Cameron bashing

[shootemindehead]

Cameron's film (Titanic) is bloody awful, until the ship hits the iceberg. He's not that hot a director IMHO anyway. The "love story" is insipid and wholly redundant. There are some terrifying parts in the last hour though.

[Neil]

Cameron's film is bloody awful, until the ship hits the iceberg. He's not that hot a director IMHO anyway. The "love story" is insipid and wholly redundant. There are some terrifying parts in the last hour though. Here we go again Yes, we know some people think Titanic is:- - The worse film ever. - Even worse than the worse film ever. - The opening titles are 3 seconds too long making the whole film shite. - etc etc... Can I point out other people:- - Quite enjoy the flick - Can overlook issues they have with it, even if they don't overally enjoy the film, to realise this doesn't then make it "bloody aweful". "The "love story" is insipid and wholly redundant." - In your opinion. Without it, it's just the same as the other half a dozen factually based dramas we already have/had, making it wholly redundant surely? I quite enjoy the fact/fiction mix of it to bring a different take on the disaster. If you don't enjoy this aspect of it, watch "A Night To Remember" or FFWD to the last hour The fact you come to the conclusion Cameron's "not that hot a director" seems bizarre IMHO. He's written and directed some truly astoundingly good films which have at times defined cinema. Give the man some credit, even if you don't enjoy some or even all of his films. Now, let's move on from the unnecessary Cameron bashing? -- -------- Post added at 01:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:38 PM ---------- I think the story of the Titanic is more than strong enough to support it's self without the need for a love story, which is why I think A Night To Remember is still the best as it encompasses many stories. Absolutely, but how many docu-dramas have we had of Titanic? Over half a dozen? This was Cameron's curve ball take on the disaster... Romeo and Juliet on the Titanic. Some people will enjoy this approach, and it's clear other will not. So is the way of the world... Titanic is a neat retelling of a well known story, to bring something fresh to an already well know event. A Night to Remember is probably the best telling of the actual story. I don't see them competing really...

[SymphonicX]

It was without doubt a genre-defining movie. Without Titanic, we'd not have enjoyed such amazing gems as "Pearl Harbour" and "Armageddon". Ahh, the old disaster movie offset by a love story... I hhhhhhhhhhhhate this film. As you say though, the last hour is great.

[Neil]

It was without doubt a genre-defining movie. Without Titanic, we'd not have enjoyed such amazing gems as "Pearl Harbour" and "Armageddon". Ahh, the old disaster movie offset by a love story... I hhhhhhhhhhhhate this film. As you say though, the last hour is great. Huh! Your quibble with Titanic is not even the film itself, and any rational thoughts about it, but films that came out after it? I really don't get why some people feel the need to be so binary about "Titanic". If you don't enjoy the drama/love story aspect of the film, fine. It's not your cup-of-tea. But this - with a rational thought process at least - does not reduce the film to "bloody aweful"!? There's a difference between someone not enjoying something and coming to the conclusing it's rubbish because of that. People seem to be very unfair at times about this, especially when the thing in question is successful!

[Knighty]

"Absolutely, but how many docu-dramas have we had of Titanic? Over half a dozen? This was Cameron's curve ball take on the disaster... Romeo and Juliet on the Titanic. Some people will enjoy this approach, and it's clear other will not. So is the way of the world... Titanic is a neat retelling of a well known story, to bring something fresh to an already well know event. A Night to Remember is probably the best telling of the actual story. I don't see them competing really..." Seeing as he is such an historic buff especially on this subject, I do. I wouldn't mind the story as much if he hadn't decided it should take precedence over everything else and if it wasn't quite so cheesy and watching it back it really really is. Plus it doesn't have Tim Curry doing a silly accent The 3D conversion is brilliant though, you can tell time has gone into it as opposed to Clash Of The Titans

[AcesandEights]

I really don't get why some people feel the need to be so binary about "Titanic". We had some well rounded views on it the Manly Men Sound Off poll.

[bassman]

I wouldn't mind the story as much if he hadn't decided it should take precedence over everything else and if it wasn't quite so cheesy and watching it back it really really is. Cheesy is of course a valid argument(love is cheesy too though, ain't it? ), but I never understand people that say the movie mainly focused on Jack and Rose's story. I've always felt that Cameron did a brilliant job of creating two fictional characters and weaving their story into the real life events and people involved. If you think about it....Ismay, Andrews, Brown, Captain Smith, etc are all very important people within the film's plot. Sure, Jack and Rose are the center of it all but to create a captivating three hour story, you're going to need more than the people that were on the real ship. Otherwise it's basically the world's most expensive documentary. As mentioned before in this thread, people are too hard on Cameron's film simply because of the love story. It has it's flaws, but to call the entire film "bloody awful" in every way is just silly, imo....

