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Thread: Land of the Dead IS 3 years after the outbreak:

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilNed View Post
    But many aspect of it are retarded. Like the money.
    I've never had a problem with the money aspect personally.

    They've established their own mini city - and a mini economy to go along with it. Why not use a system that everything in that city already knows? People understand the values attached to the cash ... but it's interesting that there is such a schism between the haves and have nots in Land. The haves are entirely based on splashing the cash on themselves, and promising to splash cash on others (e.g. Cholo has money being kept for him - but he never receives it) ... meanwhile the have nots seem to have a mishmash of a system going on, which partly uses cash for services and goods, but they also combine that with bartering and favours, or just being decent folks (e.g. Riley giving the medication to the old man's son).

    So using money in Land has never been a problem for me - if you're establishing a mini economy, why wouldn't those engineering it use a system that they (and everyone else) already knows? It also translates easily for the audience.

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    Yeah, but money would only be of value inside Fiddler's Green. When Cholo pressures Kaufman for millions of dollars, what's he gonna do with it? How does he know that outpost in Cleveland uses money?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    I already read it years ago. That 5 year since the zombies first appeared premise of the original script could apply to the shortened and modified Day version that was shot.
    Except it doesn't, because Romero didn't have the shillings to make the 'Day of the Dead' he wanted, so instead opted for a paired back film set earlier than the 5 years he originally conceptualised, hoping that it would do well enough at the box office, so that he could make 'Twilight of the Dead' later on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilNed View Post
    Yeah, but money would only be of value inside Fiddler's Green. When Cholo pressures Kaufman for millions of dollars, what's he gonna do with it? How does he know that outpost in Cleveland uses money?
    I think Romero uses money to show that humans have learned nothing in their new world. We still "elevate" ourselves with greed and a currency is an easy way to do that, assuming everyone follows along, which the mini society within Fiddler's Green seems to be doing. Of course there wouldn't much choice. You either get with the program in a situation like that or you can leave and take your chances outside.

    We simply cannot let go of our "comfort", regardless of what relevance it does or doesn't have in the real world.

    As far as Cholo is concerned, money has been his raison d'etre for so long, he probably doesn't know any better and wants to get money from Kaufmann, which he might be able to use elsewhere...because, as Peter said in 'Dawn of the Dead'..."You never know".

    More than likely, money has no use outside of the mini economy in Fiddler's Green though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilNed View Post
    You take quotes from Day and break them down to suit your theory.
    Then you do to the same to Land. The thing is, you have to add very long paragraphs to explain what these quotes "actually mean", when to everyone else it's quite obvious what they mean and there's no need to discuss it.
    They have to be explained because some people seem to have a very hard time coming to logical conclusions from them. For example, in another thread I had to break it down and explain to another user why the soldiers in Day must necessarily have known very well the layout of the corral caves and that the silo was back there, because he apparently could not derive this logical conclusion from what we see and hear in the movie on his own. This is a similar situation, I have to go very much out of the way to explain why fact A is very much pertinent to fact B and so on, because some of my interlocutors apparently have a great deal of trouble making the obvious connections and coming to logical conclusions.

    The newspaper/TV-spot is another one. You accept a far fetched theory about a newspaper, despite it being nothing but a dramatic tool to get information across, but you dismiss that the TV-spots in Land fill the same dramatic role.
    The newspaper of Day is a physical old piece of information that can remain around for a looooooong time. The news broadcasts of Land are happening while such things being reported were actually going on, and once they are gone, they are gone! Broadcasts do not remain on the air forever. The newspaper was being swept by the wind. How in blazes can you prove its whereabouts prior to when we see it in the movie??? But anyone can easily prove that a broadcast happens only when it is aired by a TV or radio station. We know that what we hear at the start of Land was current stuff going on at the time. The movie even tells you "sometime ago" (follow TV/radio broadcasts) and then "today" (follow Riley's team preparing to raid a town) to make it even clearer that what we are hearing on the air is stuff that happened earlier. You see why I have to go out of my way explaining very basic logic here? You keep comparing apples with oranges. You should already know the huge difference between both situations. Newspaper = physical object that can remain around for a very long time. Broadcast = signals which are only around when a TV/radio station transmits them.

