I apologize for any personal attacks or anything that I've made.
But I still stand by my original ideas.
All comments on my part will not include anything like that.
I'd still like to discuss this further, if everyone thinks it's safe to go back in the water??
They have decided to obey the herd instinct instead of listening to their own minds and instincts. How much clearer a separation between a man and a steer can there be?
IMO, the situation for them doesn't break down like that. You see it that way because your a person watching a TV show and analyzing the actions of those on-screen personalities. At this point, they aren't yet trying to pick up the pieces of civilization. They're trying to figure out what they need to do to survive in the short term, it's too early in their scenario to be talking about long term sustainability and retaining what it is that separates them from steer.
The small temporary camp they've setup isn't even secure. They're disoriented, hungry, scared, cold, and confused. And although they are in a group, they're still concerned mainly about their own. They're barely functioning as a group, they certainly don't have any confidence in the group yet because all that's happening is little fights and people lashing out at other people because of stress. They don't have anything they need, they don't know what's gonna happen next, or who's gonna die next.
Although they're not constantly in a state of absolute panic, they're still absolutely stricken with fear every second they're conscious. You have peoples family members seperating from the group on supply runs, making them even more on edge.
It's all about survival right now because it has to be!
We're seeing a group making a lifestyle of deferring all significant powers of choice to one man, in the hopes that man will provide them with safety in exchange.
This is where the discrepancy between our POV clash. I don't see that.
Outside of the decision to lie to Lori about Rick, what choices is Shane depriving the individuals of the group from making themselves?
It's to be assumed that the "rules" Shane mentions weren't forced upon anyone but rather agreed upon by everyone in the interest of safety and survival. But with all the differing personalities, people with less discipline or people who only think of themselves will disregard those rules for momentary comforts. So there has to be someone there to enforce the rules that everyone agreed upon or else most everyone will just do as they please. Like Ed and the log. He was cold and doesn't care about anyone but himself, so by putting that log on the fire he jeopardized the safety of the group. Shane stepped in because nobody else would've. You can't have everyone doing whatever they please.
I see that as a fact, not a "personal bias".
That's one of the reasons why we had a small dispute. Because that is not fact, that's an opinion. By it's very nature.
I certainly have not attacked anything but ideas and TV characters
Me neither.
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Originally Posted by Skold
I'm not thrilled with the turns the conversation has taken either, but it's still the same great show regardless of who says what to whom. 
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