Ahh, religion and ignorance at its modern day best!

[blind2d]

Mr. Clean is right! Religion is a personal choice, and so is sexuality. I don't care how much flack I get for saying this, either!

[BillyRay]

>flak flak flak< Regardless of any choices made, individuals have their own particular inclinations toward all sorts of things. Technically what we are is meat with electrical impulses. But those impulses, depending on which bit of meat they're giving a jolt to, tend to make us lean in all sorts of directions. Plus there's DNA (microscopic bits of meat), enviornmental factors (what Mom & Dad's electrical impulses made them do), etcetera, ad nauseum. Choice is an illusion too, when you think about it. (But that's just my head meat pulsing with it's own electrical zippys)

[Neil]

Mr. Clean is right! Religion is a personal choice, and so is sexuality. I don't care how much flack I get for saying this, either! Religion is a personal choice, but heavy infuenced by culture/society. Sexuality certainly is not a personal choice.

[Mr. Clean]

Religion is a personal choice, but heavy infuenced by culture/society. Sexuality certainly is not a personal choice. explain

[darth los]

I've always laugh at those who believe sexual orientation is a choice. To those people i say (men mostly) try this: Try going out with a guy. What? Disgusting you say? You only like women you say? Well how do you think gays and lesbians feel when everyone wants them to be attracted to a gender they they are just not attracted to? You'd figure they'd be just as disgusted right? Just as it's not a choice whether i like women or not it's not a choice for them either.

[Neil]

explain OK... Religion is a personal choice, but heavy infuenced by culture/society. Sexuality certainly is not a personal choice. What are you specifically unsure about?

[JDFP]

I've always laugh at those who believe sexual orientation is a choice. To those people i say (men mostly) try this: Try going out with a guy. What? Disgusting you say? You only like women you say? Well how do you think gays and lesbians feel when everyone wants them to be attracted to a gender they they are just not attracted to? You'd figure they'd be just as disgusted right? Just as it's not a choice whether i like women or not it's not a choice for them either. I've never understood this argument -- it doesn't hold up to me at all. There's a big difference between having specific thoughts towards an individual and acting on said thoughts. I could think about killing someone all day -- if I don't actually kill the person am I still a murderer because I've thought about doing it for a long time? There's a difference between having a genetic and/or cultural pre-dispostion to be "attracted" to a certain type of individual or group and acting upon such attraction. I'm attracted to brunettes (mmm... Winona Ryder...) myself. Does that mean it's not a "choice" for me to sleep with Winona or not if given the opportunity? I suppose if someone was holding a gun to my head it would not be a choice. Otherwise, it is a choice. Unless I'm forced by coersion to sleep with a specific person -- it's a choice whether to do it or not. I'd go so far and say that some people are born with some genetic goo that makes them more attracted to members of their own sex from their chromosomal soup floating around in them -- to an extent. We as humans are more than just our hormones and chromosomes (my opinion, again). It's not a choice to be born with that disposition. However, it is certainly a choice to pick who said individual chooses to sleep with or not. (These are just my opinions). I'm not making any value judgements against people -- but being a heterosexual or homosexual is not the same as being born, say, caucasion or hispanic. We choose who we sleep with in society -- at least in America -- therefore it is a choice. j.p.

[Mr. Clean]

OK... Religion is a personal choice, but heavy infuenced by culture/society. Sexuality certainly is not a personal choice. What are you specifically unsure about? whatever I've always laugh at those who believe sexual orientation is a choice. To those people i say (men mostly) try this: Try going out with a guy. What? Disgusting you say? You only like women you say? Well how do you think gays and lesbians feel when everyone wants them to be attracted to a gender they they are just not attracted to? You'd figure they'd be just as disgusted right? Just as it's not a choice whether i like women or not it's not a choice for them either. "I always laugh at those who think they have an opinion. HaHaHa " Laugh away Darth, laugh away. I'm glad I could give you a laugh. I dunno about you but I choose not to put penis in or anywhere near any of my orifices. With this "they didn't get to choose" arguement, you open all kinds of doors and it doesn't just stop at what type of gender. It carries on to age, race, ect. Child molestors were born attracted to 8 month old baby girls? They can't help it because they didn't get the choice in the manner of who they are attracted to and want to have sex with. No one said being gay was bad. Only that they have the freedom to choose to be gay or straight.