    And here you're doing it again. You linked to a site on expositional dialoge and clinged to the one quote that supports you. This is why a discussion with you is impossible.
    Try this instead;
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposition_(narrative)

    Narrative exposition, or simply exposition, is the insertion of important background information within a story; for example, information about the setting, characters' backstories, prior plot events, historical context, etc.
    That's not the exactly same as expositional dialogue. And I don't have anything about narrative exposition either.

    Wrong. I admit and always have, that we know nothing about their communication. But the difference is, since I don't know what they talked about, I make no assumptions from it. You concoct wild theories from it.
    You think that becuase the characters do not Think there is anywhere to go, there is nowhere to go. This itself is a fallacy, since both you and I know the characters are not omniscient.
    Is it so difficult to conclude that these communications they had with Washington had to be about the things they are deeply concerned with and not about trivial irrelevant stuff? Why is it that whenever we hear about Washington in Day it is always in two very important contexts?:

    1- Are there any survivors anywhere anymore???

    2- Communications with other survivors have ceased

    Let's see, I am going to go on a limb here and conclude from this context that the frequent radio conversations they were having with Washington must have been about how to make some awesome chicken enchiladas in green sauce, and not about what the hell is happening up there in your neck of the woods, have you heard of any more survivors, are things improving anywhere, we have not found any solution to the zombie problem yet, the situation down here in Florida is really bad, can we go somewhere else since the equipment and supplies in this base are proving to be not up to the task at hand, etc. You know, stuff that is actually very relevant to the movie's plot and that deeply affect the lives of all the characters involved and therefore are their priorities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shootemindehead View Post
    Except it doesn't, because Romero didn't have the shillings to make the 'Day of the Dead' he wanted, so instead opted for a paired back film set earlier than the 5 years he originally conceptualised, hoping that it would do well enough at the box office, so that he could make 'Twilight of the Dead' later on.
    A lower budget doesn't mean anything for this subject. The shortened version that was made into the movie could easily be that much into the future.


    As far as Cholo is concerned, money has been his raison d'etre for so long, he probably doesn't know any better and wants to get money from Kaufmann, which he might be able to use elsewhere...because, as Peter said in 'Dawn of the Dead'..."You never know".
    More than likely, money has no use outside of the mini economy in Fiddler's Green though.
    That alone by itself puts a huge dent on the idea that money in Land's world is only valuable in Kaufman's turf. Cholo knows very well that he will never be able to go back to Kaufman's turf, even if he gets the money. He is a wanted man there, if he goes there he is dead. So he is obviously planning to use that money he wants to get his hands on somewhere else. Add to that the fact that when Kaufman is trying to flee the city he takes his money with him. He also plans on using it somewhere else. Very much like in Dawn, money has managed to still retain its value at this point in the zombie crisis in Land. This value is gone by the fully developed apocalypse of Day, where basic survival is now the only concern of survivors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilNed View Post
    Yeah, but money would only be of value inside Fiddler's Green. When Cholo pressures Kaufman for millions of dollars, what's he gonna do with it? How does he know that outpost in Cleveland uses money?
    Not at all. Cholo will never be able to go back to Kaufman's city. He is a wanted man there. The money would be worthless to Cholo if it only had value in Kaufman's city. We can also see that Kaufman takes his money with him when he attempts to flee the zombie invasion of his city. Money very much still "talks" in Land's still relatively functional world. It does not even say a peep in Day's totally messed up world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by facestabber View Post
    The ZA would be much like a war zone. Here today, gone tomorrow. Some strong holds would remain. Some would fall. I'm sure that the Florida team was made aware of other possible "safe zones". The problem our Florida team faces is two fold. First of which is communications. They aren't working. What they knew may not remain accurate. The second is logistics of travel. A helicopter besides capacity has a point of no return. You go too far for a once perceived safe haven and its compromised you are in deep shit. Same goes for ground transport. Rhodes can't answer because they don't know anymore.
    Working on the information they had before communications ceased, they could have taken a calculated risk. We see the survivors in Dawn trying to make their way up north to Canada with a helicopter. While this would obviously be way more difficult to pull off in the fully developed chaos of Day, it would still be possible to find fuel here and there to make it all the way to one of these outposts.

