TWD 2x07 "Pretty Much Dead Already" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[AcesandEights]

Oh, they better not kill Daryl, he is the fucking man! Brilliant character, I think I'd cry like a girl if they offed him. I think it's best if they run lean on the mercy and keep no sacred calves un-munched

[bassman]

I love the fact that everyone roots for Daryl now. I remember when he first appeared everyone was complaining about how he was a cliched character and was thrown in for the ADD audiences.

[AcesandEights]

I remember when he first appeared everyone was complaining about how he was a cliched character and was thrown in for the ADD audiences. To be fair, the character is still written as a tad too cool for school, for my taste. Cool character, but when he ragdolled that zombie without sh*tt*ng himself I figured he must have done some time at the zombie hunter academy (passed advanced hand to hand, but failed safety 101). It'd be more believable if he came across as a bit more damaged, though seeing his bro this season is a move in the right direction, perhaps

[kidgloves]

Im not that fussed about Daryl tbh. Killing him off would be a great statement. DO IT KIRKMAN DO IT. Give us TWD we all know and love.

[Cykotic]

since sophia was zombified and no character is safe, why not have maggie get bit, glenn grow a pair, hershel finally come to the realisation that his daughter is gonna die and come around to the group's way of thinking! Since shane is becoming like the comic version, why not finally let rick do what needs to be done.... or maybe lori? screw it, dale should cap him.

[Tricky]

Holy shit that was a powerful mid season cliff hanger there, really well done scene & at that point it clicked why its been fairly slow burning in this series up until that point. What happened there is going to change every single character in that scene in one way or another for good...

[Thorn]

To be fair, the character is still written as a tad too cool for school, for my taste. Cool character, but when he ragdolled that zombie without sh*tt*ng himself I figured he must have done some time at the zombie hunter academy (passed advanced hand to hand, but failed safety 101). It'd be more believable if he came across as a bit more damaged, though seeing his bro this season is a move in the right direction, perhaps I agree with this he was written in as a bad ass character people could identify with, or the anti hero type. Not like Shane who is being vilified by most and in my opinion rightfully so in many cases. Darryl is more the bad boy turns hero but does it in his own bad ass way. The hillbilly Punisher, or Gambit without the playing cards..

[Trin]

I have been really so-so with this season. They've made so many of the characters unlikeable. The plotlines are just dragging on. The situations are not terribly interesting or believable. The choices they make are just ... bleck. The drama is way over-dramatized. However, this last episode was good. The Sophia barn thing ... I was totally not expecting that. It caught me completely off guard. And I loved it. It was a great way to explain why they hadn't found her, and to kill the hope. I also enjoyed the Shane explosion, although they've gone way too far making Shane the bad guy. I repeat what I said in season 1... they are just plain jerking us around with what they show of Shane. How we see Shane is 100% contrived based on how they want us to feel about him from scene to scene, episode to episode. To the prevailing debate... I don't care what Kirkman says... it is implausible to think that Herschel (or others) did not know Sophia was in the barn. I don't see Otis putting her in there without help and without telling Herschel. I don't see Otis putting her in there without telling at least someone (especially the girl feeding them). And I don't think the girl feeding them wouldn't have noticed her. I *do* see Herschel hiding the fact that she was in there from the group. He proved he would withhold information to protect his skewed view of the world. He proved he held little value for the lives of outsiders. Forgetting all that... assuming Herschel genuinely did not know ... he (or any of his family) still should've considered the possibility that Sophia was in the barn and gone to check it out. The group was searching the area for a week looking for someone who disappeared within walking distance of their farm ... it never occurred to any of them she might be one of them that they brought in? I've hated Herschel from about the second Carl started to improve. Now I think Herschel deserves to die. Darryl is my favorite character by far. I wish he hadn't gone all ear-wearing nutso seeing his brother. He was the only one not cracking. I hope that's not foreshadowing. If Darryl goes the Shane route, I won't have much incentive to watch.

[Wyldwraith]

@Trin: Your position was very elegant in its articulation, and I agree with all the points you made about knowledge of "Zophia" in the barn, and the how of how she got there. Our thinking has pretty well dovetailed on this. Herschel has wanted to know EVERYTHING his people are doing, at all times. This has been an extremely consistent personality trait. Given the emphasis and worked-up nature of the teen from Herschel's group running in to report to Herschel that "It" (zombies stuck in the bog) happened again, I don't see the capture of any zombie and putting it in the barn as something so routine as to go without mention. Also, your point about Otis having done it, then having time to go deer hunting is a chronology they've fast-forwarded past. As portrayed, we're expected to believe Otis wrangled Zophia into the barn alone, and then went and got his rifle to go deer-hunting, and he didn't say anything about it to anyone else on the farm. Why would Otis's reaction to the capture and containment of a zombie, especially a young girl turned zombie, be so different from the teen's when he informed Herschel? I'm with you in saying that Kirkman's statement is an illogical cop-out. Even so, we shared another point in our thinking, concerning the woman feeding the Walkers somehow failing to notice a new child-zombie in the barn. Especially when these newcomers are all up in arms 24/7 about a missing little girl. Implausible, to say the VERY least. I agree that the midseason finale was a very satisfying, meaty and solidly crafted pause-point before the series picks up in February. I think they're going a bit far with black-hatting Shane as heavily as they have just because he doesn't play nicety-nice all the time. Shane's statements to Lori about how many times he's saved hers and Carl's lives hits on this point quite well IMO. All in all, an excellent post Trin, and one I agree with wholeheartedly.

