TWD 5x08 "Coda" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN*

[Doc]

Have you guys seen the fan petition to "bring back beth" which is currently doing the rounds on facebook? Made me chuckle.. Season 5 episode 9 opens on beth with a bandage around her head like Wile E. Coyote. I have to say that I am rather bothered by the death of Beth. Not because she was a particularly compelling character in any way, but that the death was clearly used as a cheap stunt. One of the problems that plagued the Mazzara era of Walking Dead was that it also used character deaths for cheap stunts. For shock value. Under Mazzara, it seemed like the only time a TWD redshirt could get any camera-time was on the verge of their death. When the Gimple Regime took helm though, they started to repudiate this bad habit by focusing on each individual group throughout the season and actually trying to build characters instead, of walking caricatures or dictating characterizations for the temporary means of the plot. I gave the Season 4 ender big applause in the end for not killing any regulars off at the time. Now, it seems that the Gimple Gang has devolved on this position and have gone back to the tiring habit of giving a telegraphed death to a character and killing them off with no purpose. They have regressed back to Mazzaraish standards and it's a big disappointment. These type of shock tactics won't sustain this show for much longer and I already feel this might be a sign that it's in decline.

[MinionZombie]

Please tell me this is a joke? And for the record Sundays suck again. Not a joke. Some people make no sense whatsoever ... she was shot in the head FFS! Also ... you do wonder about some of these people, what show have they been watching, have they missed all the other characters who have been killed off suddenly and/or brutally?! Sad to see Beth go, but I'm glad that she got a good character arc and that she wasn't just another warrior ... some have said that she was the innocence of the show, and now that too has been lost, along with the moral compass (Hershel, and formerly Dale). Dark times coming perhaps ... this'll throw several characters into a tailspin, particularly Maggie and Daryl, and Rick was pretty busted up about it too. They all were, but particularly those three.

[Moon Knight]

I have to say that I am rather bothered by the death of Beth. Not because she was a particularly compelling character in any way, but that the death was clearly used as a cheap stunt. One of the problems that plagued the Mazzara era of Walking Dead was that it also used character deaths for cheap stunts. For shock value. Under Mazzara, it seemed like the only time a TWD redshirt could get any camera-time was on the verge of their death. When the Gimple Regime took helm though, they started to repudiate this bad habit by focusing on each individual group throughout the season and actually trying to build characters instead, of walking caricatures or dictating characterizations for the temporary means of the plot. I gave the Season 4 ender big applause in the end for not killing any regulars off at the time. Now, it seems that the Gimple Gang has devolved on this position and have gone back to the tiring habit of giving a telegraphed death to a character and killing them off with no purpose. They have regressed back to Mazzaraish standards and it's a big disappointment. These type of shock tactics won't sustain this show for much longer and I already feel this might be a sign that it's in decline. Gotta disagree on this one. Beth had plenty of build up prior to her death. Her demise was even foreshadowed back in season 4. Not a cheap stunt at all; nothing like T-Dogg or Axel's deaths. People die often in the books, if anything, the show protects its characters a little too much.

[MinionZombie]

Gotta disagree on this one. Beth had plenty of build up prior to her death. Her demise was even foreshadowed back in season 4. Not a cheap stunt at all; nothing like T-Dogg or Axel's deaths. People die often in the books, if anything, the show protects its characters a little too much. At least with T-Dogg he died saving Carol, but it was somewhat telling that Mazzara described 3x04's double-kill as a way to lure people into a false sense of security (like, "oh, we've had a death, now everyone's safe" and then BAM! Lori dies) ... now, that method did work, but it is also a smidge manipulative. I thought that episode worked very well, but at the same time it was a bit harsh on T-Dogg (especially as they'd finally started doing much more with him). Axel - yeah, we never got enough Axel, you follow me? ... I was disappointed when he got bumped off so suddenly without enough screentime, although I don't mind how he died. Indeed, the mid-sentence head shot kill was used for a major character in the comics at one point. Beth developed a lot from the girl in season two who was more than ready to just give up on life and slit her wrists. She grew gradually over season two and three, and then really started coming forth more and more in season four - and then they gave her a really good climax to her arc here in season 5A. I don't want the show to be killing off people left, right, and centre, because if they've made it this far into the ZA then there's a reason for that. They're capable of defending themselves and generally think and act with intelligence (although Sasha had a severe brain fart with Officer Bob! ) If they just bumped them off here and there the deaths would become less meaningful, you want to get the most impact out of them, but also have them at a place where there's a bit of worth in them dying - you want to get the most out of that character - and I think they got everything they could out of Beth by the time her death came so suddenly in 5x08. Better to go out on a high, then reach a high and then hang about in the background for a bit and then randomly get munched by a walker or something, you know?

[Moon Knight]

At least with T-Dogg he died saving Carol, but it was somewhat telling that Mazzara described 3x04's double-kill as a way to lure people into a false sense of security (like, "oh, we've had a death, now everyone's safe" and then BAM! Lori dies) ... now, that method did work, but it is also a smidge manipulative. I thought that episode worked very well, but at the same time it was a bit harsh on T-Dogg (especially as they'd finally started doing much more with him). Don't get me wrong, Z, I LOVED T- Dogg's death, he'll, Axel too. My main gripe was you could tell they were dead when suddenly they have more than 2 lines and a sense of importance. Axel should have played a bigger role like he did in the comics, especially with the great Lew Temple playing him, but not everyone can have thier moments, you follow me? I wasn't a big Beth fan but looking back on her character, her death saddens me. She had a good ride and probably did way more than what was originally intended for her. Now I'm just waiting for the time when they decide to kill more than one person on an episode. "The Red Wedding" anyone? As long as Rosita lives I'm good.

