TWD 2x13 "Beside The Dying Fire" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[kidgloves]

Can I just say that Andrew Lincoln was outstanding in this episode. I'm still not 100% convinced about him yet even if he is a fellow Brit. There's something i don't like about the way he's chosen to move his head when playing Rick. Bothers me for some reason. The scene with Lori where Rick tells her how he killed Shane and Carl shot zombie Shane was excellent. Watch Sarah Wayne Callies reactions as the story unfolds. Lincolns doing the decent into slight madness superbly. Wheres Wyld btw? He hasn't stopped watching because Shane died has he?

[Neil]

Neil has it right guys. It fundementally changes things when the continuity error in question is the difference between life and death. It's really simple. If herschel stops and reloads for the amount of times he fired his weapon, With the sheer number and proximity of the walkers, making the stand he did, he's dead, end of story. So by all rights he shouldn't be alive so yeah that's gonna bother me. Now what i am willing to suspend my disbelief for: Let's not forget the fact that the weapon (shotgun no less) had no recoil and he was hitting everything in the head. It's a stretch but i'll roll with it. Questioning a weapons kick and a persons aim is subjective. Maybe herchel was in nam. Perhaps, unbeknownst to everyone he's as stong as a bear and the weapon just doesn't kick cause he's that strong. Fine. But you can't shoot a shotgun without shells in it. On that subject it has been said that he fired 8 shots in one frame and seven in another. Do you have any idea how long it takes to manually load seven shells? 30 seconds? He would have been overun, easily And nitpicking is what we do here isn't it? If we can criticize GAr's continuity errors ad nauseum (And yes he's still the master) i don't think kirkman is above a good old fashioned nitpicking either. And that's a gun illiterate Brit picking that issue up, so God knows what you gun psycho Americans made of it

[bassman]

Wheres Wyld btw? He hasn't stopped watching because Shane died has he? He's probably still typing up his opinions on the episode. Hasn't stopped since it aired last Sunday.....

[Sammich]

Then you have to add in scenes of him preparing the shotguns , explaining they are all loaded, picking each one up after another has gone empty Instead you have him shooting round after round like he's discovered an unlimited ammo cheat and annoy probably 1% of an audience but get to show two zombies having their heads blown off. Everyone's a winner Based upon the number of zombie apocalypse threads I have seen in gun and prepper related forums long before and since the start of the series, I think the number is significantly higher than 1%, maybe 15-20%. I timed myself loadiing 7 rounds into a 12 ga and it took about from 10-12 seconds and this was from shell holders so they could be easily grabbed base first. Retrieving shells just thrown into a pocket would take much longer as inevitably it would take additional time to correctly orient them before feeding into the magazine. The amount of time would go up during a stress situtation with fumbling and even dropping shells on the ground. The Herschel scene could have been pulled off realistically if he had one of his daughters reloading a gun as he shot the other, similar to what is shown in the old westerns.

[ProfessorChaos]

He's probably still typing up his opinions on the episode. Hasn't stopped since it aired last Sunday..... damn, you owe me a new keyboard. his last post seemed to suggest he was upset with another member over their differences of opinion...dude needs to lighten up and take things a little less personally.

[Knighty]

I guess old man Herschel is just better at reloading then you And the 1% was just an example , whatever the amount of people that notice which may be significant the actual percentage of people who are bothered By it would be low. Certainly if that put anyone off watching anymore then I hope they never see an action film . With season 3 speculation I do wonder if it will just be following Rick's group, Mazzara has hinted in a few interviews that Michonne might not be directly with the group but on the outskirts and that it won't just be The groups story anymore. Wondering if they will put a Lost like turnaround and show the Governor's story.

[Neil]

The Herschel scene could have been pulled off realistically if he had one of his daughters reloading a gun as he shot the other, similar to what is shown in the old westerns. Yep, or a bag of pre-loaded weapons... Either would add a bit more depth and logic to the scene, which would only improve it!

[MinionZombie]

Brilliant gentlemen. So the next time there are running zombies on screen just remember that they're just speeding things along so we can get to the really important stuff... My reason for not showing a load of reloading is simple - it's boring to show it, there's not enough time in the episode to cram it in there, you know he has to reload at some point, so why is it truly, desperately necessary to show it all the time? The way some people are getting into a fit is as if this is the first time it's happened on screen. They have to get off the farm and down the road and continue driving before they run out of petrol, but do we see every goddamned mile of their journey? No, because it'd be boring ... it's unrealistic to not show every second of a journey! ... ... /sarcasm. Time and actions are condensed in television and film, it's just a fact. As for "having a chat", I never once saw Hershel having a nice gentle sit down with a cup of tea to talk about what the neighbours are up to next door. ... And running 'MTV zombies' can sod off. I like the odd flick that has runners in it, but I'd much prefer they weren't running at all. Shambling, or indeed 'Hinzman hobbling', makes more sense for the mythical biology of a zombie - as the makers have gone into thoughts about how a zombie can tear open a stomach (they have bony fingers and long nails due to decomposition), so too they'd come to rest on shambling makes more sense that running ... shambling doesn't require anywhere near the body and limb coordination of running, and for a zombie that can't even talk or perform basic tasks, how are they going to run? They even removed the zombie actor's breath because in the TWD world the zombies don't breathe (but this does issue the question of the whole 'smell' thing from last season) ... with a weakened body structure, running would do far more damage than walking/shambling/hobbling (it's even the case with human beings). However all that isn't necessary to show on-screen, it's background thought that went into justifying the actions of the writers and filmmakers, we don't need to sit down for a lecture on-screen to explain all that, and likewise we don't need to stop the action for a plodding 10 second gap to show Hershel load EVERY. SINGLE. SHELL. INTO. HIS. SHOTGUN. just so a handful of nitpickers won't bang on endlessly about it at the expense of the rest of what happened in the episode. /rant ... On another - far more interesting topic - yes, Andrew Lincoln is kicking major arse with his performance. I don't quite know what kidgloves is meaning about 'the way he turns his head as Rick' ... but anyway, I think Lincoln is doing a spiffing job.

