I don't really understand the beginning of Dawn

[LoneCrusader]

Why were the people in the apartments keeping dead bodies with them? And why did the SWAT raid the building, to kill the zombies? And how did they know about the zombies in the apartments, if that's what they were doing? And why were they shooting people on the roof tops and why was that fat cop busting open doors and shooting people? In other words, I don't really understand that scene at all and would appreciate an explanation Also, how much longer you reckon that building held out against the dead, and for that matter, the city? (Which was Cleveland? Or was it Philly?) Sorry 'bout all the questions.

[capncnut]

Why were the people in the apartments keeping dead bodies with them? Because they still believe in respect for the dead, unable to face killing their relatives and handing the bodies over for extermination. And why did the SWAT raid the building, to kill the zombies? Because the squatters were illegally trespassing. And why was that fat cop busting open doors and shooting people? Because he had gone insane.

[Philly_SWAT]

Why were the people in the apartments keeping dead bodies with them? "Because they still believed that there's respect in dying" - Peter This was only about 3 weeks into the outbreak. People were not willing to accept that their loved ones had died and came back to live as a flesh eating zombie. That would be a hard thing to accept. How can my wife be dead? She is walking around, she must be alive. So she must just be sick. I will try to figure out what to do to help her. And why did the SWAT raid the building, to kill the zombies? "There's a state of martial law in effect in Philadelphia, as in all major cities. The bodies of the dead, must be turned over to specially equipped members of the national guard" - Dr. Foster Martial law was in effect. The public had been ordered to turn over the dead, because authorities realized the danger of not properly disposing of dead bodies. The people in building 107 were disobeying orders from the government. SWAT went in to kill the zombies, and get recently dead bodies that havent turned and dispose of them. "Any dead body that is not destroyed becomes one of them. It gets up and kills! The people it kills get up and kill!" - Dr Foster And how did they know about the zombies in the apartments, if that's what they were doing? Presumably they found out somehow offscreen before the start of the scene. And why were they shooting people on the roof tops and why was that fat cop busting open doors and shooting people? They are shooting people on the rooftops because those people are not following the orders being given to them by the Captain on the bullhorn, and they are coming out shooting at them! The fat cop was a racist asshole, pissed that the projects were better than where he lived, and had either just gone crazy and started shooting anything that moved, or was using the situation to commit murder whereas he could not normally get away with it. In other words, I don't really understand that scene at all and would appreciate an explanation Hopefully I helped. Also, how much longer you reckon that building held out against the dead, and for that matter, the city? (Which was Cleveland? Or was it Philly?) It was in fact Philly Hard to say how long it come have held out. With proper planning and co-ordination, quite some time I suppose, not long without it. Sorry 'bout all the questions. I like questions!

[LoneCrusader]

Thanks for the help. I wish George would make a movie about what happened in Philly during and after Dawn. So Dawn was 3 weeks after the outbreak. The city was in relative chaos then, huh, so how much longer do you think it lasted? Was it kinda a snowball effect of death and probably didn't last but a few more days? And do you think the country/rural areas had better luck? And did any cities survive? In Land they talked about an outpost in Cleveland, so I'm guessing Cleveland had better luck than Philly.

[Philly_SWAT]

Thanks for the help. I wish George would make a movie about what happened in Philly during and after Dawn. So Dawn was 3 weeks after the outbreak. The city was in relative chaos then, huh, so how much longer do you think it lasted? Was it kinda a snowball effect of death and probably didn't last but a few more days? And do you think the country/rural areas had better luck? And did any cities survive? Judging from the chaos we see in the film, as well as seeing two different groups of cops abandoning their posts, I think it is safe to say that Philly didnt last very long. There may have been pockets of survivors here and there, but they would have had to leave to look for food eventually, unless they had a huge stockpile for some reason. After leaving whereever they were at, they would either be killed or get the hell out of Dodge, seeing as the city would have been overrun by zombies. In Land they talked about an outpost in Cleveland, so I'm guessing Cleveland had better luck than Philly. Well, I guess part of the answer to this question depends on whether you consider the stories as being set in the same universe or not! If not, then we have no information about Philly at all in Land. For all we know, Philly is a thriving post-zombie city, run by benevolent leaders, unlike Kaufman in the Green. People in Pittsburgh just have no communication/knowledge of Philly. If they are in the same universe, then I would assume that Philly has been overrun, as we discussed before. As far as Cleavland goes, Cholo seems to think there is an outpost there, Riley does not appear to agree with him. Cleavland is closer to Pittsburgh than Philly is, but it is a major city, therefore I would assume it would be in just a bad a shape as Philly, in either case. Pittsburgh unique Golden Triangle downtown would make it an ideal location to try to protect a big area of land.