    The reason why Rhodes can't answer is because neither he nor anyone else knows of any safe haven anymore. Their world is quite different from the earlier ones of Dawn and Land where you could still find pockets of functional civilization. The best idea that John can come up with is simply to go to an island, thus cutting yourself off from the total chaos of the mainland, and spend the rest of your life there. Back to basic survival.

    Land was a steaming pile of crap IMO. But I read it as society trying to make an isolated comeback. Not a before scene of Day. The zombies in land are a part of what Romero wanted for his original Day script. A nuisance. Society was used to it. For crying out loud, people were window shopping. Humans had got past the fear and that would have taken a long time. They found a way to coexist and weren't concerned about fixing the epidemic or saving other people. Im typing this on a damn phone so I will close with I believe Land was considerably after day. But Romero's approach left much to be desired.
    If that was Romero's intention, he totally failed in conveying such an idea. All it took for me to easily dismiss the notion that Land can possibly happen after Day is simply the level of functionality that is still around in the world of Land. Big cities with huge numbers of survivors capable of even making complicated machines is something totally alien to the total mess of Day, where there no longer is any organized society going on anywhere. Even the US government is in shelters and quite incapable of keeping its own communication networks going on, so let alone the prospect of maintaining large armies, developing complex war machines, sustain an economy, etc.
    Last edited by JDP; 10-Feb-2016 at 03:35 PM. Reason: typo

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    Seeing as you're just repeating the same old cherrypicked arguments about Washington, the newspaper and the news flashes which I've already countered I'm gonna assume you've got nothing to come up with.
    So anyway,

    when you do get around to watching Land of the Dead, approach it from an angle from wherein the survivors might have actually rebuilt their situation. You, see this was the point. Early clues to this can be found in the original Day script. Remember? You read it. In it, the survivors have also rebuilt.

    Hence why they have food, electricity, guards, organized raiding parts, oh and..

    a fucking specially designed zombie killing tank.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilNed View Post
    Yeah, but money would only be of value inside Fiddler's Green. When Cholo pressures Kaufman for millions of dollars, what's he gonna do with it? How does he know that outpost in Cleveland uses money?
    Ah, but these other outposts have also been set up by Kaufman / people Kaufman has worked with. It seemed to me from what he said that they'd established other communities - so by that logic they would likewise operate under similar circumstances with their own little mini economies based around the dollar. I picture it as it being Kaufman and a select few, with each one of them heading up each community with their own bespoke cabal of board members.

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    Cant really see how a person can attach the use or lack of use of money in Day as evidence of anything. We have Govt workers/contractors that were given top notch shelter, provisions(including booze mmmmmm) and protection to do a job. What purpose would they have for money? I don't think they were cruising to local 7/11's for slurpees. They had provisions and a job to do.

    All we see in Day is a short helicopter scene explained as 100 miles up and down the coast. No one responds to Mcdermotts CB. So what. Power is out and batteries are at a premium so how many people are hiding out listening to CB's 24/7. And the rest of the movie is underground. Cut off from communications does not equal the rest of the world as over. Romero gave us a microscopic glimpse of one group. He delivered on a dark and gloomy film. Sure felt hopeless but there are Rick Grimes led groups all over rural America. They gave up on govt long ago and are trying to start over and rebuild communiities. But as we can see it takes time. Now I know its not fair to use TWD world to explain Romeros world. But the view in Day is narrow.
    But I will give everyone the absolute proof that Day is not 5 years or even years in for that matter. Does Rhodes seem like a guy with the patience to last years down there? We all know that answer.....lol.

