest that Land was. I have re-watched season three and IMO as a whole it was great story. Mistakes and lazy stuff at times, sure but I love this show.

[Ragnarr]

Not having read the comic, here's how I would've concluded season 3. -Team Woodbury gets their collective asses kicked at the prison battle with just a few escaping including the Governor. Hershel dies herocially in the fight. A few others are wounded. -Andrea is able to free herself just in time and in her weakened state struggles with zombie Milton, but manages to get out of the room. -Rick, Daryl and Machonne chase the Gov and his two sidekicks all the way back to Woodbury. Daryl kills Martinez by a well placed knife throw, Machonne slays silent black henchman #4328 during the fight, and the now wounded Gov limps back into Woodbury. He goes to check on Andrea's now munched-on corpse, but just as he is about to open the door to the torture room, Andrea waylays him from behind just as zombie Milton bursts out of the torture room. The now dazed Gov is ironically munched by the very walker he created (hom nom nom), and Rick & co. arrive to find that Andrea was bitten during her scuffle with Milton.

[Neil]

Not having read the comic, here's how I would've concluded season 3. -Team Woodbury gets their collective asses kicked at the prison battle with just a few escaping including the Governor. Hershel dies herocially in the fight. A few others are wounded. -Andrea is able to free herself just in time and in her weakened state struggles with zombie Milton, but manages to get out of the room. -Rick, Daryl and Machonne chase the Gov and his two sidekicks all the way back to Woodbury. Daryl kills Martinez by a well placed knife throw, Machonne slays silent black henchman #4328 during the fight, and the now wounded Gov limps back into Woodbury. He goes to check on Andrea's now munched-on corpse, but just as he is about to open the door to the torture room, Andrea waylays him from behind just as zombie Milton bursts out of the torture room. The now dazed Gov is ironically munched by the very walker he created (hom nom nom), and Rick & co. arrive to find that Andrea was bitten during her scuffle with Milton. Not so sure about all of the other stuff, but I really like the idea of zombie Milton killing Gov!

[Ragnarr]

My reasoning for the imaginary alternate ending of season 3 is Daryl killing MArtinez with the knife throw goes back to the episode when the Gov and Rick were having that meeting. Martinez and Daryl had that pissing match while waiting outside, and Daryl threw his knife to take out a walker. Imagine the look on Martinez' face just as he's killed by Daryl using the same technique. The scenes were Andrea is taking her sweet time freeing herself in the torture room makes no sense at all. If the threat of Milton becoming a zombie wasn't motivation enough for her to hurry, she also couldn't be sure when the Governor would come back into the room. Her compassionate delays make no sense at all. But if she could have freed herself just as Milton turned, she could have been bitten during the struggle considering her weakened physical state yet manage to leave the room to lie in wait for the Gov. What can I say, I like irony lol.

[MinionZombie]

You know what would be good? If in the writer's room they had someone hired to just read through the scripts and go "but what about...?" or "when did this happen...?" or "just tweak this a smidge because I know the audience will whinge about this..." - to point out little teeny things that are really hard to spot by the writers themselves as they so close to their scripts, and they're also working - in-depth - on the entire arc of a season, so you've got so much going on it's easy to overlook small details, as well as not be able to see each script from the perspective of someone coming to it totally fresh and seeing it all as-is in a complete state... ...and I offer my services!

[Ragnarr]

I'd kill to have you on TWD's writing staff brother! Hopefully they also read HPotD and have the insight to spot talent when the see it. Meh I know. Real life never seems to work that way. It's not what but who you know that get's doors open. At least maybe their writers will cherry pick our ideas once in awhile and throw us a cudos somewhere, right?

[MinionZombie]

