A 3rd of those who choose to challenge anti-social behaviour are attacked/threatened

[Neil]

It's a difficult choice... Act or don't act... A friend at work was driving slowly through a village center and saw a group of youths kick out at a cyclist in front of him. The cyclist veered across the road, and my friend slowed down... As he drove by the youths he got a big kick in the door of his car leaving a sizable dent! Stop and challenge? With your wife/baby in the car? Or drive off? He drove off... A recent case in the UK was where a guy was stabbed on a bus... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7098588.stm

[Khardis]

This is why Britain needs to repeal the gun ban... if I saw a group of "youths" beating up someone I would tell them to stop, if there was only 1 or 2 I would kick their asses, if there was 3 or more i would threaten them then pull my gun and threaten them. I read a story of a guy who shot the ex husband of a woman who was beating her in a parking lot of a Walmart and he was trying to kill her (they had been divorced and she was with someone else so he was pissed). I would do something similar.

[Tricky]

I was driving through hessle near hull on an urban dual carriageway on sunday,and saw a group of kids at the side of the road but they werent waiting to cross or anything,just as i was getting near them,one of them just walked out in front of me and stopped on purpose!i slammed all on,and luckily i have ABS on my new car or i'd have skidded straight into him!i put my window down and shouted "get out of the road you stupid bastard!",he just looked at me and sneered "you cant f**king make me",he was only about 11 years old!i got that massive rising anger/adrenaline feeling in my chest and if i had less self control would have got out of the car & lamped him one,but i just put the car back in gear,swerved round him & drove off.Thats the attitude of kids these days though,this country is going to be a frightening place in a decades time when all these little ****s get to be adults...

[Neil]

I was driving through hessle near hull on an urban dual carriageway on sunday,and saw a group of kids at the side of the road but they werent waiting to cross or anything,just as i was getting near them,one of them just walked out in front of me and stopped on purpose!i slammed all on,and luckily i have ABS on my new car or i'd have skidded straight into him!i put my window down and shouted "get out of the road you stupid bastard!",he just looked at me and sneered "you cant f**king make me",he was only about 11 years old!i got that massive rising anger/adrenaline feeling in my chest and if i had less self control would have got out of the car & lamped him one,but i just put the car back in gear,swerved round him & drove off.Thats the attitude of kids these days though,this country is going to be a frightening place in a decades time when all these little ****s get to be adults... If I was in my car I would have done the same (nothing)... If I was in my GFs car (and 'seeing red') I would have driven by him slowly and shoved my drivers door open on him... This is why Britain needs to repeal the gun ban... if I saw a group of "youths" beating up someone I would tell them to stop, if there was only 1 or 2 I would kick their asses, if there was 3 or more i would threaten them then pull my gun and threaten them. I read a story of a guy who shot the ex husband of a woman who was beating her in a parking lot of a Walmart and he was trying to kill her (they had been divorced and she was with someone else so he was pissed). I would do something similar. I hear what you're saying, but unfortunately it means the scum bags get guns as well, and these are the people who care/consider even less about the outcome of violence as it is!

[Khardis]

I was driving through hessle near hull on an urban dual carriageway on sunday,and saw a group of kids at the side of the road but they werent waiting to cross or anything,just as i was getting near them,one of them just walked out in front of me and stopped on purpose!i slammed all on,and luckily i have ABS on my new car or i'd have skidded straight into him!i put my window down and shouted "get out of the road you stupid bastard!",he just looked at me and sneered "you cant f**king make me",he was only about 11 years old!i got that massive rising anger/adrenaline feeling in my chest and if i had less self control would have got out of the car & lamped him one,but i just put the car back in gear,swerved round him & drove off.Thats the attitude of kids these days though,this country is going to be a frightening place in a decades time when all these little ****s get to be adults... Its weird how similar this is all becoming to A Clockwork Orange. They had the same problem in the novel, only the only way to fix it wasnt pretty, they had to take away more and more freedom to accomplish it. Which is absurd, if they just gave people more freedom, like the freedom to carry guns legally this wouldn't be such a big issue.An armed society is a polite society.

