Good, but overrated

[DjfunkmasterG]

There's nothing logical about a horse. It gets spooked. It needs rest. It is wholly unpredictable. Given its reaction to seeing one or two zeds I would've ridden it right back out of town. A motorcycle doesn't throw you when it gets scared. It doesn't need sleep. And I maintain that you should never go into a situation where you make more noise defending yourself than you made getting there. Tallahasee got it right. "I miss my Escalade." As I'm watching it, yes, I'm thinking about it. I don't turn my brain off during survival horror. That's the fun for me, and perhaps at times a frustration. And there were a ton of places where I wasn't really comfortable with his choices, but I stayed along for the ride. The show, for the most part, kept me along for the ride. However, my gut told me the horse was a bad idea when he found it. I got more nervous when it got spooked at the first sign of zombies. And it turned out it was a bad idea when he got surrounded. How is that over-thinking? It's not like I actively took myself out of his shoes. I went kicking and screaming. I was really disappointed that it didn't work out better. And come on, the man didn't realize how much gas he needed to drive to Atlanta? I'm not asking for rocket scientist here. We don't know where in Georgia he was in relation to Atlanta, plus we also don't know how many other places he stopped to get fuel and how much was int he cruiser... These are the questions you have to consider. For all we know the cruiser only had a 1/4 tank and was probably one of the reasons it was left behind, like I said it is overthinking everything instead of just letting go and taking it for what it is... Was the horse a bad idea, maybe, but it was a form of transportation to keep from walking, maybe not the best choice but a horse is faster than your feet. A motorcycle would have created much more noise and if you're not an experienced Motorxyxle rider and you gun it too fast you can get thrown from a bike, I have seen it happen either way going into atlanta without a truck or car was probably a suicide mission.

[Mike70]

Definitely. The IDEA of Dawn is great. The execution.....not so much. I think that's what Mike was getting at. indeed it is. great story, great characters that the viewer actually gives a shit about but poor from the technical side. lack of money is no excuse. that card has been played way too often around here.

[AcesandEights]

There's nothing logical about a horse. It gets spooked. It needs rest. It is wholly unpredictable. Given its reaction to seeing one or two zeds I would've ridden it right back out of town. A motorcycle doesn't throw you when it gets scared. It doesn't need sleep. And I maintain that you should never go into a situation where you make more noise defending yourself than you made getting there. Tallahasee got it right. "I miss my Escalade." As I'm watching it, yes, I'm thinking about it. I don't turn my brain off during survival horror. That's the fun for me, and perhaps at times a frustration. And there were a ton of places where I wasn't really comfortable with his choices, but I stayed along for the ride. The show, for the most part, kept me along for the ride. However, my gut told me the horse was a bad idea when he found it. I got more nervous when it got spooked at the first sign of zombies. And it turned out it was a bad idea when he got surrounded. How is that over-thinking? It's not like I actively took myself out of his shoes. I went kicking and screaming. I was really disappointed that it didn't work out better. And come on, the man didn't realize how much gas he needed to drive to Atlanta? I'm not asking for rocket scientist here. Trin, I find it helps to look outside of one's self when picking apart character's decisions and focus on not only their immediate circumstances, but the mindset & ultimate goal of the character in question, as well as the outside factors affecting them (and those that might be, that we are not privy to, especially if we're going to get picayune about minor choices they make in the flow of the narrative). Doing so without a god's view of the zombocalypse that we have as safe spectators is, I feel, pretty necessary for addressing why things are done by people in such circumstances. You're always going to see some occasional examples of less than stellar tactical decisions by people in such a world. Seriously.

[MoonSylver]

indeed it is. great story, great characters that the viewer actually gives a shit about but poor from the technical side. lack of money is no excuse. that card has been played way too often around here. Meh, respectfully disagree Mike. I've always been amazed at HOW MUCH GAR was able to accomplish in that movie for SO LITTLE. I've always thought that movie would/should have cost WAY more to make than what it did, & if made by a studio, with union & guild members & all that I'm sure it would have. Now, having said that, I will also say that what I see in Dawn is "guerilla"/indie film making, the style of film making that produced NOTLD, where the kids said "let's put on a play!" and then DID IT, & also a director who is still learning, evolving, & growing & becoming more accomplished as he goes. Overall, I think the finished product is greater than the sum of its parts, & overcomes its technical flaws. Beyond all that, I'm not seeing the usefulness of all of the comparisons I'm seeing from EITHER side in all of this. It's not even apples & oranges, it's apples and hamburgers.