I'd kill to have you on TWD's writing staff brother! Hopefully they also read HPotD and have the insight to spot talent when the see it. Meh I know. Real life never seems to work that way. It's not what but who you know that get's doors open. At least maybe their writers will cherry pick our ideas once in awhile and throw us a cudos somewhere, right? haha, yeah, that would be quite a fantasy moment. Thanks for the kind words, too. As I've been delving deeper and deeper into the world of screenwriting myself ... (I'm currently refining my portfolio, so-to-speak, of scripts - I've also currently got a couple out there with production companies for consideration, a bunch of letters out approaching other companies, and I entered a competition just the other week - and then I've still got to approach representation to see if I can get an agent to back my corner and open some more doors once my portfolio is complete) ... I've been looking more and more at TWD from a writer's perspective, which has brought me a lot of joy and inspiration and "ooh, nice" entertainment along the way. It's fascinating to me to see/read/hear interviews with the writers, and key creative people, on the direction of the show - the whys and hows of putting TWD together - so yeah... *loses train of thought* I definitely think a 'fresh eyes test' would be a cool process for the scripts to go through to just pick up on certain things - I get some people to read my scripts and I ask them specific questions and generally talk to them about their take on the script and I identify things that could use a tweak, or a touch more explanation (e.g. something that's very clear in the movie/tv screen in my head that hasn't quite had enough words ascribed to it on the page to fully explain an element of said image/idea) - and while I'm sure the head writer helps with some of that, they too also have the entire show/season in the head at any one time - it'd be a nifty idea to hire someone to do as I've said (with a non-disclosure agreement etc, of course). Be the fresh pair of eyes that picks up on small areas for improvement - a proxy of sorts for the audience long before it actually airs.

[AcesandEights]

You know what would be good? If in the writer's room they had someone hired to just read through the scripts and go "but what about...?" or "when did this happen...?" or "just tweak this a smidge because I know the audience will whinge about this..." ...and I offer my services! I'd rather a quorum of Shootem, Krisvds, Babomb and Wyld--though in that case we might very well have another writer's guild strike on our hands soon after Script vetting....I can't even imagine the crap that probably goes on with AMC, but out of some sheer sense of perversity I'd love to know.

[krisvds]

I'd rather a quorum of Shootem, Krisvds, Babomb and Wyld--though in that case we might very well have another writer's guild strike on our hands soon after We aim to please. . the top brass over at AMC should seriously consider handing scriptwriting duties over at the good folk here at HOTD for at the very least one episode per season. We would probably be at each others throats for weeks, bickering and whatnot, after which we would hand in the best episode of the damn season.

[AcesandEights]

the top brass over at AMC should seriously consider handing scriptwriting duties over at the good folk here at HOTD for at the very least one episode per season. We would probably be at each others throats for weeks, bickering and whatnot, after which we would hand in the best episode of the damn season. Sounds fun to me, actually!

[babomb]

I'd rather a quorum of Shootem, Krisvds, Babomb and Wyld--though in that case we might very well have another writer's guild strike on our hands soon after Script vetting....I can't even imagine the crap that probably goes on with AMC, but out of some sheer sense of perversity I'd love to know. I wonder about what goes on behind the scenes at AMC all the time. Because you know it's only a matter of time until the execs get their hands so far into the soup that they poison it. Could be happening right now, probably is. I think that's the reason that the walker presence ijn the show isn't really what it should be. i realize that by season 3 the walkers would be getting slimmer in numbers. But IMO, they should've had some scenes with shitloads of walkers in seasons 1 & 2. There were some scenes where there were "decent" numbers, but you'd expect some scenes, in the city for example, where it looks like a concert of walkers is going on. It's not something that's that big of a deal, they still pulled it off well. But I remember hearing about AMC tossing around the idea of not showing walkers very often, and instead using sound effects to convey their presence. Which just means that they're trying to cut corners for the sake of profit. I'm a capitalist, so I have nothing against profits being made, just not at the expense of quality. It's just something that seems to ALWAYS happen in TV land, and something to watch out for. - - - Updated - - - We aim to please. . the top brass over at AMC should seriously consider handing scriptwriting duties over at the good folk here at HOTD for at the very least one episode per season. We would probably be at each others throats for weeks, bickering and whatnot, after which we would hand in the best episode of the damn season. That would be incredible!!