[MinionZombie]

Holy shit that was a powerful mid season cliff hanger there, really well done scene & at that point it clicked why its been fairly slow burning in this series up until that point. What happened there is going to change every single character in that scene in one way or another for good... Aye, they really go all-out with that sequence - I'll re-watch it on the Sky+ over lunch methinks. I personally watched the episode early as I sure as shit didn't want to stumble on any spoilers (fortunately not a single one dropped, but I'd rather be safe than sorry - and this mid-season-finale could have easily been spoiled completely). I think killing of Daryl would be a terrible idea - he's such a kick ass character. Now, get him into some major scrapes? Sure - his time in the woods by that waterfall were great - but I'd absolutely hate to see that character go. Now I do wonder if someone like T-Dog will be up for the chopping block come the next six episodes - he's not done an awful lot thus far this season, so who knows? I think there's an important dynamic with Glenn & Maggie - a new relationship born in this world specifically, and seeing how it develops compared to that of Rick & Lori, which was long established in the old world and was almost instantly challenged in numerous ways. So I think it's an interesting comparison. Now that Sophia is no more, I wonder if we'll meet any new child characters in the coming episodes ... there's no doubt production issues relating to child actors (with the reduced hours they can legally work), so you can't afford to have too much of that carry on ... but having only one child in this apocalypse-surviving group? I think they need to find Carl a new girlfriend now.

[shootemindehead]

To be fair, the character is still written as a tad too cool for school, for my taste. +1 blah blah blah...(added cos the original message was ahem "Too Short")

[Legion2213]

@ MZ, that would suck badly for Carl when he gets older, he'll have to settle for MILFs and Cougers.

[Gemini]

The premeire and the finale were the real highlights of the season so far. The rest of the episodes were effective in building character but the plot was too static and soap opera for my tastes. Also it kept bothering me that they seemed so safe at the farm, I mean the horse wandering back onto the property after Daryl having lost it proved that the farm is wide open to the outside world. So why so safe? Also, again the menace could be intensified. The neighborhood scene should have been more tense and a closer call, it was a little too casual and "Hollywood" the way Andrea casually wasted a horde of zombies before they hit the road. The comic book version of that scene was much better. Also, why are the zombies growling like animals instead of moaning the way they should? Two raids into town and only one zombie encountered? And it seems they have started using cgi for head shots and zombie kills, that's no good. In a nut shell the season redeemed its overly slow pace with some nice moments here and there, but the action needs to pick up and it needs to be made much more convincing that the zombies could have and did overwhelm the world.

[MinionZombie]

@ MZ, that would suck badly for Carl when he gets older, he'll have to settle for MILFs and Cougers. He'll have to find someone new entirely. Maggie & Glenn are an item, Andrea has a line of suitors waiting in the wings, and Daryl & Carol have some sort of chaste, unspoken 'thing' going on so it seems (kind of sweet really). Just watched the end of 2x07 yet again on Sky+ and it's a stonker alright. Chilling, truly. However, is it just me, or does Sophia (Madeline Lintz) seem quite tall now - did she have a growth spurt, and could that have had something to do with her becoming 'Zophia'? It's a great plot point, a departure from the comics, but it also solves a potential production problem. Perhaps I'm wrong - it'd have to be compared to season 1. To anyone worried about the next six episodes becoming another hunt - I wouldn't be so sure - theory below:   Looking at that 2x08 preview again, it seems as if Herschel is found in a bar by Rick - indeed I saw a picture which seemed to suggest that on AMC's website - and you see Herschel pull a hip flask out of a drawer ... so I'd reckon he turns back to booze and they'll find him in a bar in 2x08.

[Legion2213]

Gemini, I was under the impression that all headshots were CGI anyway, maybe some just look a bit better than others. The lack of zombies actually breaching the farm is a bit disappointing. Have you seen the "coming next episode" part at the end of episode 7?   it shows the farm being invaded...I think it's the walkers who were stired up on the housing estate personaly, which would make sense IMO Edit: Nice spot on the T-shirt, MZ As for growth spurts, didn't they have to totally re-write Lost when that young lad sprouted to about 6ft in a few months?