Living Dead Movie Timeline?

[Philly_SWAT]

All the "depleted supplies" along a hurricane route happen due to masses of people passing through, not due to the people who live there. Huh?? I am not sure what you mean here. There were no people "passing through" my county after the hurricanes. Only residents were here. That was my point. No food and fuel trucks were passing through either, that is why there was such a shortage after only a week. There was nobody "passing through" their little area. The fences went up at the first sign of outbreak, and that was it. It can be no other way. Any waiting at all, and it would be utterly impossible to accomplish what they did, because they'd have already been overrun. That is true. However, I say this is more of a movie flaw. The entire story of the movie would have to be redone if the Green wasnt blocked off. I doubt people would be so quick to put up fences. Look how long people have been bitching about fences along our SOuthern border. There are numerous examples in GAR movies where he did not think out long term logic of a premise, it was just put in. IN fact, that is true of many movies, not just GAR movies. The area they have is over 70 blocks. Inside are over 60 restaurants, a dozen small markets, and not one, not two, but four supermarkets. That's just on the inside. And once they do venture beyond the wire, they have to raid the entire city of Pittsburgh first, before they can even think of going into surrounding towns. I don't know how many supermarkets are inside the entirety of the city, because I stopped counting at 100. Along with literally hundreds of restaurants, probably a thousand convenience stores, and so on. They were pretty well set for quite some time. How long do you think perishable foods last in a supermarket? And how long do you think supplies last in supermarkets without trucks coming in mulitple times a week to replenish the shelves? Now, the Day issue.... There is no chance of it happening years upon years into the outbreak. They have VERY limited resources. The entire thing was "thrown together in a matter of days". In other words, no supplying the site beforehand. I doubt 5 years' worth of food (not to mention booze) was just lying around. It was a derelict equipment facility, not a biodome. It would be filled with machinery and non-consumables, not outfitted for long-term, unresupplied habitation. The "scientific" part of the mission was thrown together in a matter of days, obviously not the facility itself. What good would it be to have an underground facility that was not well stocked except at the last second in a time of emergency? Also, they did have a chopper to go get more supplies in a relatively safe manner. And then there's the fuel issue. They run the helicopter, and ALL power off their tank of fuel. No way that's lasting very long. So you dont think they would get fuel at other locations as the flew around for 100 miles in each direction? And do we really think they'd only reach 100 miles out after 5 years? And only be looking for survivors? They'd be looking for anything they could scavenge at that point (just like our friends at Fiddler's Green). How far away from the only place you knew for sure was safe would you venture, regardless of the timeframe? Actually, do you really think they'd even look for survivors at that point? No way. They're not dumb enough to think that somebody would just be waiting in the middle of Main Street after years on end of zombie mayhem. I assume that is why they were broadcasting on the radio and using a megaphone, to communicate with those smarter than to wait in the middle of the street... And do you think Sarah wouldn't have already been raped a few hundred times by then? Realistically, hell no. As the only female, she'd be targeted within months most likely, and the people in that underground hell would resemble humans in no kind of way after 5 years. You saw how fast they imploded in a 4-day span. Yet, you think they co-existed for years prior to this? Not a chance. I guess the answer to this question depends upon the upbringing and the moral standards of those involved. I guess you think that after a few months with no sex, most men would take to raping the first woman they can find. If that is the case, then I guess maybe mankind doesnt deserve to survive. There's no way they could make it down in the silo for five years, what the hell could possibly keep them going that long? At least the Green' had drugs, hookers, and jobs to occupy the residents. LOL! Day cannot be over a year. As