[Andy]

To be honest, ive stayed out of this herschel/shotgun/reloading argument becuase quite frankly, its stupid. When i watched the scene, Herschel fires 3 or 4 shots in succession then it cuts to something else, then back to herschel who fires off another 3 or 4 rounds. I took it he was reloading between scenes becuase like MZ has said, it would be BORING to show it and it would disrupt the flow of the action and tension of the farm scene. The fact that you guys are picking this up and trying to say "he should have reloaded becuase i thought he had unlimited ammo" is just plain retarded. I havnt seen any of the characters go for a shit on screen but i dont scream and complain that they have superhuman bowels. Come on guys, seriously.

[Ghost Of War]

I havnt seen any of the characters go for a shit on screen but i dont scream and complain that they have superhuman bowels. Come on guys, seriously. Brilliant. And 100% agreed. I know you guys like to nitpick, but really, what do you want, kind of subtitles along the bottom of the screen saying "while Hershel is off screen, he's reloading his gun"?

[Knighty]

I love the subtitles idea! "Carol is running to the barn and looking scared" Especially good for T-Dog since we rarely see him "T-Dog is day dreaming about surfing in the East Coast, he's had a busy day of planting fence posts. He might go say hi to Rick then have a cup of tea. T-Dog lives an exciting life"

[Neil]

it would disrupt the flow of the action and tension of the farm scene. I assume the tension being the wall of walking dead held at bay by the aforementioned limitless ammo (super quick reload?) shotgun? That's tension alright! Dozen's of walking dead coming towards you, and somehow a single shotgun can hold them all at bay? To use your insightful phrase, it's "just plain retarded" If he'd stopped every half dozen shots to reload, he'd be dead... But that didn't happen? Why? How? Come on guys, seriously. But you seem to be missing the point. A number of people, myself included, noticed this scene as a reality breaker. We found it disruptive and it tore the viewer away from the show as it seemed to be 'cheating'. How difficult would it have been to do either of the suggestions we covered about? eg:- - We see Hershal with a bag of guns that he's working his way through? - This explains the ability to mow down so many walkers. It also adds depth to the story line showing these people take their lives seriously and have seemingly prepared for a battle. Yes, of course it's a minor aspect, but none-the-less, we cannot deny this scene made a few folks roll their eyes. Moreover, it wasn't necessary as a tiny bit of forethought could have resulted in a more interesting, and more inportantly, more believable scene. It was an unnecessarily poor bit of writing/direction IMHO, that could have so easily have been tidied up. ...and what's the problem with pointing this out and discussing it? I havnt seen any of the characters go for a shit on screen but i dont scream and complain that they have superhuman bowels. ...and if you saw Hershal walking into a bathroom, close the door, only to immediately re-open it just a second later proclaiming, "Christ that was a good big shit", would you raise your eyebrows at how he managed to do it so fast? Maybe he also managed to reload his shotgun while he was in there too!?

[LouCipherr]

My reason for not showing a load of reloading is simple - it's boring to show it, there's not enough time in the episode to cram it in there, you know he has to reload at some point, so why is it truly, desperately necessary to show it all the time? It's pretty simple (remember, this has been a pet peeve of mine long before TWD) - when I see someone unload 10 rounds from a 6-round revolver, or I see someone take 30 shots from a shotgun without reloading, I suddenly am taken out of the moment because I'm sitting here thinking, "ok, wtf, man? 30 shots and no reload? no grabbing a new weapon?" As Neil suggested, the simple act of dropping one shotgun and picking up another (takes what, less than 2 seconds of screen time?) would've been more than enough to make it believable and would not have interrupted the 'flow' of the scene - but that didn't happen. I havnt seen any of the characters go for a shit on screen Me either, however... I did see and hear Daryl tell Rick he had to take a piss in one of the episodes, so The idea it would be "boring" to show Herschel reloading - well, there's a lot more even more boring shit shown in TWD that took up WAY more time (y'know, like having to spend half the goddamn second season looking for some stupid little girl that wandered off?) so I don't think showing Herschel reloading or picking up a different gun for 2 seconds would really have that much of a impact. It would, however, have completely eliminated a lot of questions about it. And as Neil has pointed out - a lot of people have noticed this scene and questioned it. Not many people have questioned why no one has not taken a shit, however, so I guess I digress...

[sandrock74]

Forget the reloading of guns! For me, the thing that I can't believe they never show is everyone going to the bathroom. I mean, seriously, am I to believe that NONE of the survivors ever has to pee or poop??

[Neil]

Forget the reloading of guns! For me, the thing that I can't believe they never show is everyone going to the bathroom. I mean, seriously, am I to believe that NONE of the survivors ever has to pee or poop?? The issue isn't really if they don't show them doing something, it's when they do show them doing something, but it's too implausible or impossible