[rongravy]

Now if someone could just pull the plug on her singing career... Yeah-yeah, yeahhh, yeah-yeah. Yah-yah-yah-yah-yah-yah...

[Neil]

That's quite a catchy song, but her voice is too high pitched and throaty for it.... Love to hear the same song with someone else singing it... Maybe with a bit more of a "street sound" - Lily Allen or Pixie Lott come to mind...

[MinionZombie]

Not my kind of music, but I did find the "yeah yeah yeah" bit quite catchy and interesting. Kinney did a version of "Parting Glass" (which, IIRC, also had Lauren Cohan on vocals duty too) and that was very well suited to her voice. That track I thought was excellent.

[Neil]

Minion, you really need to remember to turn that web cam of yours off!

[MinionZombie]

heh, that dude really must have loved Beth! Also - he missed Morgan's post-credits segment ... too stricken with grief evidently. I wonder if that was a second reaction, or was he recording his reaction to the entire episode? These young folk today... It was definitely a very sad sequence - brilliantly played by all involved - although I do recall watching 3x04 and just being stunned when Rick collapses in totally unguarded, abject grief.

[MoonSylver]

Now if someone could just pull the plug on her singing career... Hey, let hot chicks sing all they want. Just don't listen. Minion, you really need to remember to turn that web cam of yours off! BEEEEEETH!!!!!!

[AcesandEights]

Now if someone could just pull the plug on her singing career... Yeah-yeah, yeahhh, yeah-yeah. Yah-yah-yah-yah-yah-yah... What did I just watch?

[rongravy]

What did I just watch? Well, for starters... Some seriously lame choreographed dance moves, and Beth's cold, dead eyes. I will admit to the song being somewhat stuck in my head now. I've been walking around with the yeah yeahs...

[Doc]

Gotta disagree on this one. Beth had plenty of build up prior to her death. Her demise was even foreshadowed back in season 4. Not a cheap stunt at all; nothing like T-Dogg or Axel's deaths. People die often in the books, if anything, the show protects its characters a little too much. I understand what you're going with here. It was disappointing for me because the Gimple Gang seem to have given this bad habit a "F You" in the second half of Season Four with them at the very least trying, to make us care and attempt to develop minor or supporting characters like Bob, Sasha, Beth, and Tara. Compare that to how minor/supporting characters were treated under Mazzara and it's pretty impressive. Mazzara killed off characters without rhyme or reason. In fact, I bet if Mazzara had still been on during Season Four he would've axed Carol, Bob, and Beth early on just for more pointless shock. Don't get me wrong, Z, I LOVED T- Dogg's death, he'll, Axel too. My main gripe was you could tell they were dead when suddenly they have more than 2 lines and a sense of importance. Axel should have played a bigger role like he did in the comics, especially with the great Lew Temple playing him, but not everyone can have thier moments, you follow me? That's a constant problem for this show. And one that has to be amended if it doesn't want to fall in a formulaic pattern. Well, I guess it already has. What happen the moment T-Dog was given more of a presence and dialogue? BAM! Dead. What happen the moment Axel got more lines and a scene or two? BAM! Dead. What happen the moment Oscar got more of a presence and another black character (this can apply to T-Dog as well) was introduce? BAM! Dead. What happen to Merle the moment he became a more compelling character other than a stereotypical redneck in 'This Sorrowful Life'? Did they choose to take the character to new heights? Nope. BAM! Dead. What happen to Bob the moment he had more dialogue than usual in an episode and with the possibility of another black member being added to the group? BAM! Dead. What happen the moment Beth got an entire episode and portions of two others dedicated to her? BAM! Dead. Seriously, these types of telegraphed deaths have to stop! They bring the show down to predictable levels and are completely without reason. At least out of all of these Bob and Merle got a semi good sendoffs. Beth could've gone many more directions, imo. This was a chance for WD to talk a rather bland character and actually try to do something with her instead, of following the old tiring formula that has plagued it since the beginning. They could've altered the formula and forge forth to a new WD that offered more for discussion than just shocking deaths. The Gimple Gang dropped the ball here. Let's hope the second half doesn't lead to anymore 'shocks'. I'm actually wondering about Sasha now....

[Publius]

That's a constant problem for this show. And one that has to be amended if it doesn't want to fall in a formulaic pattern. Well, I guess it already has. What happen the moment T-Dog was given more of a presence and dialogue? BAM! Dead. What happen the moment Axel got more lines and a scene or two? BAM! Dead. What happen the moment Oscar got more of a presence and another black character (this can apply to T-Dog as well) was introduce? BAM! Dead. What happen to Merle the moment he became a more compelling character other than a stereotypical redneck in 'This Sorrowful Life'? Did they choose to take the character to new heights? Nope. BAM! Dead. What happen to Bob the moment he had more dialogue than usual in an episode and with the possibility of another black member being added to the group? BAM! Dead. What happen the moment Beth got an entire episode and portions of two others dedicated to her? BAM! Dead. Seriously, these types of telegraphed deaths have to stop! They bring the show down to predictable levels and are completely without reason. Well, if you look only at the characters who were killed off precisely at the time when the spotlight was on them, like the ones you list above, you'll see that kind of "pattern." But I don't think that's truly representative. You also can find plenty of examples of characters who were always major but were killed off (Shane, Lori, Hershel, Dale, Andrea, the Governor), and characters who were killed off without ever getting a real dialogue/presence focus (any number of characters who had names and/or a few lines of dialogue but no real character development). If you take a more universal view, I think they actually do a pretty good job of making sure it's possible for people to die at any point: major characters, people you're just getting to know, and people you were barely introduced to.