    Now the next Day/Land reunion of actors at some convention can someone please ask the actors/Romero for their interpretation. Day before Land or vice versa.

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    I agree with Ned and Shootme. Day comes before Land. For all the reasons they mention.

    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    They have to be explained because some people seem to have a very hard time coming to logical conclusions from them. For example, in another thread I had to break it down and explain to another user why the soldiers in Day must necessarily have known very well the layout of the corral caves and that the silo was back there, because he apparently could not derive this logical conclusion from what we see and hear in the movie on his own. This is a similar situation, I have to go very much out of the way to explain why fact A is very much pertinent to fact B and so on, because some of my interlocutors apparently have a great deal of trouble making the obvious connections and coming to logical conclusions.
    Which, btw, I still believe you are wrong!

    Your "logical conclusions" and "obvious connections" involve a chain of semi-plausible assumptions that involve "must have" logic and ignore equally obvious flaws. The soldiers "must have" searched the caves. Why? Simply because they lived there? Because they built a corral there? There is no direct evidence to support that they actually DID search the caves. It is inference and conjecture. And your conclusion ignores that they very clearly think they are trapped in the cave when the Lift control is topside and the panel is broken. You wrote that off as a nitpick in Steele's dialogue. You can't write off evidence that directly contradicts your conclusion as nitpicks while inferring facts from conjecture.

    You're doing the same thing in this thread. Repeatedly.

    Example:
    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    ...because such outposts in the devastated world of Day are an unthinkable thing anymore. Survivors are in a much more desperate situation than those gone-by days when you could still find such outposts. The zombies have gained the upper hand in the world of Day. In the world of Land things were still a bit more even and pockets of civilization could still be found.
    1. The "devastated world of Day" isn't any more devastated looking than the outside areas shown in Land.
    2. Who in Day said that outposts were unthinkable? They go looking for survivors. They think outposts must exist.
    3. The Day survivors are not necessarily in a more desperate situation. They have food, shelter, a method of transportation and a remote location with relavitely few zombies. The situation is only desperate due to internal conflicts.
    4. Land showed no evidence of having more pockets of civilization. Riley specifically says they haven't heard from anyone from the outside recently. They make zero mention of external government. Given their relative state of technology and ability to acquire things it stands to reason that the Land survivors had a longer reach, both physically and electronically.
    5. What makes you think the zombies in Day have gained the upper hand in general? In Land the zombies and humans were practically working under a truce. The humans upset the balance and the zombies wiped them out. In Day the zombies only succeeded due to the humans letting them in.

    This is just one statement. And none of the assertions (yours or mine) has any direct bearing on the timeline anyway. Two different situations with completely different make-up of survivors in very disparate parts of the country.

    For my part, I just have to look at the relaxed attitudes in Land to see that these people have been doing this a LONG time. Riley, Charlie, and Cholo go on scavenging runs in Dead Reckoning as a matter of course. They go outside the secured area to take out the trash. They have adopted new societal roles, new jobs, new living conditions. Which, btw, Cholo thinks he's worked the job long enough he has earned a promotion, and is long overdue. I just don't envision those behaviors solidifying in the first 6 months of the outbreak. People have moved from crisis, to acceptance, to relative comfort, to dissatisfaction. Mulligan even states that he would like Riley to stay so they could make the place what they wanted to originally.

    One thing that hasn't been largely touched upon is the one thing that is universally considered common across the movies ... the zombies. In Day they are still acting mostly like they did in Night/Dawn. Little recognition of one another. Limited tool use. View humans as food. Very little evidence of learning - limited to Bub showing us they can be taught and the corral zombies showing a glimmer of learning.