others have mentioned the consumables alone would not last that long. In addition to gasoline, food, and booze you have to consider batteries for flashlights, medical supplies, light bulbs etc. Heck, there were working lights in the furthest reaches of the tunnels where no human had been since the base was established. Would have been boring scenes in a movie had there been no light for the viewer to see what was happening. I really like the point made regarding them searching for survivors. Why would they do that for 3+ years? They'd only do that for a short time and only within a short window after losing contact with other survivors/government. Better hope you are never a survivor who has not been found within a short window.... I also will reiterate that the researchers would NOT be still defining the problem after 3 years. Sarah says that Dr. Logan is still proving theories they put forth months ago. That implies they've been there months, not years. Can we really believe that it took Logan 3+ years to come up with the research that they don't take nourishment from their food? So the theories that were put forth months ago were put forth immediately after entering the complex? And no, we cant take it took Logan 3+ years to come up with that, only he never discussed it with Sarah. We see that all 3 scientists are working on there own. And there's no way I see the military sitting around for 3+ years prior to the inevitable "what are you doing with my time" speech. Not happening. They DO have options. They can stop helping the researchers and sit tight. They can go "on the road" and attempt to reach a former military base. I just don't see them regularly losing men for 3 solid years without putting their collective foot down. 6 or 8 months, yes, but not 3 years. We have been regularly losing men in Iraq for over FIVE years now.... As for Land - The list of reasons why this setting cannot exist in under a year is lengthy. The entire attitude of the populace is that the short term crisis is over and they've settled into a routine. Short term crisis? Yeah, the dead have returned to life and want to eat the living, there is no way to solve the problem...no biggie....pass me a donut.... The fact that they've re-established some sort of life that mimics their former society is evidence of a later time period, not an earlier one. There is no way that when the zombie apocalypse struck they just put up some fences and went about their business. The fact that they have re-established a currency and some semblance of their former society means they overcame the initial hurdles of the zombie world and built those things back up. Perhaps you have a much brighter outlook on things than I do. To me, if a mjor disaster happened, like say, the dead returning to life and wanting to eat the living, with no end in sight, I would think that the further away you get from the start of that, the worse things would be, not that things would be bright and rosy later on, but bad right after. The zombies alone are evidence that Day precedes Land. In Day the zombies are still lined up outside the gates trying to get in. In Land "they hardly come around anymore." There were not as many zombies outside the walls in Land as there were in Dawn outside the mall or Night outside the farm house. They had to drive several dozen miles to find any concentration of zombies. That kind of space doesn't get cleaned out of zombies (and zombie corpses) in a major metropolitan area in just a few months. The fences in Day were not electrified, and they were on an Island, so it would be harder for the zombies to wander off when they saw they couldnt get in. Plus, there would be nothing better for them to do. As we see in both Land and Day, zombies can learn with time, so in Land they learned that when the approached the fence, they would catfh fire and their heads would explode, so they would decide to look elsewhere for food. Also, if my arguments regarding Sarah and John's attitudes have no bearing on the passage of time, then neither do observations about the lax attitudes of the military or the general feeling of hopelessness of Day. Not true. Someone stubborn, especially a woman , could hold onto denial for decades, and a mellow Jamaican could come to accept a new reality in short order. Their attitudes could be days in, months in, years in. I have never been in the military, maybe someone who has could comment on how long into a problem it would take for smoking a joint in front of military officers in a meeting to be considered acceptable.