[Neil]

Its weird how similar this is all becoming to A Clockwork Orange. They had the same problem in the novel, only the only way to fix it wasnt pretty, they had to take away more and more freedom to accomplish it. Which is absurd, if they just gave people more freedom, like the freedom to carry guns legally this wouldn't be such a big issue.An armed society is a polite society. There's middle ground... (I hope)

[Khardis]

If I was in my car I would have done the same (nothing)... If I was in my GFs car (and 'seeing red') I would have driven by him slowly and shoved my drivers door open on him... I hear what you're saying, but unfortunately it means the scum bags get guns as well, and these are the people who care/consider even less about the outcome of violence as it is! Incorrect, the scum bags don't follow the law, they have guns already if they really want them. The gun ban was meant to do 1 thing, disarm people like me and you who could: A: stand up for our rights from the government B: fight back against crime. the government doesn't like that. There's middle ground... (I hope) Well I believe the people of Britain need to take back their freedoms before things will get better. Including their right to bare arms, sword whatever etc.

[Tricky]

Well I believe the people of Britain need to take back their freedoms before things will get better. Including their right to bare arms, sword whatever etc. Unfortunately now this country has been handed over to the EU on a plate,we only stand to lose more freedoms,we certainly wont gain any

[Neil]

Incorrect, the scum bags don't follow the law, they have guns already if they really want them. The gun ban was meant to do 1 thing, disarm people like me and you who could: A: stand up for our rights from the government B: fight back against crime. the government doesn't like that. Well I believe the people of Britain need to take back their freedoms before things will get better. Including their right to bare arms, sword whatever etc. This is a common misnomer IMHO... Yes of course anyone who want to get a gun, with enough effort could. But your average idiot on the street wouldn't have a clue where to get one (in the UK), yet alone have the inclination to get one. I for one feel MUCH safer knowing that the general idiot out there is almost certainly not armed... I also have issues with the idea gun = instant security:- 1) Do you have your gun all the time? - What if you're mugged in town? 2) Do you have it ready drawn all the time? - What if you're mugged in town at gunpoint? 3) Does it make you safer? - If a wannabe thief/crook suspects you may be armed, is he likely to wait to find out, or shoot first? Yes there are countless arguments for and against gun ownership. Personally I feel most of the good arguments (in the UK) are against...

[Khardis]

This is a common misnomer IMHO... Yes of course anyone who want to get a gun, with enough effort could. But your average idiot on the street wouldn't have a clue where to get one (in the UK), yet alone have the inclination to get one. I for one feel MUCH safer knowing that the general idiot out there is almost certainly not armed... I also have issues with the idea gun = instant security:- 1) Do you have your gun all the time? - What if you're mugged in town? 2) Do you have it ready drawn all the time? - What if you're mugged in town at gunpoint? 3) Does it make you safer? - If a wannabe thief/crook suspects you may be armed, is he likely to wait to find out, or shoot first? Yes there are countless arguments for and against gun ownership. Personally I feel most of the good arguments (in the UK) are against... I dont know how you can feel safger knowing guns are not legal.. that would terrify me. If someone wants a gun they will get one. This leaves only you unarmed. as per your questions... well 1.Yes I have my gun or one of them on me at all times. I wouldn't be mugged because the mugger would be dead before he got his hands on my wallet. 2. My gun is in a quick holster, locked and loaded with the safety off when I am walking around town, but thats not the extent of my security, I also have a general idea of where and how people get and do muggings, I wouldnt get caught by someone to mug me with a gun because I wouldnt put myself in that situation or give them a chance. Unless they are willing to mug me in broad daylight with people all around us. In which case they are going to be aught anyway. 3. Yes it makes me safer, the way criminals think isn't, does he have a gun i better shoot 1st etc. Most criminals look for soft targets, if they see someone who is possibly armed they avoid them and instead look to mug someone who is unarmed. IE they will rob old ladies or women, or men who are against guns or people who hang out in "gun free zones". PLus theres the whole freedom issue. I don't see how people can complain about feral youths and muggings (which have skyrocketed since banning guns in England) while denying the most effective way to defend yourselves. The only way to do it in the way you want to is to strip MORE freedom away. IE your swords. I dont understand how you can be upset about that, but be happy with gun bannings... its illogical.