    Compare to Land where the zombies are showing societal behaviors. They hold hands and show recognition and empathy for each other. They mass learn skills. They accept and follow a leader. They express higher emotions like sorrow and a need for revenge. They master tool use. They prioritize bringing down the human threat over viewing humans as food. I can't see these being earlier behaviors.
    Just look at my face. You can tell I post at HPOTD.

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    Agreed with all of the above.

    A question for everyone, since we're obviously talking about subjective ways to view these films;

    Do you consider the films to be linked? We're talking back and forth as if in Day - Fiddler's Green is out there somewhere... Yet this might not have been the case. Riley uses a cellphone and McDermott a ham radio, for instance...

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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilNed View Post
    Seeing as you're just repeating the same old cherrypicked arguments about Washington, the newspaper and the news flashes which I've already countered I'm gonna assume you've got nothing to come up with.
    So anyway,

    when you do get around to watching Land of the Dead, approach it from an angle from wherein the survivors might have actually rebuilt their situation. You, see this was the point. Early clues to this can be found in the original Day script. Remember? You read it. In it, the survivors have also rebuilt.

    Hence why they have food, electricity, guards, organized raiding parts, oh and..

    a fucking specially designed zombie killing tank.
    Seeing as you have countered nothing but simply gone back to making gratuitous dismissals of all the coherent arguments that have been presented and comparing apples & oranges all over again, I will have to assume that you really have nothing else to come up with.

    Anyway, I have watched Land, several times in fact, and unlike you I am the one actually quoting it and pointing out pertinent scenes which contradict your notions.

    The original Day script also has plenty of differences with Land.

    If you seriously believe that a crook like Kaufman can somehow maintain armies, cities, economies, make "a fucking specially designed zombie killing tank" equipped with computers, radios, machine guns, long range rockets, etc. in a world where even the government of the most powerful nation on the planet has been forced underground and can't even maintain its own communication networks anymore, then I suspect that no one will make you see this topic in a more realistic manner and you will continue to view these movies more from the perspective of a Twilight Zone episode.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilNed View Post
    Agreed with all of the above.

    A question for everyone, since we're obviously talking about subjective ways to view these films;

    Do you consider the films to be linked? We're talking back and forth as if in Day - Fiddler's Green is out there somewhere... Yet this might not have been the case. Riley uses a cellphone and McDermott a ham radio, for instance...
    /\

    That, I'm afraid, is just Romero not caring about detail and it's one of the things that bugs me the most about 'Land of the Dead'. There are too many "modern" items floating around unnecessarily.

    None of which should have been.

    But, as I said earlier, I just don't think George gave a damn about such things.
    Last edited by shootemindehead; 10-Feb-2016 at 11:03 PM. Reason: .
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    Man, I thought I was a socialist, but I dont hold a candle next to JDP... He doesnt think private enterprise can amount to anything - not even housing projects! Or fancy stuff like computers and radios!

    Agreed, Shootem. Land is sort of a wasted oppertunity. The money issue irks me the most... What the hell is he gonna do with it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by facestabber View Post
    Cant really see how a person can attach the use or lack of use of money in Day as evidence of anything. We have Govt workers/contractors that were given top notch shelter, provisions(including booze mmmmmm) and protection to do a job. What purpose would they have for money? I don't think they were cruising to local 7/11's for slurpees. They had provisions and a job to do.
    The fact that to them the idea of getting paid to be there is nothing but a laughing matter should have already told you how different the situation is from that of Land, where money is no laughing matter by any means and people even are willing to kill others for it. The people from Day no longer give a rat's ass about things like salaries and money, what they care about is making it out alive (the soldiers, the two civilians under government contract) or solving the zombie problem by any means possible (the scientists). Cholo, Kaufman and the like survivors from Land, on the other hand, are very much concerned not only with surviving, but with doing so with a shit-load of money in their hands. Why? Money still "talks" in the still relatively functional world of Land. Money basically means nothing in the desperate apocalyptic world of Day. Romero even strongly hints at the "value" of money in Day when he shows us the streets of the desolate city with money freely flying around with the wind. Nobody cares about it anymore. Survivors are too busy trying to stay alive.