[EvilNed]

I disagree. GAR himself has said the Land was about "ignoring" the problem, not coming to grips with it. We saw in Night90 that in the period of the initial outbreak, they were using the zombies for sport and novelty. In Dawn, the biker gang was hitting them in the face with pies. This fact in Land points to it being early in the outbreak, not later. Actually, it's not a fact. It's a theory. And it doesn't point to anything, except that some people researched the problem and some decided to live around it. What IS a fact is that Land is at least 3 years from the outbreak. The question is where to place Day. It seems to me, in Day, that they hadn't gotten that far in their search for survivors. So I rule out anything later than 1 year. Better hope you are never a survivor who has not been found within a short window.... Just to point out, it's standard procedure to stop looking for someone MIA or generally just missing, after a certain amount of time. If they hadn't found any survivors by 3+ years, they would definetly have diverted their resources to something more useful.

[jim102016]

Huh?? I am not sure what you mean here. There were no people "passing through" my county after the hurricanes. Only residents were here. That was my point. No food and fuel trucks were passing through either, that is why there was such a shortage after only a week. That is true. However, I say this is more of a movie flaw. The entire story of the movie would have to be redone if the Green wasnt blocked off. I doubt people would be so quick to put up fences. Look how long people have been bitching about fences along our SOuthern border. There are numerous examples in GAR movies where he did not think out long term logic of a premise, it was just put in. IN fact, that is true of many movies, not just GAR movies. How long do you think perishable foods last in a supermarket? And how long do you think supplies last in supermarkets without trucks coming in mulitple times a week to replenish the shelves? The "scientific" part of the mission was thrown together in a matter of days, obviously not the facility itself. What good would it be to have an underground facility that was not well stocked except at the last second in a time of emergency? Also, they did have a chopper to go get more supplies in a relatively safe manner. So you dont think they would get fuel at other locations as the flew around for 100 miles in each direction? How far away from the only place you knew for sure was safe would you venture, regardless of the timeframe? I assume that is why they were broadcasting on the radio and using a megaphone, to communicate with those smarter than to wait in the middle of the street... I guess the answer to this question depends upon the upbringing and the moral standards of those involved. I guess you think that after a few months with no sex, most men would take to raping the first woman they can find. If that is the case, then I guess maybe mankind doesnt deserve to survive. LOL! Would have been boring scenes in a movie had there been no light for the viewer to see what was happening. Better hope you are never a survivor who has not been found within a short window.... So the theories that were put forth months ago were put forth immediately after entering the complex? And no, we cant take it took Logan 3+ years to come up with that, only he never discussed it with Sarah. We see that all 3 scientists are working on there own. We have been regularly losing men in Iraq for over FIVE years now.... Short term crisis? Yeah, the dead have returned to life and want to eat the living, there is no way to solve the problem...no biggie....pass me a donut.... Perhaps you have a much brighter outlook on things than I do. To me, if a mjor disaster happened, like say, the dead returning to life and wanting to eat the living, with no end in sight, I would think that the further away you get from the start of that, the worse things would be, not that things would be bright and rosy later on, but bad right after. The fences in Day were not electrified, and they were on an Island, so it would be harder for the zombies to wander off when they saw they couldnt get in. Plus, there would be nothing better for them to do. As we see in both Land and Day, zombies can learn with time, so in Land they learned that when the approached the fence, they would catfh fire and their heads would explode, so they would decide to look elsewhere for food. Not true. Someone stubborn, especially a woman , could hold onto denial for decades, and a mellow Jamaican could come to accept a new reality in short order. Their attitudes could be days in, months in, years in. I have never been in the military, maybe someone who has could comment on how long into a problem it would take for smoking a joint in front of military officers in a meeting to be considered acceptable. Philly, glad to see you back in rare form! You and Trin have presented some interesting information. Although I have to agree more with Trin, you have presented some interesting rebuffs. I went through a hurricane in 05' in Mississippi and I can't imagine something like that on a nation-wide scale. I think Trin means outside help when he says "passing people." The national guard was all over my area within days, as were police from all over the U.S. There was a blockade in front of my house and a curfew to cut down on looting. But, as with your situation, supplies such as gasoline were in short supply for a while and people resorted to pulling pistols on one another while in long lines. While the mission was put together in a matter of days, I have to wonder about the prep time for the silo. Who built the corral, and who stocked it with dead bodies wearing collars? Perhaps Rhodes lost his first four men (not counting Major Cooper who died later) in this initial operation? Or maybe Washington sent an advanced team into the silo to get it up and running before the operation was "put together in a matter of days"? Sarah was the scapegoat for the hatred the soldiers felt toward the whole scientific team and it's "worthless mission". She wouldn't have been raped because they were horny, she would have been raped because they were angry. Losing men in Iraq is a bad comparison to Rhodes losing five men in a cave while the world falls apart above. I was in the service, and I don't think there's any way to find out how long it'd take the military to break down to where the enlisted men would be allowed to smoke grass during meetings. I imagine if I was an officer in charge of men who had witnessed their wives and family members come back to life and eat each other as the whole world fell apart, I'd probably have to take drastic measures to keep them going on the few brain cells that were left. That, or you'd have an entire until full of people acting like Miguel. In reality, I don't think you'd get months out of anyone, let alone years. I think suicide woudl be a huge factor. No way in hell they'd been down in that cave more than a few months. When did we agree that the complex in Day' was situated on an island?

