Indy 5 - Jumping a whole shoal of sharks?

[AcesandEights]

I found this response post to the original article perfectly sums up my feelings about Crystal Skull. Okay, Kingdom of the Crystal Skull lovers, since this film was such fine (or even passable) cinematic fare, please share what made the film--in your eyes--good or enjoyable. I mean most movies that are decent will have something that you think of fondly afterward, that was well done or maybe even something so cool or well done you'll never forget it...so what are these things for KotCS? Just wondering.

[acealive1]

If you're a real nerd, watch them in chronological order. Doom, Raiders, Crusade, Kingdom. And if you're a hopeless geek, you can watch the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles before the films. theres a timeline? tell us more, inside man.

[CooperWasRight]

theres a timeline? tell us more, inside man. Yes... Doom is a prequel.

[bassman]

theres a timeline? tell us more, inside man. Inside man? (I had to say that to myself in the tone of "Chocolate man") I could be wrong, but I believe the years are stated at the beginning of the films. Pretty much common knowledge. I assume this is because I asked what footage you knew was cut from Terminator Salvation and you never could scrounge up an answer?

[clanglee]

Okay, Kingdom of the Crystal Skull lovers, since this film was such fine (or even passable) cinematic fare, please share what made the film--in your eyes--good or enjoyable. I mean most movies that are decent will have something that you think of fondly afterward, that was well done or maybe even something so cool or well done you'll never forget it...so what are these things for KotCS? Just wondering. Well you see. . I am already a bit of an outcast in the Indy community because my favorite Indy film is the least favorite of most (Temple of Doom) But I found Crystal Skull to be a fun ride. . . .and I have never really expected more from an Indy movie than a fun ride. . .so. . .there. . . .Now I will admit that it didn't quite have the ease that the previous 3 had. . .it seemed a bit forced. . . .but with age of the actors. . and hell, the characters. . .that was a bit forgivable as well.

[C5NOTLD]

I found this response post to the original article perfectly sums up my feelings about Crystal Skull. It has nothing to do with being realistic. My Parents, in their late 70's, enjoy the first three Indy films and even when they saw Indy 4, they thought it was absolutely horrible. Has nothing to do with an audience going from being a child (original 3 films) to an adult (with Indy 4). Bad is bad. It has to do with being a fun adventure film. Indy 4 wasn't a fun adventure film like the first three (even TOD was darker than the other two but it was still fun and exciting to watch). Indy 4 was boring. And boring is a kiss of death when it comes to a Indiana Jones film especially one directed by Spielberg. Not even the great John Williams whose scores are always memorable couldn't save this one as I thought the KOTCS score was even lackluster. I can remember the music from the first three and not one piece of music from Indy 4 stayed with me. They dropped the ball on Indy 4 in all areas. .

[clanglee]

It has nothing to do with being realistic. My Parents, in their late 70's, enjoy the first three Indy films and even when they saw Indy 4, they thought it was absolutely horrible. Has nothing to do with an audience going from being a child (original 3 films) to an adult (with Indy 4). Bad is bad. . Ah but you see . . . your parents have grown up during this time as well. Not from childhood of course. But they have watched the change of Cinema over the past few decades as well. We have been innundated with so much!!! So many movies. . so much advancement in technology, so many changes. So their expectations have changed as well. . . .their view on the "cinema" has matured as well. No matter your age. . .you can be jaded. . . .and that is the problem.

[shootemindehead]

__________________________________________________ _______________ Originally Posted by JDFP Hey, say what you will about "Crystal Skull" not being as great as the other "Indiana Jones" flicks, but this debate about the fridge is just STUPID. Pick the most realistic one below: A.) Oh yeah, the Ark of the Covenant killing Nazi's through the power of God. Oh yeah, that's an every day thing. B.) The Holy Grail granting eternal life to anyone who partakes of it. Right... C.) Or, wait for it... someone surviving a nuclear blast by securing themselves in a lead-lined fridge? Okay folks... which of these three are more realistic than the others? C'mon... it's really not that difficult to choose. j.p. __________________________________________________ _______________ A and B are interesting to watch. C is just stupid. Not only that, we accept A and B, because they are the film's MacGuffin. They are the supernatural crux of the movie. Sure, I roll my eyes now at the end of 'Raiders of the Lost Ark', but I can accept its fiction, because the film is hanging on it. I can even accept the utterly ridiculous ending of 'Last Crusade', because again it's the grand finale. The end of the journey, if you will. Even though I think it's an appalling ending to a generally appalling film. But the atomic proof fridge thing is simply a lazy, over the top, CGI induced way of getting a character out of a tight situation...and yes, it's stupid. People are lashing out at it, because it is simply impossible to suspend the disbelief enough to accept it. When watching films, people have to buy into a basic concept. So, we buy into the Ark. We buy into Mola Ram's voodoo. We can even buy into a 700 year old knight guarding the cup of Christ etc, as they are central to the movie and without doing so, we may as well not bother watching the film at all. However, when writing or filming scenes that require a character to "get out of jail" as it were. It's usually best to keep them within the realms of possibility. So, the truck scene in 'Raiders' is believable, fantastic though it is. The rope scene in 'Temple of Doom' is believable too, even though the odds of survival are extremely slim. Even bringing down a BF108 with a flock of seagulls is within the realms of possibility. Although 'Last Crusade is repleat with idiocy. That fridge scene, however, is utterly impossible. So, it takes the viewer right out of the film. It's completely unacceptable as a device. But, Indiana Jones isn't the only movie that's been affected by cheap "get out of jail" scenes. The Star Wars prequels are littered with them too, and I blame the advent of CGI for this to a large degree. With CGI, the limits of the physical are no longer a restraint. So producers can literally have their characters do ANYTHING they want and quite often, it's completely beyond the realms of physical possibility. That's why there are 1000's of people who just cannot accept Indy 4's atomic fridge.

