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  1. #1
    Banned Svengoolie's Avatar
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    Submitted for your approval...

    Believe it or not, I'm a mod at about seven sites here and there throughout the web...dedicated to different things.

    At one of the sites where I'm a prolific poster, I was given my very own sub-forum to talk about whatever I wanted to talk about, and I started a thread where people had to watch a different movie each week and report back on it.

    Most of the film assignments are horror, and we have alot of non-heated discussions and debates about them. They're not heated because they're not the die hard fans we have around here who take the slightest offence.

    I'm going to reprint a response to the Dawn of the Dead (78) assignment we had about a week ago. Tell me what you all think....

    OK, Dawn of the Dead.

    First of all, I have to say that I normally don't like films with this degree of blood and gore-- a matter of personal taste I guess. But in this particular film, I feel all the gore is necessary to the atmosphere of the film. This is not the '50s vision of zombies sort of just pointlessly staggering around with arms outstretched-- it shows WHY people would be afraid, in graphic detail sometimes. But the blood and guts stuff is very quick, and certainly must satisfy horror fans who are into it. Doesn't particularly bother me in this instance.

    Also, I'm REALLY not a zombie-flick fan in general... but you know what? I REALLY LOVE THIS MOVIE. I'm not even that sure about WHY I like it so much, although it probably has a lot to do with the really fun concept of being holed up in a shopping mall with the entire place to oneself, especially in the '70s. More about that later.

    I must admit that normally when I watch this film (I have it on DVD), I'll skip the opening scenes at the television station and the carnage in the apartment buildings and whatnot. The film drags a bit in the first 20 minutes or so, but to be fair it's actually really necessary to show the end of civilization as we know it, to see society disintegrating in the face of the apocalyptic threat that is the zombie "disease". It's ABSOLUTELY ****ing necessary to show the gradual breakdown of morals and ethics and whatnot, as shown by the increasingly extreme viewpoints of the people discussing the events... it's just that I get bored in these first scenes.

    The film DOES start rather abruptly, there's not a lot of background to the main characters (Flyboy, Peter, Roger, and I think the chick is named Francy or something.. they don't call her by name much), but in these opening scenes we get some sort of idea of what these people are doing, why they're fleeing, how they come together, etc. A little abrupt but not by today's standards.

    Little things really stand out to me, like when they're fleeing in the helicopter and come across some guys who are trying to escape the area in a boat... one of the dudes from the boat asks if anyone has any cigarettes to share, and all the main characters say "No". Then as they are lifting off in the chopper, you see 2 of them lighting up. Now, this is a tiny little detail, but I love this bit-- it shows how selfish they already are, from the get-go, just in case the point didn't get made when they chose to take off in the first place. It's not as though I would do any different or that I blame them-- it's merely illustrating the reality of the decision.

    I really love the way Romero portrays the mob mentality of people when we move into the "escape" section of the film, and we reach the Redneck Hunting Jamboree. He really makes people in general look ridiculous, and this part of the film makes me laugh every time I see it.

    Once they finally make it to the shopping mall is where the film really begins, and it's what I usually FF to, LOL. It's the "meat" of the film, or the brains, if you prefer.

    Romero's satire of the then-burgeoning consumer culture is the funniest and most accurate statement about the degeneration and dehumanization of our society that I've ever seen. See, THIS is why I love horror films-- the best ones, IMO, are ones that are metaphorical commentaries on the darker aspects of human existence. I know that's a coked-up geek thing to say, but in this case I'll stand behind it anyway. Around this time in the 70s you had these huge shopping malls being constructed, and I think the portrayal of these places being filled with mindless zombies stroking the glass display boxes with big wide eyes is very clever and apt. The slide-whistle-laden mall muzak sets the tone for the absurdity of the situation.