[Mike70]

Doing so without a god's view of the zombocalypse that we have as safe spectators is, I feel, pretty necessary for addressing why things are done by people in such circumstances. You're always going to see some occasional examples of less than stellar tactical decisions by people in such a world. Seriously. give this man an award! as you have pointed out, we have the leisure to sit back and examine what these characters do. we are not placed in the situation or faced with the kinds of choices that they have to make and make immediately, without the time for thought or reflection. that is how the real world works. many, many times people find themselves in situations where they have to do something and that damn quick. there is simply no time for logic, reason or thought. you must act. i have found myself in a couple of these situations (i know that the prof has too) where time for thought is a luxury that only the dead can afford. ---------- Post added at 01:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:33 PM ---------- Meh, respectfully disagree Mike. I've always been amazed at HOW MUCH GAR was able to accomplish in that movie for SO LITTLE. I've always thought that movie would/should have cost WAY more to make than what it did, & if made by a studio, with union & guild members & all that I'm sure it would have. Now, having said that, I will also say that what I see in Dawn is "guerilla"/indie film making, the style of film making that produced NOTLD, where the kids said "let's put on a play!" and then DID IT, & also a director who is still learning, evolving, & growing & becoming more accomplished as he goes. Overall, I think the finished product is greater than the sum of its parts, & overcomes its technical flaws. Beyond all that, I'm not seeing the usefulness of all of the comparisons I'm seeing from EITHER side in all of this. It's not even apples & oranges, it's apples and hamburgers. apologist! seriously though, i know a lot of people love these films. i hope it is clear that i am criticizing the film and not the people who love it. hades knows that i have a soft spot for some real cinematic turds.

[DubiousComforts]

What? Why would it make more sense to walk into a city rather than ride a much faster horse into the city? You do understand what "city limits" means? Ride the horse to the city limits (i.e. the open highway as we were shown where any threat will be clearly visible) and then traverse the streets by foot so that you're able to move more sleathily and under cover, if necessary. What doesn't make sense? If you lived in a world where the dead were walking and coming after you, your instinct would be to be overly cautious. I was just pointing out that it's unfair to say one cannot enjoy a single entry in a series without having seen the others. Nowhere did I say that people couldn't enjoy the first installment (I did so myself), so I guess we are in complete agreement. (and it only took several posts of completely skirting around the point to come to that conclusion, too) I really don't understand your reaction to peoples love for this. Is it anything to do with the documentary link in your sig? Dude, just get right to the point and say what you really mean. I guarantee it will be so much more interesting for everyone reading. I certainly can understand the criticisms that Jim cited though, he made many valid points. Don't bother to address the shortbus riders, Lee. They would be praising "Zombies For Dummies" as long as it didn't have Romero's name on it.

[mista_mo]

I sense some hostility here. Aces, you had better make anouther reasonable post, and try to mediate the conflict.

[bassman]

Nowhere did I say that people couldn't enjoy the first installment (I did so myself), so I guess we are in complete agreement. You never said we shouldn't review or grade the first installment because it's a series? That forming an opinion of the first episode was invalid because it's part of a serial? There is a difference between an open-ended film and a continuing serial. The pilot is an introduction and not a single aspect of the story has been wrapped up. I don't really understand how TWD can be compared to any standalone film when it's a serial and all of two days old. That's the point: if you consider the pilot as a standalone work simply due to length, it really falls flat. It's akin to comparing the first episode of The Sopranos to Goodfellas. You're smart enough to know that ESB is nothing like the pilot episode of TWD. Had ESB ended abruptly during Luke & Vader's duel leaving the fate of Leia and the droids on Cloud City in uncertainty, you

[AcesandEights]

I sense some hostility here. Aces, you had better make anouther reasonable post, and try to mediate the conflict. Okay... Ease up, we're all just looking for a place to post. How was that?

