Florida Pastor May Reconsider Cancellation of Quran Burning

[darth los]

Just the other day we were watching Aladdin with my daughter when the Genie(Robin Williams) did an Arseno impression. We were both wondering if people even remember that show. I guess you just answered that question... I was an official member of the dog pound dude. Remember that barking fad he created. The woo-woo-woo while pumping your arm? A shame how he got blacklisted for standing behind farakhan.

[EvilNed]

For those who accuse me of being communist, and not "getting" it. Try looking at world history. When was communism ever applied succesfully? Never. Noone ever really tried giving it a shot, either. Lenin, while being an awesome visionary, wasn't perfect. A true revolution would rely on someone who would reject everything he denies others. Luxuaries, comforts and so forth. Lenin did not. In fact, as long as you have one strong leader, you don't have a communist state. A true communist state has never, ever been attempted anywhere. And a true communist state wouldn't work in a world of 7 billion humans, unless some certain emotions were eliminated, such as greed. And let's assume we'll never eliminate those emotions. Then no, communism won't work. But a heavy form of socialism could. I'm not suggesting we eliminate religion and patriotism by force. But that we, through education, slowly but surely steer humanity towards the course of enlightenment. Both religion and patriotism are two factors that, almost by definition (in todays world) generate conflict. That's a very, very bad thing for those of you who don't get it. Is banning it the right way? No. Banning is never the answer. But showing people what is wrong and how it is wrong. Remember when that character Jesus came along 2000 years ago? He didn't ban anything, he didn't kill anyone. He just showed what was right and what was wrong and what consequences they could lead too. This is what we need today. But today the enemies are religion and patriotism. These two mentalities go hand-in-hand in creating 95% of the worlds conflicts today. People say that money is the root to all evil. It isn't. Nationalism is. The urge to supply my nation with the best of the best, damn the rest. Money is but a player in this devilish scheme. I do not advocate violence, infact I am against it. And therefore I am by definition, against these two mentalities.

[Publius]

For those who accuse me of being communist, and not "getting" it. Try looking at world history. When was communism ever applied succesfully? Never. Noone ever really tried giving it a shot, either. Lenin, while being an awesome visionary, wasn't perfect. A true revolution would rely on someone who would reject everything he denies others. Luxuaries, comforts and so forth. Lenin did not. In fact, as long as you have one strong leader, you don't have a communist state. A true communist state has never, ever been attempted anywhere. Distinguish against those who would rebut your claims about religious violence by distinguishing that from "true religion."

[EvilNed]

Distinguish against those who would rebut your claims about religious violence by distinguishing that from "true religion." Good point, but I've already pointed out that communism would never work on a global scale. It could work in smaller societies. But only as long as you know everyone's name. Otherwise, you'd be sharing things with strangers, and people wouldn't want that.

[Wyldwraith]

First, Want to say that I have no problem with you personally Ned. Notta. We seem to find ourselves disagreeing quite often, and are both men of strong opinions, prone to a deep sense of conviction in what we believe. Sometimes I totally can't envision where you're coming from, but I'm sure the same can be said about me from your PoV. Second, I do NOT believe in Religion. I believe in Faith. Religion is man's attempt to connect with God, while Faith is God's attempt to connect with Humanity. Religion, Ie: The organizations, institutions and both the theological and secular traditions are collectively what Religion's composition is made up of. The key to what (**I** believe) is wrong with Religion as a created construct of humanity is simple. The same desire to control others, to gain at the expense of others, to deceive others to further one's agenda....all these and many more are the same drives responsible for tainting almost all of Man's other endeavors as well. Faith, on the other hand, is the product of humanity's noblest effort. The genuine seeking-after and discovering of real Truth. Without Truth, no action, endeavor, institution, social convention or governmental action contains any Good. Truth and what is Good are inextricably linked, and this is inarguable, whatever your worldview/belief system. At its most basic, Faith is simply sincere belief that something is Good and True, despite sometimes lacking any evidence which could foster belief in the unproven. The modern world has, in my sincere opinion, become FAR too entangled in the Falsehood that Proof = Fact = Truth. While it is true that many things one can prove to be fact are *also* True, and that while it is true that Compelling Evidence may indeed = Fact. Facts do NOT = Truth. Put more simply, or more basically. All real Facts are True, but NOT ALL TRUTHS ARE FACTS. This is where, again IMO, the disconnect occurs between the rational and the spiritual. The developed world-views of many people include those people having become accustomed to reliance on the rational connection between Facts and Truth, to the point that they (wrongly) conclude that in the absence of Fact, Truth must also be absent, or at least Unknown. That's where Faith comes in. We call it a "leap of Faith", at least in part because Faith bridges the gap between Us and those Truths that exist independent of Facts and the Evidence that identifies a Fact as a Fact. If we as a species could find an effective means of overcoming this disconnect between the "rational" and the Truth/spiritual, we would cure MANY of the ills that plague the human mind, heart and yes, Soul.

