If you had Romero's ear?

[strayrider]

Shootem, I respect your opinion and don't mean to dispute you, but I personally saw a woman at a DIARY screening here in Los Angeles who forced her date to leave the screening because it was making her physically ill. I saw another couple storm out in disgust during the acid head bit. LOL! I remember when I saw Dawn during its initial run, right after the exploding head scene, a collective gasp/moan/groan went up from the audience and a number of people got up and left. Guess they couldn't handle the "rocket ride" (and they hadn't seen anything yet). LOL! -stray-

[DubiousComforts]

Even as late as the mid-70's audiences weren't as jaded as they are today. Movies like Death Wish or Jaws for example had huge public reactions. The Exorcist? People were flipping-right-the-fuck-out over that movie. It would also help to mention that all those films are well-crafted motion pictures that didn't suck ass in the least. Have you watched the assault scene in DEATH WISH recently? 35 years later, it still packs a wallop.

[shootemindehead]

Right on Moon! Once again in agreement with you. Shootem, I respect your opinion and don't mean to dispute you, but I personally saw a woman at a DIARY screening here in Los Angeles who forced her date to leave the screening because it was making her physically ill. I saw another couple storm out in disgust during the acid head bit. And once, during a screening of "The Cook, the Thief, His Wife and Her Lover" back in the day the girl I was dating at that time made ME leave the theater because a sequence involving decaying sides of beef combined with nudity nearly made her chuck. Needless to say, our relationship was doomed and ended soon after that date. But you have a point about this claim being overused by marketing types to the level where it becomes hard to believe. Nah, it's ok if you guys disagree. That's fine. It's always good to hear other sides. Perhaps American audiences react differently. In Ireland, people are too mean to walk out of film half way through . They'll stay and get their money's worth even if it's rubbish. Maybe that girl at the "Diary of the Dead" was just sick of Geroge's "message" and and had enough...'cos I really cannot remember too many gore scenes to be sick about. Just kidding...I don't mind "Diary of the Dead" at all...in fact I bought the DVD. Maybe audience reaction in the States is different. I have to say, when I saw "Ronin" in New York, people cheered at certain points! You would NEVER. EVER get such a reaction to a film like that in Ireland. It's not beyond my imagination to think that some people would find "Dawn of the Dead" too horrific to view for a number of reasons, but George himself said he didn't find the film horrific, but more comic. "Day of the Dead" is another kettle of fish altogether. But you're correct, producers do use the "puking cliche" far too often to promote what are usually rather tame films...in my opinion at least.

[Yojimbo]

Nah, it's ok if you guys disagree. That's fine. It's always good to hear other sides. Perhaps American audiences react differently. In Ireland, people are too mean to walk out of film half way through . They'll stay and get their money's worth even if it's rubbish. Maybe that girl at the "Diary of the Dead" was just sick of Geroge's "message" and and had enough...'cos I really cannot remember too many gore scenes to be sick about. Just kidding...I don't mind "Diary of the Dead" at all...in fact I bought the DVD. Maybe audience reaction in the States is different. I have to say, when I saw "Ronin" in New York, people cheered at certain points! You would NEVER. EVER get such a reaction to a film like that in Ireland. It's not beyond my imagination to think that some people would find "Dawn of the Dead" too horrific to view for a number of reasons, but George himself said he didn't find the film horrific, but more comic. "Day of the Dead" is another kettle of fish altogether. But you're correct, producers do use the "puking cliche" far too often to promote what are usually rather tame films...in my opinion at least. Shootem, you are probably right about the differences between audiences in Ireland and USA. Every Ireland native I have ever met across the board has admittedly been a lot tougher than the average American, so it would stand to reason that you Irish would laugh at scenes which would otherwise make the average American audience-goer vomit in disgust. Plus, I wonder if culturally an American on a date is more likely to cater to his date's demand to walk out of a theater for whatever reason? Maybe an Irish dude would have the nuts to say "You go ahead an leave, I'm staying to see the rest of the show" Not saying this is the way it is, mind you, just a thought. On a side note, back in my college days I once got into a fight with an Irishman, broke his nose and he shrugged it off like it was nothing at all and he managed to continue the fight long enough to give me a black eye before do gooders pulled us apart. A day or so later we shook hands and eventually became good friends. Your average American wouldn't have reacted in this manner - a broken nose would probably have ended the fight right there, and I don't know that many Americans would be willing to forget about the fight so quickly.

