Girl wins battle to wear jewellery to school...

[Neil]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7529694.stm Way to intergrate and fit in... Make yourself stand out more by being different and 'special'! I believe the Kara bangle only came into being about 300 years ago, so this is a recent/modern addition to the faith... So surely can't be that important! God religion is stupid and divisive!

[horrormad]

Sorry I know this may offend some of you but If she doesnt like the rules over here she should go back to her own country we have to go by the rules who shouldnt she

[Neil]

Sorry I know this may offend some of you but If she doesnt like the rules over here she should go back to her own country we have to go by the rules who shouldnt she Yes, that is offensive... http://forum.homepageofthedead.com/f...#faq_disc_item But we do seem to have double (daft) standards at play... Hence my post...

[SymphonicX]

Sorry I know this may offend some of you but If she doesnt like the rules over here she should go back to her own country we have to go by the rules who shouldnt she It's very ignorant for you to say that. How do you know if she's born here or an immigrant? She's got as much right to be here as you or me. The absolute worst way for anyone to react to these situations is "well if you don't like it then get out"...that solves nothing, makes no one feel better and only alienates the people you're slaying, unnecessarily. My opinion is, christ who cares if she wears a bangle or not? Neil you mention "fitting in" but to be honest, I think there's too much fitting in, too much sheepery and turning our kids into drones, boring, inhuman people who all look the same....I say banish that idealogy and promote a sense of good will to people's freedom of choice.

[horrormad]

It's very ignorant for you to say that. How do you know if she's born here or an immigrant? She's got as much right to be here as you or me. The absolute worst way for anyone to react to these situations is "well if you don't like it then get out"...that solves nothing, makes no one feel better and only alienates the people you're slaying, unnecessarily. My opinion is, christ who cares if she wears a bangle or not? Neil you mention "fitting in" but to be honest, I think there's too much fitting in, too much sheepery and turning our kids into drones, boring, inhuman people who all look the same....I say banish that idealogy and promote a sense of good will to people's freedom of choice. Well that my opinion why should they get to do stuff we dont.

[Neil]

Neil you mention "fitting in" but to be honest, I think there's too much fitting in, too much sheepery and turning our kids into drones, boring, inhuman people who all look the same....I say banish that idealogy and promote a sense of good will to people's freedom of choice. The idea at school is there's a simple uniform which everyone conforms to, mainly to make disciplin a straight forward matter. There's no question of is this OK, or that OK? Now if a regilion dictates a garment etc then fair enough, but the Kara from my understanding is quite a modern addition and not mandatory (?am I right/wrong?)... So all this does is:- 1) Make a divisive move in the school. 2) Waste a lot of time. 3) Waste a lot of money. 4) Make a divisive move in society. Is it really so important to wear a ring of metal to resort to legal action?

[bassman]

Mr. T is pleased. Why was jewelry banned from her school, anyway? I don't remember it being banned when I was in high school...

[Neil]

Mr. T is pleased. Why was jewelry banned from her school, anyway? I don't remember it being banned when I was in high school... Because it's unecessary... The whole idea of a uniform is its non-divisive. ie: You don't get some kids who are well off turning up in designer kit, while other who are not so well off come in not such 'cool' stuff. It also means there's no time wasted on saying what is OK or not (ie: holes in jeans, low cut tops, sleeveless t-shirts etc etc).

[SymphonicX]

The idea at school is there's a simple uniform which everyone conforms to, mainly to make disciplin a straight forward matter. There's no question of is this OK, or that OK? Now if a regilion dictates a garment etc then fair enough, but the Kara from my understanding is quite a modern addition and not mandatory (?am I right/wrong?)... So all this does is:- 1) Make a divisive move in the school. 2) Waste a lot of time. 3) Waste a lot of money. 4) Make a divisive move in society. Is it really so important to wear a ring of metal to resort to legal action? Well when you approach it from that angle you're bound to draw these conclusions... ask yourself... Should a school uniform be there for anything else other than being able to tell which kids are from your school and which are from the other school when you're on a school trip? Nope. Should jewelery be allowed in moderate context as long as it doesn't pose a danger to themselves or other children? Yes. That was always the rule in my school and a lot of bracelets and jewelery was worn, and shock horror: no eyes were taken out....(well, with knives, not jewelery) The religious symbolism has nothing to do with it. If this was a ring or necklace that her dead mother had given her, we'd probably be approaching this differently no? The fact that you don't necessarily think that it bears much relevance to her religion is moot - she obviously feels passionate enough about it that she wants to fight to wear it. And yeah it only wastes a lot of time, and a lot of money, because the beaurocracy and red tape has dictated this drawn out process, it's not her problem if the system is stupid to the point where she has to go to court to protect something she sees as important in her life. You say divisive, I believe we should all be mature enough to CELEBRATE our differences rather than see them as something to hide. If we did that to every subtle nuance to our personalities and dress sense then we'd all be the same. I think promoting conformity in society is destructive because it causes problems when people aren't able to naturally conform. So she'sa sikh...great! so she wears a bangle and oh my lord, the world keeps turning Because it's unecessary... The whole idea of a uniform is its non-divisive. ie: You don't get some kids who are well off turning up in designer kit, while other who are not so well off come in not such 'cool' stuff. It also means there's no time wasted on saying what is OK or not (ie: holes in jeans, low cut tops, sleeveless t-shirts etc etc). I think that argument is wafer thin tbh, you know who's poor and who's rich in school regardless, I was poor, some other kids were rich, and they still have non-uniform days anyway, which will always be telling. We all wore uniforms, it means nothing. The jewelery issue can apply to that if some kid comes to school all blinged up, but 9/10 kids won't want to turn up looking like Puff Daddy because the "have nots" are usually the bullies and will steal your **** anyway! And I also believe is more unnecessary to concentrate on issues like this than it is unnecessary for kids to be able to wear a cheap bangle and end up going through court about it...