[Mr. Clean]

Let him burn it so someone else can burn a bible and then I can laugh because mankind really isn't that bright.

[SymphonicX]

For those who accuse me of being communist, and not "getting" it. Try looking at world history. When was communism ever applied succesfully? Never. Noone ever really tried giving it a shot, either. Lenin, while being an awesome visionary, wasn't perfect. A true revolution would rely on someone who would reject everything he denies others. Luxuaries, comforts and so forth. Lenin did not. In fact, as long as you have one strong leader, you don't have a communist state. A true communist state has never, ever been attempted anywhere. And a true communist state wouldn't work in a world of 7 billion humans, unless some certain emotions were eliminated, such as greed. And let's assume we'll never eliminate those emotions. Then no, communism won't work. But a heavy form of socialism could. I'm not suggesting we eliminate religion and patriotism by force. But that we, through education, slowly but surely steer humanity towards the course of enlightenment. Both religion and patriotism are two factors that, almost by definition (in todays world) generate conflict. That's a very, very bad thing for those of you who don't get it. Is banning it the right way? No. Banning is never the answer. But showing people what is wrong and how it is wrong. Remember when that character Jesus came along 2000 years ago? He didn't ban anything, he didn't kill anyone. He just showed what was right and what was wrong and what consequences they could lead too. This is what we need today. But today the enemies are religion and patriotism. These two mentalities go hand-in-hand in creating 95% of the worlds conflicts today. People say that money is the root to all evil. It isn't. Nationalism is. The urge to supply my nation with the best of the best, damn the rest. Money is but a player in this devilish scheme. I do not advocate violence, infact I am against it. And therefore I am by definition, against these two mentalities. Yeah I pretty much share 100% of your views here..

[SymphonicX]

while Faith is God's attempt to connect with Humanity. can you exlain how you believe faith to be a God created concept rather than a man-made one? Faith is just blind acceptance at the end of the day, no?

[Danny]

can you exlain how you believe faith to be a God created concept rather than a man-made one? Faith is just blind acceptance at the end of the day, no? yeah this is kind of confusing, if a god like the christian god exists it has no need of faith, according to those beliefs it made us y'know? at most maybe some trust in us to act certain ways and do certain things but when you have supposedly created something, and lets not forget, are sold as an omniscient, infallible being you dont need faith in anything because you already know everything that can was and ever will be. I think people humanize there gods too much, particularly the christian one, if it was half as human as many make out it would have gone mad with crippling loneliness as the only one of its kind to ever exist ever before what we conceive of as time even began. -though i guess that would explain the whole "made in his image" thing i suppose.