[MoonSylver]

[I]" "There's a state of martial law in effect in Philadelphia, as in all major cities. The bodies of the dead, must be turned over to specially equipped members of the national guard" - Dr. Foster Martial law was in effect. The public had been ordered to turn over the dead, because authorities realized the danger of not properly disposing of dead bodies. The people in building 107 were disobeying orders from the government. SWAT went in to kill the zombies, and get recently dead bodies that havent turned and dispose of them. Ah...now here's a good question. Did they KNOW about the zombies before they entered? I always thought no. Peter & Roger seem surprised when the Priest tells them "Many people have died, on these streets. In the basement, of this building, you will find them.". From what I understood, SWAT was there to evict the residents based on another one of Fosters announcements: "Citizens may no longer occupy private residences no matter how safe or well secured." Guess there's nothing concrete to show if they DID or DIDN'T know, but as I say, based on the above, it always seemed to me they went on what they thought was going to be an forced evacuation of armed citizens who weren't complying w/ the order to vacate private residences, & ended up getting more than they bargained for...

[SRP76]

They knew about zombies in one of the apartments, at least. "Not that room, NOT THAT ROOM!!". Not listening to the order, Wooly busted the door in with no caution. Next, we got a zombie scramble in that apartment. Whether they knew about zombies in the basement is another matter. It's also possible that grunts like Roger didn't know all the details, but the higher-ups did.

[sandrock74]

I always wondered why the SWAT team didn't just attempt to seal off the buildings instead of raiding them. Barricade the buildings and leave armed guards in a couple vehicles to keep an eye on things as everyone else moved onto the next. If that could be done successfully, the buildings could then be burned down and all the zombies inside would be gotten rid of in one fell swoop! Ruthless? Yes. But something that HAD to be done. Those people in the tennants were dead meat anyway.

[MoonSylver]

They knew about zombies in one of the apartments, at least. "Not that room, NOT THAT ROOM!!". Not listening to the order, Wooly busted the door in with no caution. Next, we got a zombie scramble in that apartment. Whether they knew about zombies in the basement is another matter. It's also possible that grunts like Roger didn't know all the details, but the higher-ups did. Yeah I always wondered about that guy. He was dressed as a street cop, not as a member of the SWAT team, so I always figured that maybe HE knew what was going on as the apartment was part of his beat, or maybe he was tipped off by one of the residents as they entered the building.

[axlish]

Not to highjack the thread but does someone want to take a crack at explaining the black police officer, without a gas mask (so I assume he was not SWAT) yelling "Not that room! NOT THAT ROOM!" The obvious is that he knew there were zombies in there, but how did he know? Is he a security guard for the building?

[Philly_SWAT]

Ah...now here's a good question. Did they KNOW about the zombies before they entered? I always thought no. Peter & Roger seem surprised when the Priest tells them "Many people have died, on these streets. In the basement, of this building, you will find them.". From what I understood, SWAT was there to evict the residents based on another one of Fosters announcements: "Citizens may no longer occupy private residences no matter how safe or well secured." Guess there's nothing concrete to show if they DID or DIDN'T know, but as I say, based on the above, it always seemed to me they went on what they thought was going to be an forced evacuation of armed citizens who weren't complying w/ the order to vacate private residences, & ended up getting more than they bargained for... You are correct that the statement was made about no longer being able to occupy "private residences". It never occured to me that building 107 was a private residence, but I suppose it could be considered such. I thought they meant single family homes by that. If people were not allowed to stay in ANY private residence, including big buildings such as apartment complexes and tenements, then where would they live? There wouldnt be enough room at the local armory, especially in big cities with populations over 1 million. As far as evidence to whether they know or didnt know zombies were inside, I think that there is indirect evidence that they had to have known. It seems unlikely that the people of 107 would be the only ones disobeying the "turn over your dead" edicts. Everyone would be freaked out, scared shitless, and not wanting to believe that their loved ones were even dead, considering that they were walking around. It seems logical to me that many, if not most, of the people would not want to turn over a re-animated husband, wife, mother, son, daughter to be destroyed when they had little believeable information about the problem at hand. And on the rooftop, when Roger is saying everything that the Captain on the bullhorn says, BEFORE HE EVEN SAYS IT, has to be to illustrate that Roger had been on many raids of this type before. He was so used to the situation that he already knew by heart the exact words his Captain was going to use. So unless this was the first time ever they had come across a building where people were refusing to turn over their loved ones to be destroyed, it stands to reason that Roger, and any other raid veteran would be well aware of what was in store for them. And you would think also that they would fill in rookies like Roy Tucker as well, if for no other reason than it would be safer for all to have as much info as possible. You cant have a rookie go in and try to protect your back when he freaks out at the first sign of a zombie because he didnt know they would be in there.