[Philly_SWAT]

Philly, glad to see you back in rare form! Thanks! You and Trin have presented some interesting information. Although I have to agree more with Trin, you have presented some interesting rebuffs. I went through a hurricane in 05' in Mississippi and I can't imagine something like that on a nation-wide scale. I think Trin means outside help when he says "passing people." The national guard was all over my area within days, as were police from all over the U.S. There was a blockade in front of my house and a curfew to cut down on looting. But, as with your situation, supplies such as gasoline were in short supply for a while and people resorted to pulling pistols on one another while in long lines. It sounds as if your situation was more severe than mine. There were no national guard here, and looting was not a major concern. But you know what I mean about how quickly supplies disappear with no re-supply. While the mission was put together in a matter of days, I have to wonder about the prep time for the silo. Who built the corral, and who stocked it with dead bodies wearing collars? Perhaps Rhodes lost his first four men (not counting Major Cooper who died later) in this initial operation? Or maybe Washington sent an advanced team into the silo to get it up and running before the operation was "put together in a matter of days"? Your idea here is possible. I always took it that Cooper and his men built the corral, rounded up the zeds, etc., after all the military and scientists were in the complex. Like when Sarah tells Logan to quit going thru specimens so quickly, because she wasnt sure the men would go up and get any more. On a side note, I always wondered about the death of Cooper. It was never said whether he died of some type of zombie attack, or natural causes, or what. When Sarah says theres another grave, Nicotero says its Major Cooper, he died this morning. She did not seemed surprised at the news. She didnt say "how did he die". So it appears that she may have known he was at deaths door when she left that day. But if so, it would be odd that she would be surprised to see a new grave. I chalk this up to another typical movie logic error. Sarah was the scapegoat for the hatred the soldiers felt toward the whole scientific team and it's "worthless mission". She wouldn't have been raped because they were horny, she would have been raped because they were angry. Makes sense, although I am still not sure that rape would be such a quick option in a mans mind, especially if this was so close to the point of the outbreak as others seems to think. Losing men in Iraq is a bad comparison to Rhodes losing five men in a cave while the world falls apart above. I was in the service, and I don't think there's any way to find out how long it'd take the military to break down to where the enlisted men would be allowed to smoke grass during meetings. I imagine if I was an officer in charge of men who had witnessed their wives and family members come back to life and eat each other as the whole world fell apart, I'd probably have to take drastic measures to keep them going on the few brain cells that were left. That, or you'd have an entire until full of people acting like Miguel. In reality, I don't think you'd get months out of anyone, let alone years. I think suicide woudl be a huge factor. No way in hell they'd been down in that cave more than a few months. I think that in the most disperate situations, and they were certainly in a desperate situation, that the instinct to survive would kick in, and they would last as long as possible. Just as the instinct to eat was still with the zombies, even with the one who had his stomach cut out, from the "primordial ooze" part of the brain, I think we all would have a survival instinct kick in. When did we agree that the complex in Day' was situated on an island? Well, it does not say specifically in the movie that the bunker is on an island. In reality, the topside scenes were filmed on Sanibel Island off the coast of Ft. Myers, and we have discussed difficert island arguments before, but you are right, that is not made clear one way or the other in the movie. Of course, seeing how most of Florida is not much above sea level, I am not sure where there would be an underground bunker anywhere around here.

[SRP76]

It doesn't matter if they are on an island or not, because they are obviously connected to the mainland by some access point. More and more zombies show up every day. If they were completely disconnected, they wouldn't be showing up constantly, because there would be a set number of zombies, and that's all. They'd run out of new arrivals unless more were able to shamble across from the mainland.