[JDFP]

No one said being gay was bad. Only that they have the freedom to choose to be gay or straight. Some homosexuals are certainly born with a genetic disposition to be attracted towards other men / women towards other women. It's scientific regarding chromosomal 'stuff'. It doesnt' mean they must act on this though -- this is where the choice comes into play. No one is born as a homosexual just as no one is born as a sociopath or pedophile (though there are genetic codings that can be traced in said people -- I'm not comparing these types of people to homosexuals, only pointing out that they all have some unique genetic goo that can be traced) -- but people are sometimes born with a disposition to be attracted towards others of the same sex. And there's nothing wrong with that at all. But people certainly can choose to act upon those specific disposiions or not act upon them -- this is where the matter of choice comes into play. Hell, I'm a confident enough guy to say I think Robert Redford is a damn fine looking man -- that doesn't mean I'd act in choosing to sleep with him. j.p.

[Danny]

I wrote a long thing that got deleted by my web fucking up when i tried to post so i'll summarize it. Both sides of this argument are giving one answer out of a possible two for billions of humans, each with an exponentially larger amount of points in there life with increasing variety, be it nurture or nature that affect this original point on debate. This is like the argument about making a clone and it being an exact duplicate of you, when it never could be because no to humans occupy the same space at the same time at the same relative constant and experience all of there lifes points of forking off so to speak at the same time and certainly not in the same way. This is not a true debate because you are focussing on too large a sample and therefore there will never be a black and white choice of answers. because theres about a billion shades of grey between. This is a person to person thing and should not be a large one stamp grand answer for all of humanity. Not unlike religion, to segway it nicely back to the original topic.

[EvilNed]

I disagree, religion and sexuality is indeed a choice. People flip flop on both topics all the time. Couples sometimes get a divorce and one of people pursue a relationship with someone of the same gender afterward. Uhm. I think I just got dumber just by reading that. Sorry, but when you learn the ability to turn gay at will, give the rest of us a holler will you? Also, I'd like to point out that as an atheist (and getting prouder by the minute, I might add...) I cannot turn religious. No matter how much I want too. It's impossible for me. And I doubt you could turn atheist if you "wanted" too. Or? Can you? Please, this is a sincere question.

[Danny]

Uhm. I think I just got dumber just by reading that. Sorry, but when you learn the ability to turn gay at will, give the rest of us a holler will you? inb4 click your red sequined shoes, you just pucker your lips and blow, its surrounds us, it penetrates us ect, ect. yuck yuck yuck.

[Publius]

Also, I'd like to point out that as an atheist (and getting prouder by the minute, I might add...) I cannot turn religious. No matter how much I want too. It's impossible for me. And I doubt you could turn atheist if you "wanted" too. Or? Can you? Please, this is a sincere question. To say that something is a choice is not to say that it is easy to change to a different position at will. No matter how much I want to, it'd be practically impossible for me to turn into a Justin Bieber fan. But music is a matter of personal preference. ;-)

[Mr. Clean]

Uhm. I think I just got dumber just by reading that. Sorry, but when you learn the ability to turn gay at will, give the rest of us a holler will you? So you've never seen someone flip flop on the subject? I've seen religious people commit suicide and that's taboo thing to do as a believer. Why don't you take your own advice and do some thinking out of your own box.

[Neil]

Some homosexuals are certainly born with a genetic disposition to be attracted towards other men / women towards other women. It's scientific regarding chromosomal 'stuff'. It doesnt' mean they must act on this though -- this is where the choice comes into play. No one is born as a homosexual just as no one is born as a sociopath or pedophile (though there are genetic codings that can be traced in said people -- I'm not comparing these types of people to homosexuals, only pointing out that they all have some unique genetic goo that can be traced) -- but people are sometimes born with a disposition to be attracted towards others of the same sex. And there's nothing wrong with that at all. But people certainly can choose to act upon those specific disposiions or not act upon them -- this is where the matter of choice comes into play. Hell, I'm a confident enough guy to say I think Robert Redford is a damn fine looking man -- that doesn't mean I'd act in choosing to sleep with him. j.p. Your argument really doesn't hold up I'm afraid... We're talking about sexuality. It fairly clear that individuals are born with pretty much a wired predisposed sexual orientation, this then with events in early life will ultimately determine their adult sexuality. So ultimately there really is little choice, it's a matter of the wiring you're born with, and the modification made to that wiring in early years. Now bringing into the argument whether they act opon it is another matter... But has nothing to do with their predisposed sexuality.