[shootemindehead]

Here we go again Again? eh? Yes, we know some people think Titanic is:- - The worse film ever. - Even worse than the worse film ever. - The opening titles are 3 seconds too long making the whole film shite. - etc etc... Can I point out other people:- - Quite enjoy the flick - Can overlook issues they have with it, even if they don't overally enjoy the film, to realise this doesn't then make it "bloody aweful". "The "love story" is insipid and wholly redundant." - In your opinion. Without it, it's just the same as the other half a dozen factually based dramas we already have/had, making it wholly redundant surely? I quite enjoy the fact/fiction mix of it to bring a different take on the disaster. If you don't enjoy this aspect of it, watch "A Night To Remember" or FFWD to the last hour I can only speak fom my opinion. Otherwise, it wouldn't be my opinion. In any case, if it's on, I do FF through the insipid lurve story, to where the iceberg brings some much needed urgency to the film. The fact you come to the conclusion Cameron's "not that hot a director" seems bizarre IMHO. He's written and directed some truly astoundingly good films which have at times defined cinema. Give the man some credit, even if you don't enjoy some or even all of his films. Now, let's move on from the unnecessary Cameron bashing? I just don't think he's that great a director. I don't like 'The Abyss', 'Terminator 2', 'Rambo', 'Titanic', 'True Lies', 'Avatar' or emmmm 'Piranha II'. -- -------- Post added at 03:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:45 PM ---------- Cheesy is of course a valid argument(love is cheesy too though, ain't it? ), but I never understand people that say the movie mainly focused on Jack and Rose's story. I've always felt that Cameron did a brilliant job of creating two fictional characters and weaving their story into the real life events and people involved. If you think about it....Ismay, Andrews, Brown, Captain Smith, etc are all very important people within the film's plot. Sure, Jack and Rose are the center of it all but to create a captivating three hour story, you're going to need more than the people that were on the real ship. Otherwise it's basically the world's most expensive documentary. As mentioned before in this thread, people are too hard on Cameron's film simply because of the love story. It has it's flaws, but to call the entire film "bloody awful" in every way is just silly, imo.... Why? I think it is generally bloody awful, handicapped by a rather routine and by-the-numbers first half. It's marred horribly by a stupid and childish love story, that's isn't convincing for a single second. But, as I said it does redeem itself somewhat in the second half, when the film actually gets going. IMO, it would have benefitted greatly by the elimination of the love story centre. The only reason a lot of people are willing to look past it's very serious flaws, is because they're wowed by the great effects. Imagine, though, if the effects weren't all that great?

[SymphonicX]

Huh! Your quibble with Titanic is not even the film itself, and any rational thoughts about it, but films that came out after it? I really don't get why some people feel the need to be so binary about "Titanic". If you don't enjoy the drama/love story aspect of the film, fine. It's not your cup-of-tea. But this - with a rational thought process at least - does not reduce the film to "bloody aweful"!? There's a difference between someone not enjoying something and coming to the conclusing it's rubbish because of that. People seem to be very unfair at times about this, especially when the thing in question is successful! Not really, my quibble is that it's an annoyingly tedious romp in the ocean, but I wasn't really talking about how I saw the film....but it's still worth noting that it was genre defining, in support of your pro-titanic stance...it's just a fact that it never actually spawned a movie better than it - but it was indeed a genre defining movie. Just like Pulp Fiction spawned The Usual Suspects, and The Matrix spawned Equilibrium....sometimes its a good thing, sometimes not... But what Titanic did do was create a market for these sort of movies...so if you don't like the film on it's standalone merit, you could argue that looking at the broader picture, Titanic also brought about another world of pain in Pearl Harbour. personally I'm completely indifferent to the movie - can't deny Cameron's talent though. Apparently he's a monster to work with. I have that on good authority. On the flip side, he's the most dedicated film maker in the industry. He even came here a few years back to make sure we'd got the 3D version of Avatar sorted before transmission - oversaw it personally. So kudos to him.

[AcesandEights]

The only reason a lot of people are willing to look past it's very serious flaws, is because they're wowed by the great effects. Imagine, though, if the effects weren't all that great? I like Titanic, but agree this is sort of a valid argument. After all, if the iceberg strike took place off camera and a lot of the exterior shots of the ship were handled in an old school manner, the film wouldn't have been such a success. That said, you could pick apart so many films in a similar fashion just by removing one of the ingredients that were a part of their success.

[Knighty]

Cheesy is of course a valid argument(love is cheesy too though, ain't it? ), but I never understand people that say the movie mainly focused on Jack and Rose's story. I've always felt that Cameron did a brilliant job of creating two fictional characters and weaving their story into the real life events and people involved. If you think about it....Ismay, Andrews, Brown, Captain Smith, etc are all very important people within the film's plot. Sure, Jack and Rose are the center of it all but to create a captivating three hour story, you're going to need more than the people that were on the real ship. Otherwise it's basically the world's most expensive documentary. I would argue that it could still stand on its own and even has in built relationships already on the ship that were not shown in any film as far as I know. Such as kidnapping, affairs, heroics, panic and desperate people. It's a nice little microcosm ( think that's the word) of society and the world at that time. I do still have an issue with how some people are portrayed, I know The family of the officer shown shooting someone and committing suicide sued the production. In regards to the love story I have no problem with them in a film I just thought it wasn't particularly done well in this, no way is the film bloody awful though. And who the hell doesn't like Terminator 2 & True Lies?!!

[shootemindehead]

Me.

[AcesandEights]

And who the hell doesn't like Terminator 2 & True Lies?!! Me. Nah, I thought T2 was pretty good. Very cheesy and overdone, but it was probably one of the better films of that generation for its genre (big pecs, big guns, cheesy action-star driven shootem' up w/ a faux thinking man's angle...that's a genre, right?). True Lies? Meh...

[Knighty]

Can we all agree Avatar is a pile of shite though?

[shootemindehead]

Ugh...one of the reasons I HATE T2. Thumbs up!!! Feck off Arnie... Loved the first one though,