[Yojimbo]

It doesn't matter if they are on an island or not, because they are obviously connected to the mainland by some access point. More and more zombies show up every day. If they were completely disconnected, they wouldn't be showing up constantly, because there would be a set number of zombies, and that's all. They'd run out of new arrivals unless more were able to shamble across from the mainland. Good point about more showing up every day, but doesn't negate the possiblity of an island. It still could be a large island that has plenty of places for zombies to congregate before they get to the helipad. Though I agree that the supply of zombies would eventually run out if it was an island (unless more of the horde could make it's way underwater like in Land, and really, how unlikely would that be?) But your point is well taken, if it is an island, it is likely connected to the mainland with shome sort of access point. Regarding the issue of an underground, rather dry looking bunker being in Florida, exisiting below sea level, I do see the error in logic, but I am still willing to suspend disbelief since GAR Rules, and without suspension of disbelief the entire premise of the film (dead returning to life) goes straight to hell.

[EvilNed]

I think there have been many strong points for why Land takes place after Day. Such as in Land the dead no longer bother, but in Day they do. I guess that's a real clear cut case for me.

[MinionZombie]

I think there have been many strong points for why Land takes place after Day. Such as in Land the dead no longer bother, but in Day they do. I guess that's a real clear cut case for me. As well as the fact that GAR himself - the dude who writes and directs these movies - says so.

[Philly_SWAT]

As well as the fact that GAR himself - the dude who writes and directs these movies - says so. Where?

[MinionZombie]

Where? All over your face! Oooh, sick burn. Seriously though. Land is after Day 'time into an outbreak' wise. Just is.

[Deadman_Deluxe]

Oh god ... not this topic again! Despite some peoples insistence that this issue has not yet been resolved, it has, several years ago or more. I can only presume that the people still whittling on about this were either not here at the time it was resolved, were here and didn't listen, were here and couldn't accept it, or are just plain stupid!

[Mike70]

Where? actually romero says they aren't connected at all except by the phenomenon. HW: Many horror sequels bring back previous survivors to fight the evil once again... George: Yeah HW: ...yet you have never done this in your Dead films. George: No. HW: Is there a reason for that? George: Well you know, they were never... I never did anything with the period. I could have set them all in 1968 [laughs] and since they weren't connected in time... Well, in other words, I just used the period. I shot one in the 70's and the background was 70's - I shot one in the 80's and the background was the 80's - and this one this background will be 2000. So I don't feel that you can continue the same characters. The thing that continues is just the phenomena and I try to put a different spin on it that reflects the time when the film is made, rather than try to keep the same characters going, it just wouldn't make any sense unless they were all done in the same period. i changed the bold/italic characters. again from an interview given to horrorweb: http://www.horror-web.com/interviews/georgeromero.html sounds like george never meant for them to be connected in a timeline. sounds like he was simply trying to reflect the decade they were written in.

[Zombill]

*Rolls grenade into thread and closes the door* opps i think you forgot to pull the pin

[Jonathan]

Yes, it was a "Kaufman" economy, but it was still the same money we have now, now some re-issued Kaufman currency. To me, it is implausible to believe that in a world overrun with the living dead that the aquisisition of money would be the prime concern of a large part of the populace, unless it was so close to the start of the outbreak that people were still in denial about the problem and thought the world would shortyly return to normal. Here is the problem, you give people too much credit. I think with after the shock wore off the majority would be right back to the concept of money is everything.

[Philly_SWAT]

HW: Many horror sequels bring back previous survivors to fight the evil once again... George: Yeah HW: ...yet you have never done this in your Dead films. George: No. HW: Is there a reason for that? George: Well you know, they were never... I never did anything with the period. I could have set them all in 1968 [laughs] and since they weren't connected in time... Well, in other words, I just used the period. I shot one in the 70's and the background was 70's - I shot one in the 80's and the background was the 80's - and this one this background will be 2000. So I don't feel that you can continue the same characters. The thing that continues is just the phenomena and I try to put a different spin on it that reflects the time when the film is made, rather than try to keep the same characters going, it just wouldn't make any sense unless they were all done in the same period. This seems to support the argument that I have been making all along, that he simply made the movie in the time that existed when he made each one, and that does not have any effect on the "timeline". I dont think his quote that he did not use the same characters reveals anything, since we already knew that after watching the flims.