[Neil]

Well your argument is basically suggesting no school uniform... I'm all for uniforms - It saves so much time. Imagine having to vet every pupil to ensure what they're wearing is acceptable. We all know kids love standing out and pushing the boundaries, and a defined simple school uniform sorts this out simply... You say divisive, I believe we should all be mature enough to CELEBRATE our differences rather than see them as something to hide. If we did that to every subtle nuance to our personalities and dress sense then we'd all be the same. I think promoting conformity in society is destructive because it causes problems when people aren't able to naturally conform. So she'sa sikh...great! so she wears a bangle and oh my lord, the world keeps turning 'Mature enough'? Ironic as we're talking about kids Again, I think uniforms are just too beneficial. Teachers have already got enough to worry about, without having to stop children from wearing odd clothing every day! Yes, she's a Sikh, and now she's allowed to wear some jewellery, and now all the rest of the girls will want to, and then more... and then... and then... A nice simple rule of no jewellery solves it all... Unfortunately, this young girl decided she couldn't fit in with this, and decided to kickup a massive fuss and expense over it...

[SymphonicX]

I see your point but this isn't an issue about kids, it's an issue about the message we promote to kids with rules and regulations that are designed to promote obedience and conformity, whilst on some hands that's a good thing, it can also be very destructive. I never said I didn't believe in uniforms, I'm saying that the argument you made about them bringing everyone onto the same social level is moot because people's social and financial stature is on display well before the uniform issue comes about, anyway, many rich kids had expensive school uniforms, whilst the poorer kids had stuff bought from the market and it showed. I think uniforms are necessary, but aside from ridiculous bling, a bangle or an ear-ring really is nothing to get excited about. I remember some boy being expelled because he shaved his head into a mohawk - tell me, who does it hurt when a kid does this? No one, that's my point...the world keeps turning as I said! Our school regulations clearly read "a stud in the ear for boys and small non-dangling earrings for girls. Rings are acceptable as long as they don't protrude" - this rule, believe it or not, was followed pretty much rigourously, no issues from the kids at all. What didn't happen was the "no white trainers" rule, which wasn't adhered to at all, and eventually they ended up changing the rules to "black trainers are acceptable" but still, the kids would wear white trainers...bottom line: people will wear what they want to wear.

[Mike70]

what an idiotic statement this is: I'm so happy to know that no-one else will go through what me and my family have gone through melodrama at its finest. it was a row over jewellry not a life and death struggle against incredible odds. the way i feel about things like this is if someone wants to wear religious items at school then go to a religious school. public schools (over here ones that are supported by state tax money) should have every right to ban any item of clothing or decoration that they see fit, religious or otherwise. period. things like this always make me glad that i am an atheist.

[Kaos]

Again, I think uniforms are just too beneficial. Teachers have already got enough to worry about, without having to stop children from wearing odd clothing every day! Oddly enough, my wife is a teacher at a public school, and she doesn't have any problems associated with the children's attire in her class.

[Neil]

I see your point but this isn't an issue about kids, it's an issue about the message we promote to kids with rules and regulations that are designed to promote obedience and conformity, whilst on some hands that's a good thing, it can also be very destructive. I never said I didn't believe in uniforms, I'm saying that the argument you made about them bringing everyone onto the same social level is moot because people's social and financial stature is on display well before the uniform issue comes about, anyway, many rich kids had expensive school uniforms, whilst the poorer kids had stuff bought from the market and it showed. Yep, I'll give you that... It is a pretty weak argument probably... I think uniforms are necessary, but aside from ridiculous bling, a bangle or an ear-ring really is nothing to get excited about. I remember some boy being expelled because he shaved his head into a mohawk - tell me, who does it hurt when a kid does this? No one, that's my point...the world keeps turning as I said! Our school regulations clearly read "a stud in the ear for boys and small non-dangling earrings for girls. Rings are acceptable as long as they don't protrude" - this rule, believe it or not, was followed pretty much rigourously, no issues from the kids at all. What didn't happen was the "no white trainers" rule, which wasn't adhered to at all, and eventually they ended up changing the rules to "black trainers are acceptable" but still, the kids would wear white trainers...bottom line: people will wear what they want to wear. And all/nothing rule is the easiest to live with... No jewellery rule, easy to understand, and easy to enforce. Some jewellery rule, hard to understand, and impossible to enforce. Can't see what kids need to wear jewellery to school, so surely no biggy about a nice simple rule of, leave it at home! Oddly enough, my wife is a teacher at a public school, and she doesn't have any problems associated with the children's attire in her class. A 'good' public school, if you get my meaning...?

[SymphonicX]

Yep, I'll give you that... It is a pretty weak argument probably... And all/nothing rule is the easiest to live with... No jewellery rule, easy to understand, and easy to enforce. Some jewellery rule, hard to understand, and impossible to enforce. Can't see what kids need to wear jewellery to school, so surely no biggy about a nice simple rule of, leave it at home! A 'good' public school, if you get my meaning...? I do hear what you're saying, you opt for the easier route, just ban everything...sounds harsher than you obviously mean it, but mostly I really don't think that's an answer rather than an excuse not to deal with it...I dunno...I do see where you're coming from though...