[bassman]

Okay, Kingdom of the Crystal Skull lovers, since this film was such fine (or even passable) cinematic fare, please share what made the film--in your eyes--good or enjoyable. I mean most movies that are decent will have something that you think of fondly afterward, that was well done or maybe even something so cool or well done you'll never forget it...so what are these things for KotCS? Just wondering. These are the things that keep it firmly within the realm of the Jones' IMO: The entire opening race leading up to area 51 is a great Jones-styled opening. Indiana's hat/shadow introduction - GREAT. The chase around Marshall College. You could splice that into one of the early films and not notice a difference. Indy and "Brody"(Can't remember Broadbent's name now, but he was a great replacement) in Indy's home. The cave where the skull is first discovered feels like a Jones movie. Although the fridge thing is a big deal to everyone, I still thought the scene leading up to it was hilarious. A great "Oh shit" Jones moment. Cate Blanchett was a great villian. Nice to see a lady instead of a graying old man. John Hurt. "Henry Jones Junioooor" Great crazy man. Labeouf. Like him, love him, or hate him....I thought he was fitting as Henry III. He felt like a younger Indy to me... Ray Winstone as well. Great as the "who is he?!?" guy. Like Hurt, he makes everything better. The Ants. How could it be an indy movie without a creepy crawly of some kind? And those things got my skin crawling... "I've got a bad feeling about this". Any fan of Indy or SW should know why. The entire theater cracked up for that one. The UFO looking like a 50's saucer - nice touch fitting in with the 50's timeframe. I wasn't a big fan of the cgi alien, but the collapsing temple scene was exciting. The Wedding. I'm sure a lot of fans were thinking "Indy can't get married!!blah blah blah", but I thought it was a nice touch to see him settling down and following in his father's footsteps in his old age. Now probably my favorite moment in the film - When Mutt picks up the hat and the Indiana Jones theme starts to kick in. You could hear the theater gasp like "NOOO it's too soon!", but just before the familar theme goes into high gear, Indy grabs the hat, puts it on and gives Mutt a wink. AWESOME. Indy is back for a while, baby! That's just a few things off the top of my head. Like I've said from the start, there are a few negative aspects of the movie(most of which have been mentioned), but as a whole they DO NOT make it any less of an Indiana Jones adventure, imo. I went in expecting to be as entertained as the previous three, and Kingdom did just that.

[LouCipherr]

I sat here and counter-pointed everything said above, then I realized, why bother. People like it or they don't. The fact that people are trying to reason things in the first three movies as being more believeable than the fridge or anything else in Indy 4 is astonishing. It was pointed out some of the "realistic possibilities" of the first three movies, but, the ark wasn't mentioned, pulling live beating hearts out of chests wasn't mentioned, and neither was the "everlasting life given by drinking water out of a chalace/cup" - so it's comparing apples to oranges. If you want to compare those "realistic" scenes to "realistic" scenes in Indy 4, then perhaps comparing those to the motorcycle chase in part 4 would be more appropriate. You can't compare the fridge scene vs. the "more realistic" parts of the first three. These are the things that keep it firmly within the realm of the Jones' IMO: All of the things bassman wrote I agree with. Not only that, after the long absence of Indy, don't you think that entire opening sequence in the warehouse was worth the price of admission alone? The re-intro of Indy, the villain (which I must say was well played by Blanchett), all of it - it was just a triumphant re-introduction to a character we hadn't seen in a decade. It's interesting.. Romero puts out 3 shit sequels to the original trilogy, and people have an easier time giving that garbage a free pass, but because of a stupid fridge scene in Indy 4 (mostly), it's cruicifed. C'mon guys, you're scaring me here..