    I gotta say, I do miss the late '70s. Even the chocolate brown/white colour scheme of the place is inviting to me, LOL... certainly something you don't see a lot of anymore. When I first saw this film a few years ago, I was really struck by nostalgia-- in particular, seeing the Penney's dept. store, with the old logo and everything. Wasn't "J.C." yet I guess. The architecture of the place SO reminds me of local shopping malls that were built in the late '70s and early '80s, the painted brick and the almost non-existent decor is something that I actually miss for some strange reason. These local malls have all been spruced up in recent decades, and look nothing like this anymore, so this must be a purely nostalgic reaction on my part. And I'm NOT SORRY!

    All right, I've just realized how long this ****ing post is already, so I'll try to keep the rest to a minimum.

    I have to say, I'm always disturbed by the infection of Roger. He's my favourite character, and it's always upsetting to me for some reason, LOL. When I first saw the film, I actually yelled "NO!". At the TV. I wanted Flyboy to get killed first.

    But here we come to the part of the film I love the most-- the raiding of the mall and the VERY cool scene in the arcade where they play the old video games and the projection games. I don't know of any other record of that driving game they show in it, although I VAGUELY remember seeing the game back in the '70s. I LOVE that ****. In fact, I could have gone for another 5 minutes of them just going through various shops and grabbing merchandise.

    The death of Roger is the real end of any sort of morality in the film, which is an important point in the plot, underscored by the suggestion of one of the talk-show guys insisting that eating the dead is the only chance for survival. Great filmmaking IMO.

    From here on in, the emptiness of their existence in the "dream" of consumerism/materialism is explored, with the soulless boredom of Flyboy, Francy, and Peter depicted with an excellent soundtrack punctuating their pointless existence.

    Then we come to the final act of the film, the attack by the marauders. This scene really shows them battling for survival, a battle initiated by Flyboy's aggressive greed which of course he pays for. More carnage here, but then again it's pretty much deserved. At this point I have very little sympathy for anyone involved, which is sort of the point I think.

    Of course I am glad when the ending is fairly up, because I've grown to like the remaining characters, but we've seen their journey from normal people into their descent into survivalist mode, and are left without any sort of clear message about their behaviour-- which is how it SHOULD be, IMO. I really hate heavy-handed messages or films which punish all of the evil and reward all of the good, because that's just not ****ing reality and I find those sort of sentiments to be cloying and irritating.

    So I wind up really loving this movie. It's the only zombie movie that I even like enough to own, and I've actually considered buying the big special edition version of it, especially since I recently saw it on sale for $16. It's the only one that I'd actually recommend to other horror fans, and I watch it every 6 months or so. If even just to watch the video games and the merchandise "shopping" sprees, and to watch that big fat dude in the shorts flopping into the mall fountain, which always makes me laugh.

    The fat dude in the shorts, the older dude in the sweater vest, and the nurse are definitely my fave zombies, BTW.

    I think that's enough babbling from me about this film.


  2. #2
    Survey Time axlish's Avatar
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    This guy just captured my feelings in a bottle. I must admit that the first time I saw Dawn, I didn't even realise it was a sequel to Night (which I have adored since a very young age). I liked Dawn for its own reasons, separate from Night, and they both hold up as a standalone film. Has this person seen Day or Night? It'd be interesting to hear this person's take.

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    Banned Svengoolie's Avatar
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    Not yet, axlish.

    Right now, we're talking about stuff that actually got me flamed here a few weeks back:

    1. Whether or not Stephen is the Main Character of that film (and how I tied it into the social commentary).

    2. Whether or not he feels Stephen murdered the radio operator to faciliate his theft of the chopper.

  4. #4
    Just been bitten creepntom's Avatar
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  5. #5
    Team Rick MinionZombie's Avatar
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    ROFLCOPTER with a side order of ROFLWAFFLE - that image is f*cking awesome, I larfed my arse off ... *giggles*

  6. #6
    Walking Dead Adrenochrome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by creepntom


    oh man..........coffee on keyboard!!!!! too funny!!!!!