[Publius]

can you exlain how you believe faith to be a God created concept rather than a man-made one? Faith is just blind acceptance at the end of the day, no? Not necessarily. Faith goes hand in hand with evidence. People may disagree on how much evidence should reasonably be required to believe in a given proposition, but some degree of faith is necessary to believe anything that can't be proven true with absolute certainty. And almost nothing can. Even if you're the kind of person who only believes what he can see with his own eyes, that requires faith that your senses are a reliable indicator of reality. yeah this is kind of confusing, if a god like the christian god exists it has no need of faith, according to those beliefs it made us y'know? at most maybe some trust in us to act certain ways and do certain things but when you have supposedly created something, and lets not forget, are sold as an omniscient, infallible being you dont need faith in anything because you already know everything that can was and ever will be. I don't think anybody said God needs faith. Like you said, God is omniscient. Faith is a tool that God gave to humans.

[SymphonicX]

Right, third time deleting and re-writing. Here's the crux of the issue for me: You, me and everyone else in this planet cannot, and will never, ever, understand the truth. If there is a God, it is out of your remit as a human being to understand it. The four dimensions we live in - left/right, up/down, backwards/forwards and TIME are all we understand and all we will ever understand. There is no way in this life for any one of us to understand or fathom the truth - any idea, concept, idealogy, belief, faith or whatever you want to call it is man-made - the idea comes from within our dimensions, even if in this idea those dimensions have attempted to be explained. It's simply impossible. All we have are theories. With this in mind I say ditch the idea of religion and keep in mind that the best way for you to live a good and fruitful life is to be part of a progressive society that helps it's fellow man regardless of creed or religion. If you do that, and God turns out to be real, then you're a winner! If not, well you still lived a great life and can live out your last moments happy that you never killed anyone. It's pretty simple really. Looking upwards as some sort of control over the things which you cannot control is distracting from actually being a good person in most cases. Trying to please the big yellow circle in the sky is bizarre and pointless when the real changes and real tangiable results don't lie in where you sit your backside on a Sunday but what you're actually doing in this world to further and progress it in your own way. What I'm saying is God is irrelevant, the message of God is important. So believe in what you want but at the end of the day if you've let it distract you to the point where you've contributed NOTHING to the world, then you'd deserve hell anyway. That definitely includes the pastor in this discussion and anyone who's waged war in the name of religion.

[SymphonicX]

[EvilNed]

Personally, I fail to see the relevance of faith to anything except the faith I hold in others. The only faith that is relevant is my faith that humanity can (and hopefully will) pull together and better themselves. Collectively. I do not need any other faith. I have never had a faith in any superior being, and I most likely never will. I have never had any faith in any supernatural powers, and I most likely never will. I have faith in me and my peers, and humanity as a whole. Do I lack proof of this, or am I basing this on wild assumptions? Of course I have proof! I am myself part of humanity, and I know many others that are. If there are more like me out there, who simply want to live in peace and harmony with other people and just have a kick-ass time at it, then that's proof enough for me to base my faith on. Does that make it true? No. But at least I have proof to back up my faith.

[BillyRay]

Hmmmm... I've felt for a long time that any being that could remotely qualify as "God" is so vast and alien that any attempt to quantify that "God wants this, God hates that" is only vanity on the part of Man. Certainly a Supreme Being would be interested in it's own self-preservation (however something at that level of existance would describe it's "self"), and us being "part of God" would translate to the usual "help each other, build not destroy" message that perneates all of the major religions. Y'know, try to avoid being a Cancer upon Creation. I won't knock faith, tho'. I've seen a lot of good results from faith. I'm even a little envious of those who can stay faithful without constant questioning. faith is tha litle light when all else is dark. It's only when faith is turned against others that it becomes something ugly. Either way, I suppose I'm a militant Agnostic: I can't prove that God exists, and neither can you...

[AcesandEights]

Do I lack proof of this, or am I basing this on wild assumptions? Of course I have proof! I am myself part of humanity, and I know many others that are. If there are more like me out there, who simply want to live in peace and harmony with other people and just have a kick-ass time at it, then that's proof enough for me to base my faith on. Does that make it true? No. But at least I have proof to back up my faith. Did you just posit: "I am awesome, therefore I am"?