    All we see in Day is a short helicopter scene explained as 100 miles up and down the coast. No one responds to Mcdermotts CB. So what. Power is out and batteries are at a premium so how many people are hiding out listening to CB's 24/7. And the rest of the movie is underground. Cut off from communications does not equal the rest of the world as over. Romero gave us a microscopic glimpse of one group. He delivered on a dark and gloomy film. Sure felt hopeless but there are Rick Grimes led groups all over rural America. They gave up on govt long ago and are trying to start over and rebuild communiities. But as we can see it takes time. Now I know its not fair to use TWD world to explain Romeros world. But the view in Day is narrow.
    Re-read the thread again. When you take into account all the details presented in the movie, it is very obvious why these survivors are worried as hell about their futures and desperate to find solutions. This is not some Florida-only problem by any means. They know very well "the deep shit we are in", to quote Rhodes characteristically graphic manner of expression. Even their bosses in Washington are holing up in bunkers just like they are.

    But I will give everyone the absolute proof that Day is not 5 years or even years in for that matter. Does Rhodes seem like a guy with the patience to last years down there? We all know that answer.....lol.
    Unfortunately for him, it was not up to him to decide. Major Copper dies the very same day we see in the movie. Before that Rhodes was not in charge and had to take orders from him. And you are also assuming that they have been in the bunker for 5 years. Says who? The 5 years is how much time has elapsed since the zombies first started popping up. We don't know when exactly during those five years was the team assembled and sent to Florida. But judging by the amount of work they had to go through to before the scientists could even begin investigating the zombie matter, these guys probably have been in that bunker for a couple of years or more. They had to find a suitable place to build the corral, a place where the zombies would not find any way of escaping, then go on top and start searching for them, capture them and bring them back to the base. Look at how many zombies they had captured. Look how unruly and difficult to handle they are. That by itself would have taken months to accomplish. By the time we see in the movie, they have already lost 6 team members. The idea that the survivors in Day have only been some months or just a year in the bunker is ludicrous.

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    I'm pretty sure I've read/heard somewhere that Romero has said that each film takes place at a different point in time during the same catastrophe. I think what confuses people is that the first three took place in chronological order and the others mixed it up a bit.

    The real spanner in the works in terms of chronology is Land and its bloody phones! There are two ways of looking at that I guess. Either the fact that they're using phones means that the network is still up, which would place it before Day – or that Kaufman and his cronies have managed set up and maintain a localized network (based on surviving infrastructure), in and around the Green as an extra security measure. I guess it all depends on how you want to look at it.

    I think by and large you have to ignore the technological aspect simply as being a by-product of making a series of films over such a long period of time, and assume that each one takes place in the 'present' or 'near future' from whenever the viewer happens to be watching.

    Or you could take the easy way out and proclaim Land to be an alternate universe Marvel type cross-over thing!

    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    The original Day script also has plenty of differences with Land.
    Actually that brings up an interesting point - wasn't the original Day script set towards the end of the apocalypse just as it was beginning to burn itself out? The big question is, did the time-frame of the story change with the re-write of the script?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trin View Post
    I agree with Ned and Shootme. Day comes before Land. For all the reasons they mention.
    Which have been addressed and shown to be faulty.

    Which, btw, I still believe you are wrong!