[MoonSylver]

Not to highjack the thread but does someone want to take a crack at explaining the black police officer, without a gas mask (so I assume he was not SWAT) yelling "Not that room! NOT THAT ROOM!" The obvious is that he knew there were zombies in there, but how did he know? Is he a security guard for the building? Look at my post, right before yours. There's my explanation.

[axlish]

Fair enough Moon, but logistically, if he were a street cop, he'd be nowhere near the scene when SWAT enters the building. The only explanation that could be made if he were a cop is if he lived in the building and had just gotten off duty. I'm guessing he is building security, and possibly is the one to alert the police in the first place. That is the only explanation as to why he'd be with the team, so he could help identify hot spots.

[MoonSylver]

You are correct that the statement was made about no longer being able to occupy "private residences". It never occured to me that building 107 was a private residence, but I suppose it could be considered such. I thought they meant single family homes by that. If people were not allowed to stay in ANY private residence, including big buildings such as apartment complexes and tenements, then where would they live? There wouldnt be enough room at the local armory, especially in big cities with populations over 1 million. True. They do make mention of moving citizens to central portions of the city, so perhaps they had more than just the usual emergency rescue stations set up. And on the rooftop, when Roger is saying everything that the Captain on the bullhorn says, BEFORE HE EVEN SAYS IT, has to be to illustrate that Roger had been on many raids of this type before. He was so used to the situation that he already knew by heart the exact words his Captain was going to use. Now that I always figured was just the spiel he used on EVERY SWAT raid. Nothing it it to indicate it was specific to this type of situation. So, you could interpret it either way... I always took it just to illustrate that Roger was an old pro & not a rookie, & to set up the exchange between him & Rod Tucker (& to add a touch of humor). So unless this was the first time ever they had come across a building where people were refusing to turn over their loved ones to be destroyed, it stands to reason that Roger, and any other raid veteran would be well aware of what was in store for them. And you would think also that they would fill in rookies like Roy Tucker as well, if for no other reason than it would be safer for all to have as much info as possible. You cant have a rookie go in and try to protect your back when he freaks out at the first sign of a zombie because he didnt know they would be in there. See, to me they DID kinda freak out in there. Wooly goes ape shit ( ), one of the 2 guys that enters the apartment with Roger commits suicide, the guys downstairs bash in the barricade (which I wouldn't have thought they would have done if they knew there were zombies in there, unless maybe they didn't know how many, or thought they could handle it). Plus then Peter & Roger in the basement. All of it together (to me) seemed like a bunch of guys who walked into something WAY more than they bargained for, something they weren't expecting. Also, we're 3 weeks in, where the shit is really starting to hit the fan, where things are reaching the breaking point. But it seems like it's JUST AT THE POINT where it's getting there. Not sure how many of these type of situations would have come up in that period of time. Now that I think about it though, When the National Guard guy pokes his head in he says "This must be where they kept 'em huh?, so HE seems to have known. So, maybe they did know! Or maybe the Cop upstairs, or one of the residents told him...hmmm... Y'know, it's amazing to me that movies this old, that we've all seen as many times as we have, still have as many secrets & mysteries as they do, & still has scenes that are as open to interpretation & discussion as Night, Dawn, & Day. Fair enough Moon, but logistically, if he were a street cop, he'd be nowhere near the scene when SWAT enters the building. The only explanation that could be made if he were a cop is if he lived in the building and had just gotten off duty. I'm guessing he is building security, and possibly is the one to alert the police in the first place. That is the only explanation as to why he'd be with the team, so he could help identify hot spots. Eh, there were all kind of people there. Regular cops, National Guard. The Captain & the guy with him looked like detectives rather than uniformed officers. Not too far fetched in that kind of crisis that all kinds of units would be co-mingling. It would also make sense that the regular cops would have been the first on the scene & that when they met armed resistance that SWAT was called in. So maybe he was one of the first responders. Plus, a low income project like that having uniformed security? I dunno...

[LoneCrusader]

Interesting stuff. Also, why did they make it illegal to occupy private residences? They would obviously be more safe than forcing civilians into crowded areas. It would be more organized maybe at first, but not when everyone started dying.