post-apocalyptic govt...

[Kaos]

Na, I've known Kaos for a long time. -stray- Must be 11 years now, stray. ditto here. the ronski is one of the main reasons i've been coming around this joint for so long. Aw shucks, guys.

[strayrider]

Must be 11 years now, stray. 11 years ... damn, that's nearly a quarter of my life. Looking back, I kinda miss those chats on Kyra's site. Yourself, myself, Ghoul, Greek, Snappy, occasionally Savini and Taso, Marty Schiff (sp?) once or twice, Terran, Arianna, and that one cat ... what was his name? Oh, yeah ... Skazz. A224 and Zombie. Sh*t, where has the time gone? I'm getting misty-eyed ... -stray-

[Ov3rlord]

In my opinion I think if it were possible then have everyone be trained in a bit of everything by someone who knows what they're talking about. By the end I think it would be productive to have everyone trained in security, agriculture, first aid and if possible some type of technical training to fix and handle radios or some type of communication. I know this is probably an impossible dream but that's jsut how I would want to see things. That way if someone wants to leave they have the training to survive on their own. They probably won't be as effective as the group working together but that's a part of their free will and denying them that is denying their humanity. You can't just say that it will be like this and it will work. That would mean you need every aspect of everything to work perfectly which it almost never does. To the side saying that holeing up and stashing supplies what would happen if there were an accident and all the supplies were destroyed and you weren't able to get to your supposed caches? Now you turn on your neighbors for whatever is left because there isn't enough to go around. To the nomads moving on and taking from those to ensure the well being of their own what if there is some kind of plague in your group and you are all to sick to go and gather supplies? Now you die because you weren't as well prepared because you weren't well off pre-apocalyptic event, I know where you're coming from I'm not saying I'm the worst off in the world but it hasn't always been easy and it sucks but it happens. Whatever happens happens one idea may work better than the other but it won't be perfect sometimes you need to look at others ideas and mix and match till it works. I'd like to think that beliefs like treat others the way you want to be treated would be able to prevail through anything because I believe that morals are what make us humans and to see them fall apart because something terrible happened is saddening.

[Wyldwraith]

Something I have a hard time with, Khardis: To paraphrase what you've said.."I would rather see the human race wiped out than see myself or my loved ones not survive" You then went on to detail the various means that in many cases prominently feature you using the cannibal corpses to slaughter your fellow man so you can then pick through their belongings for your own benefit. Question: If you TRULY believe that what is best for you and yours outweighs the worth of all 8 billion lives on Earth then why aren't you out killing people in the dark of night right now to steal their money/valuables in order to improve the lives of you and yours? Is the presence of effective law enforcement the only obstacle to your acting on these loudly professed beliefs? ::shakes head:: Please, PLEASE seek counseling sir.

[Khardis]

Something I have a hard time with, Khardis: To paraphrase what you've said.."I would rather see the human race wiped out than see myself or my loved ones not survive" You then went on to detail the various means that in many cases prominently feature you using the cannibal corpses to slaughter your fellow man so you can then pick through their belongings for your own benefit. Question: If you TRULY believe that what is best for you and yours outweighs the worth of all 8 billion lives on Earth then why aren't you out killing people in the dark of night right now to steal their money/valuables in order to improve the lives of you and yours? Is the presence of effective law enforcement the only obstacle to your acting on these loudly professed beliefs? ::shakes head:: Please, PLEASE seek counseling sir. If petty crime was more lucrative than dangerous i just might. Yes, and it's quite a good book. The only real comedy element in it is that it's about... zombies. The rest of the stuff is actually well researched. You should check it out. Already got it and World War Z, wasn't impressed by either. Its interesting, he thinks communities are the way to go whereas Romero seems to think its communities that ends up killing everyone and that being on your own is better.

[Ov3rlord]

Really being on your own is better is the message Romero is conveying, I haven't seen Diary of the Dead so I can't say for that but as far as I've seen most of the people that are living at the end of the movie were (get this) working together and not worrying only about themselves. NotLD= the main characters die but the guy who shot Ben was with the town posse, the remake Barbara comes back after working with the town, DotD Francine and Peter escape on the helicopter together, the remake most of the group makes it to the boat except for Michael when he was bitten helping Ana, DayotD the non-military group help each other to escape and make it to a deserted island, in the remake some of the protagonists help each other to escape, and LotD where would Riley have been without Charlie, which goes so far as to mention they helped each other more than a few times. Sure these aren't grand examples of community brotherhood but it does show people need each other whether most want to admit it or not. "The only thing that will redeem mankind is cooperation", Shaun Riley quoting Lord Bertrand Russell

[Mike70]

people are not going to survive on their own. that is a fantasy that a lot of pseudo-tough internet big mouths share. i seriously doubt that in the real world a lone person would last very long.

[bassman]

Really being on your own is better is the message Romero is conveying I would have to disagree. Romero isn't saying that we should be alone, but be together and cooperate. The zombies aren't the bad guys, we are because we can't isten to one another. Work together as the more intellegent group rather than fight and rally against one another. He's saying that being with others is the MOST important thing. We just have to make it work. "The only thing that will redeem mankind is cooperation", Shaun Riley quoting Lord Bertrand Russell I never knew Shaun had a last name.