    Your "logical conclusions" and "obvious connections" involve a chain of semi-plausible assumptions that involve "must have" logic and ignore equally obvious flaws. The soldiers "must have" searched the caves. Why? Simply because they lived there? Because they built a corral there? There is no direct evidence to support that they actually DID search the caves. It is inference and conjecture. And your conclusion ignores that they very clearly think they are trapped in the cave when the Lift control is topside and the panel is broken. You wrote that off as a nitpick in Steele's dialogue. You can't write off evidence that directly contradicts your conclusion as nitpicks while inferring facts from conjecture.
    Does it have to be explained to you again? Unless you make the assumption that the Florida team are utter suicidal morons -all of them!- your question marks on the subject are simply impossible. Not only have they been living there for who knows how long, they had to find a suitable place to keep zombies in, without them being able to escape or make it back into the living areas. That by itself means having to explore the caves. Can you imagine these people who are so concerned about their own safety and survival just haphazardly going about the complex:

    "Eeny, meeny, miny, moe, that's it, we will build the corral here! Don't bother checking out the place, who cares if these caves lead to another exit outside and we lose all the zombies that are going to cost us a lot of work and risk to bring in, or even worse, have another entrance back into the bunker complex so they have a nice chance to kill us all, we don't give a rat's ass about our lives, so let's be as careless as possible about this!"

    Use your head, please. If they put them in those caves it must be concluded that they did it because they knew the place well and it did not have any exits or entrances that the zombies could use either to escape to the outside or find their way back to the bunker area where they lived and worked. Plus on top of that we have two civilians who know the silo is there. Exactly through what miracle these two could have been aware of this but the soldiers, who are in charge of the facility, paradoxically know nothing about it you have never cared to explain.

    You're doing the same thing in this thread. Repeatedly.

    Example:

    1. The "devastated world of Day" isn't any more devastated looking than the outside areas shown in Land.
    Yes it is. Look at the zombie overrun areas of Land. They don't look as bad as the desolate city of Day. Heck, in Land even some of the poor areas of the human city look in worse shape than the zombie areas!

    2. Who in Day said that outposts were unthinkable? They go looking for survivors. They think outposts must exist.
    The outposts are not mentioned in Day because such a thing simply can't exist anymore. Even what's left of the government itself is holing up in bunkers just like they are. They go looking for survivors anywhere they can! They of course find none. Miller even sarcastically remarks "another waste of time, right?" after their latest effort to find anyone.

    3. The Day survivors are not necessarily in a more desperate situation. They have food, shelter, a method of transportation and a remote location with relavitely few zombies. The situation is only desperate due to internal conflicts.
    The internal conflicts are in fact due to how bad things are! And of course they are in a way more desperate situation than the plethora of survivors in Land. The survivors of Day care either about solving the zombie problem by any means (the scientists) or making it out of this mess alive (the soldiers and the two government contracted civilians.) The survivors of Land among other things are also very busy trying to find booze, buy cars so they can leave the city (!), eat hot dogs, go to clubs, get enough money to be able to be "movin' on up, To the east side, To a deluxe apartment in the sky, Movin' on up, To the east side, We finally got a piece of the pieeeeeeeeeeeeieeeeieee!", etc. Please, there is no comparison between the level of desperation of the survivors of both movies.

    4. Land showed no evidence of having more pockets of civilization. Riley specifically says they haven't heard from anyone from the outside recently. They make zero mention of external government. Given their relative state of technology and ability to acquire things it stands to reason that the Land survivors had a longer reach, both physically and electronically.
    Wrong. Cholo talks about going to an outpost in Cleveland, Foxy does not seem very worried that he will not find a safe place to go to after he drops off bitten Cholo (Foxy does not go back to Kaufman's turf, he also is a wanted man there), and Kaufman himself refers to other outposts that he himself has had a hand in establishing, just in case things get real bad in his own turf he and his cronies have safe places to go to. Where do you think he was trying to go when he only takes a limousine, a chauffeur, a hand gun and loads of money? To take a nice little tour of a zombie infested town to give charity to the zombies? Nope. Kaufman had his escape all planned already. He made quite sure there would be other safe places to go to. He is not the kind of fellow who would leave anything to chance.