[Wyldwraith]

I don't think he's "fallen for his own hype" per se...I DO think maybe he's gotten it a bit back-asswards in terms of how he marries story & message. IN "Dawn" for example, he was shown around the mall & the idea for the story was born. As the story evolved all of these other elements were added in. I think that's the right way to go. He didn't look at the mall & go "Ah ha! What a perfect opportunity to comment on consumerism!" the story came FIRST, THEN the other elements came in. In the last couple of efforts it seems like "I have this message, now...how can I hang a story around it..." EXACTLY, This is the exact point I've been making. You articulated the point about how he's starting with message and then bending and twisting a story around it to fit. I feel that as long as he continues with this methodology GAR will be unable to create a better than so-so flick. Incidentally, when I made the comment about whether or not lightning would strike twice for GAR I wasn't talking about whether or not he'd had other successful zombie movies. He did, three of them. What I meant to do was question whether or not he would get the lucky chance-driven factors that combined favorably in NotLD to happen again. Dawn and Day are both GREAT movies, but they're great because of how they were made. Not because of lucky elements. (Like GAR originally choosing a white guy to play Ben in Night, and then ending up with that great Ben/Cooper conflict with racial tensions overlying the conflict due to his substitution of an African-American actor into the role. GAR himself admits that the racial tension angle was NOT a planned feature. It simply came together, and allowed GAR to play to one of his biggest strengths. Ie: Running with an unplanned concept and/or creative device that emerged in the course of shooting unexpectedly). Dawn and Day (as great and awesome as they are) don't have these kinds of "luck" in them. Also, I think it would be foolish for a director who is operating inside of a VERY narrow creative niche which appeals to a cult following to disregard the feedback of their fanbase. I'm not talking about letting them horn in on his creative process directly. I'm talking about staying aware of what sorts of plot devices the fans loved, and which ones they detested. The relative strength of emphasis placed on the message he wants to marry to the story etc. These are the sorts of things where he would do well to study what the fans felt did or didn't work in his past creative offerings. In other words: If GAR knows that a majority of fans felt that the message overshadowed the story in his last two offerings wouldn't it be foolish to do the exact same thing message-wise in his current project? My big fear is that GAR is going to deliver another bomb, and then rather than try again to get it right he'll spend his remaining span as a director doing something without zombies. I really feel it'd be a major tragedy if that were to happen. Especially since it's so avoidable. Just my .02

[shootemindehead]

Shootem, you are probably right about the differences between audiences in Ireland and USA. Every Ireland native I have ever met across the board has admittedly been a lot tougher than the average American, so it would stand to reason that you Irish would laugh at scenes which would otherwise make the average American audience-goer vomit in disgust. Plus, I wonder if culturally an American on a date is more likely to cater to his date's demand to walk out of a theater for whatever reason? Maybe an Irish dude would have the nuts to say "You go ahead an leave, I'm staying to see the rest of the show" Not saying this is the way it is, mind you, just a thought. On a side note, back in my college days I once got into a fight with an Irishman, broke his nose and he shrugged it off like it was nothing at all and he managed to continue the fight long enough to give me a black eye before do gooders pulled us apart. A day or so later we shook hands and eventually became good friends. Your average American wouldn't have reacted in this manner - a broken nose would probably have ended the fight right there, and I don't know that many Americans would be willing to forget about the fight so quickly. Well, I don't know about Irish people being tougher (regardng films anyway), I think we are just more hesitant to complain in a public manner. Although we certainly do that in private (down the pub! ). I, myself, have sat through some awful dross in my time and only once came close to walking out of the cinema (but not to ask for my money back). That was "U-571". A godawful travesty of a film, if I ever saw one. Come to think of it, I nearly walked out of "Pearl Harbor" too. I'm ashamed to admit I was there in the first place! On the whole, I think American audiences get involved in movies much better than we do in Ireland (or Europe), hence the clapping at the end of films and cheering during the show. But if it's not to their taste, they'll be quick to register that. Which is a good thing IMO.

[Yojimbo]

Well, I don't know about Irish people being tougher (regardng films anyway), I think we are just more hesitant to complain in a public manner. Although we certainly do that in private (down the pub! ). I, myself, have sat through some awful dross in my time and only once came close to walking out of the cinema (but not to ask for my money back). That was "U-571". A godawful travesty of a film, if I ever saw one. Come to think of it, I nearly walked out of "Pearl Harbor" too. I'm ashamed to admit I was there in the first place! On the whole, I think American audiences get involved in movies much better than we do in Ireland (or Europe), hence the clapping at the end of films and cheering during the show. But if it's not to their taste, they'll be quick to register that. Which is a good thing IMO. Right on, brother. Pearl Harbor nearly made me vomit!