[DjfunkmasterG]

after the long absence of Indy, don't you think that entire opening sequence in the warehouse was worth the price of admission alone? HELL NO! It was friggin pandering to the audience. I never rolled my eyes as much as I did at that sequence. It's interesting.. Romero puts out 3 shit sequels to the original trilogy, and people have an easier time giving that garbage a free pass What do you mean you people? I know you didn't say that but I wanted to try and work that in somewhere. I Do not give Romero a free pass on the newer films... well Diary I do because I do enjoy it... It has more of a horror vibe than Land or Survival. Had romero shot that 3rd person as opposed to 1st, I think Diary would have been a much better flick. C'mon guys, you're scaring me here.. Wooga Booga

[bassman]

HELL NO! It was friggin pandering to the audience. I never rolled my eyes as much as I did at that sequence. If the awesome re-introduction of Indy in Kingdom is pandering to the audience....ALL of the films are pandering to the audience. He has a great introduction in all four of the films, starting with the original Raiders! How is his slow, trunk/hat/shadow introduction any different from the over-the-shoulder forrest and whip shots in Raiders? Or the young indy shot that fades into Older Indy getting his ass kicked on the boat in Crusade?

[LouCipherr]

HELL NO! It was friggin pandering to the audience. I never rolled my eyes as much as I did at that sequence. I can't help it you're jaded.. That's your problem, not Indy's.. ...and "pandering to the audience"? For the love of shit, like Romero has been doing since LAND?! What do you mean you people? I know you didn't say that but I wanted to try and work that in somewhere. You're right, i didn't say you people.. I said some people.. so on that, note, here's your smiley again: I Do not give Romero a free pass on the newer films... well Diary I do because I do enjoy it... It has more of a horror vibe than Land or Survival. Had romero shot that 3rd person as opposed to 1st, I think Diary would have been a much better flick. "more of a horror vibe" doesn't make it good. It still sucked, just like the other two. If Indy 4 doesn't get a pass, Diary does not either, because as far as sequels go, Indy 4 was a way better sequel to the originals than Diary ever was, so Indy's opening sequence in part 4 was an excellent "Indy vibe" yet, for some reason, Diary gets the pass, Indy does not? Dude, stop smoking whatever it is you're smoking, or for the love of all that's holy, SHARE IT, will ya?! If the awesome re-introduction of Indy in Kingdom is pandering to the audience....ALL of the films are pandering to the audience. He has a great introduction in all four of the films, starting with the original Raiders! How is his slow, trunk/hat/shadow introduction any different from the over-the-shoulder forrest and whip shots in Raiders? Or the young indy shot that fades into Older Indy getting his ass kicked on the boat in Crusade? This times 100.

[DjfunkmasterG]

Let us agree to disagree.

[AcesandEights]

These are the things that keep it firmly within the realm of the Jones' IMO: The entire opening race leading up to area 51 is a great Jones-styled opening. Indiana's hat/shadow introduction - GREAT. The chase around Marshall College. You could splice that into one of the early films and not notice a difference. Indy and "Brody"(Can't remember Broadbent's name now, but he was a great replacement) in Indy's home. The cave where the skull is first discovered feels like a Jones movie. Although the fridge thing is a big deal to everyone, I still thought the scene leading up to it was hilarious. A great "Oh shit" Jones moment. Cate Blanchett was a great villian. Nice to see a lady instead of a graying old man. John Hurt. "Henry Jones Junioooor" Great crazy man. Labeouf. Like him, love him, or hate him....I thought he was fitting as Henry III. He felt like a younger Indy to me... Ray Winstone as well. Great as the "who is he?!?" guy. Like Hurt, he makes everything better. The Ants. How could it be an indy movie without a creepy crawly of some kind? And those things got my skin crawling... "I've got a bad feeling about this". Any fan of Indy or SW should know why. The entire theater cracked up for that one. The UFO looking like a 50's saucer - nice touch fitting in with the 50's timeframe. I wasn't a big fan of the cgi alien, but the collapsing temple scene was exciting. The Wedding. I'm sure a lot of fans were thinking "Indy can't get married!!blah blah blah", but I thought it was a nice touch to see him settling down and following in his father's footsteps in his old age. Now probably my favorite moment in the film - When Mutt picks up the hat and the Indiana Jones theme starts to kick in. You could hear the theater gasp like "NOOO it's too soon!", but just before the familar theme goes into high gear, Indy grabs the hat, puts it on and gives Mutt a wink. AWESOME. Indy is back for a while, baby! That's just a few things off the top of my head. Like I've said from the start, there are a few negative aspects of the movie(most of which have been mentioned), but as a whole they DO NOT make it any less of an Indiana Jones adventure, imo. I went in expecting to be as entertained as the previous three, and Kingdom did just that. Well, I disagree with many, many of your points, but I appreciate that you at least gave some concrete examples of things you liked or appreciated about the film. I'm not sure I believe you, but if you say you liked those things about the film I can't prove otherwise.