    5. What makes you think the zombies in Day have gained the upper hand in general? In Land the zombies and humans were practically working under a truce. The humans upset the balance and the zombies wiped them out. In Day the zombies only succeeded due to the humans letting them in.
    Just look at what desperate situation the ever increasing numbers of zombies have put the few survivors left in Day, with hardly any safe places left to go to, and compare it to the relatively safe situation of the huge numbers of survivors in Land, who can even afford the luxury of leaving the city to seek better places on their own if they so want to.

    In Land there was no "truce" with any zombies. It was the still working infrastructure of the outpost, with its rivers, electric fences and loads of armed mercenaries, that kept the zombies at bay. What messed them up was that one zombie "got smart" and started leading the dumber ones against the survivors, something they did not expect, just like Steel and Rhodes in Day did not expect something similar and ended up paying dearly for it (if it wasn't for "Bub" shooting at them maybe they would have been able to fight their way out of the bunker and make it out alive, who knows.)

    This is just one statement. And none of the assertions (yours or mine) has any direct bearing on the timeline anyway. Two different situations with completely different make-up of survivors in very disparate parts of the country.
    Do you seriously think that if the Pennsylvania and Ohio outposts we see or hear about in Land had still existed by the time of Day that Washington would not have known about them, and informed their own people in other parts of the country about them too? In fact, we know that the existence of such outposts was even reported by the mass media when it was still around on the air. There would be hardly anyone in the world of Day who would have ignored their existence just from this fact. But they are no longer an option. Such things are unthinkable in the wholly devastated world of Day, where the best plan one can find is simply to go to an island, thus cutting yourself off from the mainland, and survive there for as long as you can.

    For my part, I just have to look at the relaxed attitudes in Land to see that these people have been doing this a LONG time. Riley, Charlie, and Cholo go on scavenging runs in Dead Reckoning as a matter of course. They go outside the secured area to take out the trash. They have adopted new societal roles, new jobs, new living conditions. Which, btw, Cholo thinks he's worked the job long enough he has earned a promotion, and is long overdue. I just don't envision those behaviors solidifying in the first 6 months of the outbreak. People have moved from crisis, to acceptance, to relative comfort, to dissatisfaction. Mulligan even states that he would like Riley to stay so they could make the place what they wanted to originally.
    There's so many problems with such an interpretation, they have been brought up a bunch of times already. Riley even wants to leave the city in a friggin' car! Slack doesn't even have a clue about how long does it take a bitten person to die and become a zombie. Foxy looks quite unworried by the fact that he will have to venture out there alone in car without a roof. Such things alone should tell you how relatively safe the world of Land really is. Such things, I repeat, are unthinkable in the world of Day where zombies rule the land quite indisputably. Such things were still very much possible in the world of Dawn, though, which happens earlier during the zombie crisis, when the zombies still have not completely gained the upper hand by their eventual huge numerical superiority.

    One thing that hasn't been largely touched upon is the one thing that is universally considered common across the movies ... the zombies. In Day they are still acting mostly like they did in Night/Dawn. Little recognition of one another. Limited tool use. View humans as food. Very little evidence of learning - limited to Bub showing us they can be taught and the corral zombies showing a glimmer of learning.

    Compare to Land where the zombies are showing societal behaviors. They hold hands and show recognition and empathy for each other. They mass learn skills. They accept and follow a leader. They express higher emotions like sorrow and a need for revenge. They master tool use. They prioritize bringing down the human threat over viewing humans as food. I can't see these being earlier behaviors.
    Only one zombie shows unusual intelligence in Land, just like in Day. "Big Daddy" in Land had a chance to organize the others, Bub did not. And the use of tools is already seen even in Night. Doctor Rausch in Dawn also mentions that the zombies can use tools in a primitive manner.

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