 Originally Posted by CornishCorpse
Ooo the board is split on this one. What if those in need of the supplies have nothing to offer in exchange only the clothes on their back? The family I said coming off the road and knocking on the survivalist`s door what can they trade? I understand what youre saying Legion and currency is a must but not everyone is going to have anything. People will just be fleeing, admittdly they should have been prepared but the dead are rising for fecks sake who woulda thunk it?...........Well cept for you guys
They have more than the clothes on their backs. What did they do for a living? What were their hobbies? A nurse or a guy who liked to wood carve could be useful, and I might find something for them to do and pay them in food. If nothing else, they have the ability to cut firewood, muck out an outhouse, or other manual labor tasks. They can trade labor.
And if they make it up to Mr survivalist's door to knock without being stopped by a sentry or something, his security sucks.
But the fact is, people SHOULD have more than the clothes on their back in an emergency. We are only reminded daily of crises, small and large around the globe where a supply of nonperishable food, a water filter, a first aid kit, and other odds and ends, none terribly expensive, and all so useful, would make a difference.
But they are caught up in spending their every penny they have, and a lot they don't have, on material wants, rather than useful needs, and suffer greatly in the aftermath of a hurricane, or other disaster.
Hence my 12.50 comment. He was able to put back food for 6 people for 2 years. That's not even two grand. Yet, what does a plasma screen tv cost? Yet, they guy with the plasma screen that hasn't had a broadcast, much less been on in 6 months should get some of that guy's food?
That's the point. Our society has become so specialized, so interconnected, and so fragile because of it, that a major crisis will result in a massive die off of people. It's called carrying capacity. Modern farming and other things have increased the carrying capacity of our planet far, far beyond what it could have been with say, hand plows and such.
Take modern farming, dependent on fuel, seed, and fertilizers, as well as pesticides, and billions will know hunger, and hundreds of millions will starve.
The guy with food isn't going to be able to feed everyone. Hell, he might not even be able to feed himself if the situation outstrips his supply. A guy on another board had preps for himself and his wife for a month or two, but had 30 people show up after Katrina and they were gone in two days. Now, how does everyone starving help anyone?
It doesn't.
Originally Posted by Legion2213
Fair question CC, and personally speaking, I'd probably more inclined to give to a needy person who asked or was willing to earn it than somebody who demanded it and would murder me and my family for it, in fact, in mr survivalists place, I'd rig my suplies with some plastic explosive and blow them to kingdom come rather than hand them over to thieving scum...the likes of EvilNed and his posse would die for hot ashes and melted plastic.
And another question is important here, if those sort of folk are willing to kill and steal to "save humanity" what lengths would they go to to "repopulate humanity"...for the greater good and all that...
Exactly. A needy person who asked me for something, and was willing to barter with me, either goods or labor as I explained above, is likely to get something, unless I'm really hard up and can't spare it.
A guy who comes to the gate and demand or threatens me? Well, **** him. A soft pointed .223 Remington slug will settle his ass down permanently.
My thoughts have always been to break up one's stash into small, man packable loads and spread them around one's area post-crap fan impact. That way, one won't make a tactically foolish decision to stand and fight a much larger, better armed and tactically superior foe. One retreats, and rigs what can't be taken with with boobytraps, and comes back to pick up the pieces later.
Won't RedNed and his biker posse be surprised when they pick up that MRE box and find it's been rigged with a pound of homemade explosives rigged to a trembler switch, which closes the circuit when disturbed, like the tilt switch on a pinball machine? Or that the food they stole was laced with a slow acting poison? That the box of ammo they took from me had been rigged to blow up the gun and kill the shooter that uses it, like a US operation that inserted boobytrapped ammo into the North Vietnamese Army supply system? Which was also used by others?
As far as how far RedNed would go to repopulated the earth... We all know. We don't need to speak the answer, but we know, and we know that if that's the method used, it'd be better we just go extinct. If armed robbery and murder and slavery and god knows what else is his way of preserving the human species, then it's better we just leave planet earth. If we have to sacrifice what makes us human-empathy, reason, etc to survive, then it's just better we go.
Originally Posted by CornishCorpse
Have to say Im with EvilNed on this although Wooley does make some good points but the problem with youre argument wooley is that the rules changes as the circumstances things we cant do normally become accesible in an emergency such as this. If I go and kill someone on the street Im arrested, go to court and eventually jail if the dead were stumbling around you think the goverment would take as much notice? They would be focused on controlling the crime.
Yes it is theft and indeed murder but as EvilNed said its what takes for humanity to survive, yes it would be a crime but sometimes you need to look over youre morals for the greater good. So when a mother stumbles off the road with her three children and comes knocking on youre door you intend to poke youre head out and say "Its only 12.50 you cheap bastards" and lock up youre keep? Sorry but somethings are better in theory than practice.
Of course law and order is needed here more than ever but realistically you would share one way or another. Reminds me of the scene in the new war of the worlds were the protagnoist is driving through the crowds but because of the people he cant move and they begin smashing the windows. People will do whatever it takes to keep them and theirs breathing.
I don't think the rules change as much as people think they do. There would still be 'justice'. Ned rips off my place, and it's six months after everything went to hell, no, there's no cops, no courts, but I do gather my neighbors, the ones I'm working with, and we go hunt Ned and his clan down because we all realize we could and when we find Ned, there's no courts, no trail, just a short dance at the end of a long rope. Sooner or later, we'll run out of people who need such a permanant attitude adjustment.
The trick to survival is that in order to see the sunrise tomorrow, you need to sleep tonight. Now how well will Ned and the others who resort to armed robbery and murder sleep? You need to balance survival with being human.
As far as mom and her kids, like I said above, what did she do for aliving? Hobbies? She's got some skill, and the kids too, and I'm not talking about that.
If nothing else, she'll trade labor cleaning animal pens or something for their meal. Yes, "It was only 12.50 yah cheap bastards!" would be great, but then I'd have a Ned type on my hands, and even at $0.50 cents each, the bullets would be expensive, especially on my conscience. To see tomorrow, one must sleep tonight.
Yes, self preservation is hard wired into each of us, which is why it irritates me so much that survivalism much less disaster preparedness is so uncommon.
I'm far from what I'd like to be, but I'm so much better off than many.
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But yeah, you're so cool, with your defences and stuff.
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