[Trin]

Trin, I find it helps to look outside of one's self when picking apart character's decisions and focus on not only their immediate circumstances, but the mindset & ultimate goal of the character in question, as well as the outside factors affecting them (and those that might be, that we are not privy to, especially if we're going to get picayune about minor choices they make in the flow of the narrative). Doing so without a god's view of the zombocalypse that we have as safe spectators is, I feel, pretty necessary for addressing why things are done by people in such circumstances. You're always going to see some occasional examples of less than stellar tactical decisions by people in such a world. Seriously. I totally agree. And that analysis works great when you're talking about him wandering the streets after leaving the hospital. Or approaching the guy on the sidewalk. Or any of a dozen other scenes where he's just beginning to understand the zombie world. Part of the suspense/horror was us as viewers knowing the world and cringing because he's exploring it not knowing. There was some serious nail biting in the first half hour. Good stuff. But by the time he's entering Atlanta he knows the score. Morgan has briefed him and he's seen enough of it himself. He knows what happens if he fires a gun. He knows there are way more of them around then it appears. He knew the horse is spooked by zombies. By that point he needs to act like he's got some sense if he wants to keep me along for the ride. I'm willing to believe that he had reasons for choosing the horse. Maybe he was looking long term at sustainable transportation? Or maybe he felt more comfortable on a horse (though he stated he was rusty)? Or maybe he felt that being silent was advantageous and just never considered that big bag of guns he was carrying as a liability? I was really not *that* checked out on the horse. I thought it was stupid, but you know, whatever. It wasn't until he got *suddenly* surrounded with no explanation that it irked me. At that point the whole thing struck me as plot contrivance, pure and simple. Like the writers patted themselves on the back for being so inventive as to use a horse cause no one has done that before. It's probably noteworthy that a comic adapted to a series doesn't have more nonsense like that, and far worse. The gas thing. Concoct all the scenarios you want, I just don't buy that he was out of options. He literally had a truck in his sight when he abandoned the police cruiser and he never considered checking to see if it had gas or not. Whether we knew how far Atlanta was or not, he knew. He could've found gas. Again, it's really a minor niggle in my mind. Just an annoying one. And as Dubious pointed out early on in this thread, it's not alone. Most are forgivable. Some just irk me. None of them will keep me from making Sunday nights into a TV viewing event!!

[DubiousComforts]

You never said we shouldn't review or grade the first installment because it's a series? That forming an opinion of the first episode was invalid because it's part of a serial? So you're going to continue to argue the point even though we are in complete agreement. Jeez, talk about If you are unable to comprehend the simple point being made in the comment that you've quote... "if you consider the pilot as a standalone work simply due to length, it really falls flat. It's akin to comparing the first episode of The Sopranos to Goodfellas" ...then I am unable to help you. Okay... Ease up, we're all just looking for a place to post. How was that? Not really, Aces. We were having a great discussion in this thread until the usual suspects showed up to ruin it. But because you asked nicely, I'll ease up. Aces for moderator!

[bassman]

We may be in agreement that the first episode is good, but the quotes speak for themselves. And good idea....we're unable to help each other. Moving on.

[mista_mo]

Conflict resolved, great job Aces! New topic for discussion is as follows. Sometimes I have noticed that Rick has a hat on (some form of cop/cowboy hat amalgamation) but sometimes HE DON'T! Talk about continuity errors.

[DubiousComforts]

Sometimes I have noticed that Rick has a hat on (some form of cop/cowboy hat amalgamation) but sometimes HE DON'T! Talk about continuity errors. Pretty sharp eyesight on display here.

[AcesandEights]

Again, it's really a minor niggle in my mind. Just an annoying one. And as Dubious pointed out early on in this thread, it's not alone. Most are forgivable. Some just irk me. None of them will keep me from making Sunday nights into a TV viewing event!! Cool in my book. I'm just glad we have more zombie material to talk about and debate, in general! It's just, for me, I haven't seen much that has detracted from the show, it's just more along the lines of: "what would I do if..." sort of scenarios. I guess when the conversation starts to change from that to character X did verb A when he should have done verb B, that's where where I start to question things.