[Wyldwraith]

Having read all this, The points I STILL can't get over. 1) Glenn, with the assault rifle, and a crowd of Woodburyites in his sights. This guy has been HOWLING FOR BLOOD for numerous episodes now over what was done to him and his girl, and being overall sick of living in fear. Go on calling it a minor thing if you want, but I truly believe the writers misplayed Glenn's actions in that scene. They SHOULD have had him riddle 2-3 people as they came bursting out the door en masse, and then go "Oh fuck, what did I just do?...then duck down behind cover and blind-fire off some rounds to continue the rout. Glenn had RAGE inside him...and though he's a good man, the Governor struck a nerve of his (or any real man's) much deeper than Glenn being tortured. He made Glenn helpless to protect the woman he's in love with, while she was degraded...AND the Governor USED GLENN as the instrument of coercion to degrade Maggie. Glenn WOULD have shot some people...and then, having seen them fall...I could see the rage drain out as the implications of what he just did strike home hard and fast. 2) Sort of a sub-point of #1: Daryl's brother was killed and left a Walker by these people. Maggie was all but raped by the Governor. All THREE of the people who have, by FAR, suffered the most at Woodbury's hands, and ALL OF THEM decide to take the high road and A-Team shoot-to-not-hit-it? Whoever said it left the scene bordering on satire was dead on. These were the people with solid, entrenched, REAL reasons to extract their pint of blood and pound of flesh from the people invading their home with the intent on massacring them all. Having NONE OF THEM act on the negative emotions they were feeling when offered such a picture-perfect opportunity for retribution was absurdly unrealistic. Call it internet bravado if you choose...but believe me when I say that had a man done to either of the two women I've loved in my life what the Governor did to Maggie...using ME as the means to gain her compliance in her own sexual assault....and I survived to later on get even a .1% chance of a shot I could fire hitting and killing him....I would spray a crowd of people meaning to kill me and mine just for that .1% chance of hitting him. Show of hands men. Who's with me on this?

[facestabber]

Wylde I am with you regarding deadly force. When they entered the prison blowing up the towers and .50 rocking the prison walls, I would not be in the mood to chase them off. Had the Gov not slaughtered his own army, dimishing its power, what exactly did team prison do except teach the Woodbury force to change their tactics. And Woodbury attacks almost in single file, and bunched up which is a machine gunners dream. I would have lit em up when they were retreating and have some on the roof lobbing grenades down.

[Moon Knight]

Wyld, I usually don't agree with you BUT I have to be honest, you made a really great point this time around concerning deadly force. Imo Carl did the right thing giving the situation.

[shootemindehead]

They drive off into the sunset.....find the housing development with the guys from the bar, who remember being shot to hell........and both teams come back for revenge. Um...that would work. Send you CV into AMC. - - - Updated - - - You know what would be good? If in the writer's room they had someone hired to just read through the scripts and go "but what about...?" or "when did this happen...?" or "just tweak this a smidge because I know the audience will whinge about this..." - to point out little teeny things that are really hard to spot by the writers themselves as they so close to their scripts, and they're also working - in-depth - on the entire arc of a season, so you've got so much going on it's easy to overlook small details, as well as not be able to see each script from the perspective of someone coming to it totally fresh and seeing it all as-is in a complete state... ...and I offer my services! I would have imagined that that would've been part of the script editors job? But, yep I agree completely. I think that films and TV suffer way too much from the "wouldn't it be cool if..." syndrome, meaning that the most stupid and inane ideas are given air quite a lot of the time, when they should be called out as nonsense. The "zombie smell" thing is a personal pet hate of mine, from both the comic and the show, because anyone with a few brains would realise the problems that such an ability would raise in future scenarios, especially in tense "hiding from zombies" scenes, which were absolutely bound to happen. It's hard to believe that nobody stood up and said that it was a really shite idea. What the likes of 'The Walking Dead' needs is a "zombie bible" and a guy who is strict on its implementation. It seems to me though, that the series does have a fair amount of re-writing going on, the recent Andrea - Milton thing demonstrates that and even then, it left a bit to be desired. Perhaps time was running out and they had to go with what they got? I dunno. Producing a TV show is a lot harder than producing a film. There are no Stanley Kubrick style extensions to be enjoyed, that's for sure and editing can be a nightmare. In recent years, the "wouldn't it be cool if..." syndrome has especially manifested itself continuously in cinema due to the influx of CGI. Anything is possible, when anything shouldn't be possible. The most ridiculous physical impossibilities are cast aside, because real life restrictions aren't a barrier within a computer generated environment. The list of scenes that abandon physical logic in modern pictures are as long as your arm. - - - Updated - - - We aim to please. . the top brass over at AMC should seriously consider handing scriptwriting duties over at the good folk here at HOTD for at the very least one episode per season. We would probably be at each others throats for weeks, bickering and whatnot, after which we would hand in the best episode of the damn season. Yeh, I think we'd need a referee!