[Neil]

I dont know how you can feel safger knowing guns are not legal.. that would terrify me. If someone wants a gun they will get one. This leaves only you unarmed. as per your questions... well 1.Yes I have my gun or one of them on me at all times. I wouldn't be mugged because the mugger would be dead before he got his hands on my wallet. 2. My gun is in a quick holster, locked and loaded with the safety off when I am walking around town, but thats not the extent of my security, I also have a general idea of where and how people get and do muggings, I wouldnt get caught by someone to mug me with a gun because I wouldnt put myself in that situation or give them a chance. Unless they are willing to mug me in broad daylight with people all around us. In which case they are going to be aught anyway. 3. Yes it makes me safer, the way criminals think isn't, does he have a gun i better shoot 1st etc. Most criminals look for soft targets, if they see someone who is possibly armed they avoid them and instead look to mug someone who is unarmed. IE they will rob old ladies or women, or men who are against guns or people who hang out in "gun free zones". PLus theres the whole freedom issue. I don't see how people can complain about feral youths and muggings (which have skyrocketed since banning guns in England) while denying the most effective way to defend yourselves. The only way to do it in the way you want to is to strip MORE freedom away. IE your swords. I dont understand how you can be upset about that, but be happy with gun bannings... its illogical. I can fully understand how a gun makes you feel safer... Indeed I would feel safer if I had one, in many ways... HOWEVER, as things stand in the UK, your average numpty lout, or idiot with no compassion or common sense, will NOT have a gun.... Open up gun ownership and the very first people to get them will be the very last people you want to have them. Numpty louts, idiots with no compassion or common sense, and any old wannabe Clint Eastwoods. Within months the gun crime rate in the country would rocket and we'd have potentially hundred more gun related deaths each month, most likely carried out by the people you least want to have weapons... Again, I fully understand how carrying a gun can help with many aspects of the 'law', but I feel that I'm willing to sacrifice those for the greater good. We'll just have to agree to disagree... ps: Sometimes I fully agree with your opinion on legalising guns, but most of the time I don't

[Khardis]

See Neil, thats the thing. Lumpy louts etc who you fear don't buy guns from gun shops. The people you dont want to buy guns buy guns on the black market because they cant be traced. Whereas people who buy guns from gunstores will usually have a paper trail leading right to them, making committing crimes with that gun a ridiculous mistake since forensics can trace guns right to whoever purchased it and from where. As a legal gun owner, my fingerprints are on file as is my mental competency and criminal records etc. (i have none but its on file and was researched before i was given my permit). When I buy a gun legally they know who I am, and the gun is registered to me. If I shoot someone with my gun I better have a damned good reason for it, otherwise the crushers will put me away.

[Neil]

See Neil, thats the thing. Lumpy louts etc who you fear don't buy guns from gun shops. The people you dont want to buy guns buy guns on the black market because they cant be traced. Whereas people who buy guns from gunstores will usually have a paper trail leading right to them, making committing crimes with that gun a ridiculous mistake since forensics can trace guns right to whoever purchased it and from where. As a legal gun owner, my fingerprints are on file as is my mental competency and criminal records etc. (i have none but its on file and was researched before i was given my permit). When I buy a gun legally they know who I am, and the gun is registered to me. If I shoot someone with my gun I better have a damned good reason for it, otherwise the crushers will put me away. Understood! But still 20,000-30,000 'damn good reasons' happen each year in the US don't they?

[kortick]

its funny but you are both right khardis is right in the fact that guns are easy to get for criminals making them more dangerous but if they find out you are packing they think twice about bothering you Neil is right about the huge amount of gun deaths that occur in the US as opposed to the UK but if you want to protect yourself, i mean truly protect yourself a gun will do that the only thing is you never pull a gun on someone unless you mean to shoot them, you dont flash it and i dont beleive in shooting to incapacitate you shoot to kill cuz if someone shot me and i lived you bet they would be dead meat once i found them but in the situations you described neil you did the right thing if your wife and kid was with you and rich as annoying as 11 year olds can be we cant beat them all up, we would have time to do nothing else but that. just think tho, if he pulls that stunt regularly the odds of someone not stopping increase greatly. there has to be a middle ground, in the uk there should be access to guns for law abiding citizens to protect themselves, thier homes and thier families from the growing youth violence and such and in america, they have to find a way of stopping the ease in which to buy a gun illegally. I could go out and buy any type gun right up to millitary grade right now if i wanted to. full auto that should not be.

[Neil]

there has to be a middle ground, in the uk there should be access to guns for law abiding citizens to protect themselves, thier homes and thier families from the growing youth violence and such and in america. Everyone is law abiding until they break the law... Increasing the number of guns will almost certainly increase gun related deaths. A fierce argument is easy to resolve if all it means is a pull of a trigger... Seriously... I feel safer knowing guns are hard to get, rather than me owning one along with nutters!