[Khardis]

people are not going to survive on their own. that is a fantasy that a lot of pseudo-tough internet big mouths share. i seriously doubt that in the real world a lone person would last very long. You do realize that in a plague being segregated saves lives right? Thats why they quarantine and such. THe idea is to stop the spread from person to person, when you band together in communities you almost ensure always that some form of the plague will survive because like a fire in a dense forest is has many hosts to cling to, whereas a fire in a sparse field wont quite catch. All the silly crap about putting together your own governments etc is cute for a forum and all but in reality building a government i'snt easy, usually you will have to kill other people to enforce your government on them. Lets say I join your little militarized community and I refuse to work and share, then what are you going to do? Take my stuff? Kick me out? kill me? Now what if in that community theres say 100 people and 30 of them are on my side and we disagree with the way you want to run your little paradise? Well I reckon the same thing that happens in MOST romero movies would happen, we would all fight and weaken each other and then be over run by the dead. Now if I am on my own or with a small cluster of loved ones surviving away from the rest of the weaklings who need numbers to conceal their weakness, then that strife is less likely and we are all on the same page. Our odds of surviving are better. Especially when we start raiding your settlements lol. I would have to disagree. Romero isn't saying that we should be alone, but be together and cooperate. : Sarah: Maybe if we tried working together we could ease some of the tensions. We're all pulling in different directions. John: That's the trouble with the world, Sarah darlin'. People got different ideas concernin' what they want out of life.

[Bub666]

You do realize that in a plague being segregated saves lives right? Thats why they quarantine and such. THe idea is to stop the spread from person to person, when you band together in communities you almost ensure always that some form of the plague will survive because like a fire in a dense forest is has many hosts to cling to, whereas a fire in a sparse field wont quite catch. All the silly crap about putting together your own governments etc is cute for a forum and all but in reality building a government i'snt easy, usually you will have to kill other people to enforce your government on them. Lets say I join your little militarized community and I refuse to work and share, then what are you going to do? Take my stuff? Kick me out? kill me? Now what if in that community theres say 100 people and 30 of them are on my side and we disagree with the way you want to run your little paradise? Well I reckon the same thing that happens in MOST romero movies would happen, we would all fight and weaken each other and then be over run by the dead. Now if I am on my own or with a small cluster of loved ones surviving away from the rest of the weaklings who need numbers to conceal their weakness, then that strife is less likely and we are all on the same page. Our odds of surviving are better. Especially when we start raiding your settlements lol. Sarah: Maybe if we tried working together we could ease some of the tensions. We're all pulling in different directions. John: That's the trouble with the world, Sarah darlin'. People got different ideas concernin' what they want out of life. If you have enough supplies to last you,you can survive alone.

[Khardis]

If you have enough supplies to last you,you can survive alone. Of course, and the less people you have the longer the supplies last. And the cool part about myself I think is that I have really good survival skills, I shoot regularly not just hand guns and shotguns but assault rifles and bows. I am trained in carpentry and masonry, i've literally built entire houses foundations and all. And I have kept an awesome garden for years, its an Italian thing my Dad raised me to know how to grow my own food and to hunt my own food if need be. I also know a lot about survival in the woods, I spent many years getting lost in the forests learning which mushrooms are edible which roots are edible, hot to set traps for rabbits etc. I think I would have a really good shot at surviving alone or with a small group of friends and family.

[Bub666]

Of course, and the less people you have the longer the supplies last. And the cool part about myself I think is that I have really good survival skills, I shoot regularly not just hand guns and shotguns but assault rifles and bows. I am trained in carpentry and masonry, i've literally built entire houses foundations and all. And I have kept an awesome garden for years, its an Italian thing my Dad raised me to know how to grow my own food and to hunt my own food if need be. I also know a lot about survival in the woods, I spent many years getting lost in the forests learning which mushrooms are edible which roots are edible, hot to set traps for rabbits etc. I think I would have a really good shot at surviving alone or with a small group of friends and family. A person with your skills stands a great chance of surviving.

[SRP76]

people are not going to survive on their own. that is a fantasy that a lot of pseudo-tough internet big mouths share. i seriously doubt that in the real world a lone person would last very long. No way. It's the other way around. If you have other people with you, you have a greater chance of one of them making a mistake that gets you all killed. And the more people there are, the greater that chance. And that gets compounded by the false sense of security a group brings. For example, you don't feel the need to triple-barricade that door, "because Tim's guarding it". Next thing you know, a zombie's chewing on you, because Tim was incompetent and fell asleep on watch.

[Ov3rlord]

Which can happen but if you're caught in a zed apocalypse and you have training that would allow you to survive wouldn't it at least make sense to train other people in your group to have some rudimentary skill to ensure at least an extension of your survival. Also it never hurts to triple barricade the door any way.

[SRP76]

Also it never hurts to triple barricade the door any way. Which makes extra people useless, since you'll end up living like you were on your own anyway. But no matter how much you train people, no matter how much they say they won't screw up, you can NOT trust them. Unless you are physically controlling someone, there's never any telling what may happen. The only person you can ever be sure about is yourself. And in the end, you'll wind up tearing yourself apart going back and double-checking everything everyone else does. Having "teammates" will end up burning more of your energy than being alone would. Which brings us back to the start of this post. And that's not even taking into account all the other drawbacks associated with groups, like dwindling supplies, lack of options for hiding all these people, and the fact that groups tend to attract a LOT more zombies than one quiet individual.