  7. #7
    Walking Dead coma's Avatar
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    I agree with almost all of that post. Extrememly astute. What I disagree with is the 1st 20 munutes dragging. The 1st 30 or so times I saw DOTD, My Stomach was in knots the whole time. When I was a kid and saw it the first time I almost puked from the tension. I think the middle (shopping, skating, waitng) section after Roger dies is way slower, but I don't think it drags.

    I don't think Steven is the main character, but I think he is supposed to represent "us". Roger and Peter are (mostly) cool professionals, but flyboy is the confused, bumbling FNG. I think all of the Characters are reprented pretty equally. If anything I would say Roger, which makes it more interesting that he dies halfway through.

    "2. Whether or not he feels Stephen murdered the radio operator to faciliate his theft of the chopper."
    I think it may have been left ambiguous on purpose. Flyboy did look pretty anguished. But maybe that was being so up close and personal woth a body. I don't think he had a wepon, and he was way to spazzu to kill someone hand to hand.
    Next time I go to a showing or something and GAR is there, now have MY QUESTION.

  8. #8
    Walking Dead Adrenochrome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coma

    "2. Whether or not he feels Stephen murdered the radio operator to faciliate his theft of the chopper."
    I think it may have been left ambiguous on purpose. Flyboy did look pretty anguished. But maybe that was being so up close and personal woth a body. I don't think he had a wepon, and he was way to spazzu to kill someone hand to hand.
    Next time I go to a showing or something and GAR is there, now have MY QUESTION.
    the guy commited suicide. It's pretty obvious.
    and, you're right, Flyboy was weaponless until they landed at the airport.

  9. #9
    In the extended version, we see Stephen walk into the fueling station and discover the dead radio operator, so there's no question about Stephen murdering him. Or are you referring to the theatrical cut, where it cuts to Flyboy lifting the dead operator's head back, giving the impression that he shot him? In that version, when I was a child, I got the impression that Flyboy had killed him, however since I've grown, I realize that Stephen's too much of a pansy at that point in the film to have done such an act of violence.

  10. #10
    Arcade Master Philly_SWAT's Avatar
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    Hey Svengoolie, why not post a link to the site you are referring to? I would like to check it out.

    As far his post, I could talk about Dawn forever, but I won't here. I will say that the thing that strikes me about it is he obviously doesnt devote as much time to studing Dawn as some of us do (Francy? lol), but it affects him just the same, even though he doesnt know exactly why.

    PS - Flyboy definately DID NOT kill the radio operator. I would be interested to know what kind of arguments could be made to say he did.

  11. #11
    Banned Svengoolie's Avatar
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    jscott--

    Actually, the only version I've ever seen is the US theatrical cut. The way I see it, stuff was cut from the assembled footage for a reason. Whatever that reason may be is up to debate.

    As a result, I've always had the impression that Flyboy whacked him.

    Philly--

    I'd love to, but it's a private forum open to membership by invite only. Not my rules--it's not my place...I'm just a guest there.

  12. #12
    Team Rick MinionZombie's Avatar
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    I'd say it was cut down to 2 hours for timing and pace reasons. Not once have I ever thought Flyboy killed the radio operator, especially as the guys on the other end of the radio sound like they've been sat there trying to get in contact for a while. Also the body looks like it's been there for longer than a few moments and Flyboy is quite taken aback when he delivers the "radio out" message to the guys on the other end.

    And using hindsight from viewing Flyboy a little later in the film he's blatantly too much of a wimp to kill another human being.

  13. #13
    Zombie Flesh Eater EvilNed's Avatar
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    Is this going to turn into another debate, where one side is hopelessly outnumbered and starts flinging poo at his opponents?

  14. #14
    Team Rick MinionZombie's Avatar
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    *promptly dons the water & poo proof macintosh and matching face guard*


  15. #15
    Twitching MaximusIncredulous's Avatar
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    I always under the impression, after seeing the extended cut, that the Pilato character shot the operator. Perhaps he was giving them static about running.

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