Zombie Apocalypse: Realistically? Yes or No.

[Yojimbo]

@Yojimbo: I completely agree with your assessment. People can and often do override even the most deep-seated of instincts to make conscious, reasoned out choices. Your examples of the 9/11 first-responders who entered the burning towers to try and help trapped and/or injured people, even as a huge mob of people was going the other way in their flight from the Twin Towers, was a very apt example of this facet of human nature. The same could be said for the soldiers who jumped on grenades to protect their comrades/buddies. That said, I believe that the "Defend Your Mate" and the "Flee to avoid being killed/eaten, and find another female with which to pass on your genetic contribution to the next generation" instincts came about SIMULTANEOUSLY as traits naturally selected for during our species evolution. Furthermore, I believe that these two polar-opposite instinctive impulses exist in the human male together, and in the form of an "Instinct Switch" in the brain. By switch, I mean that the human male has had passed down to them/us an instinct based on a near-instantaneous assessment of both the "threat of imminent and potentially life-threatening attack" and the "threat of an imminent predation-attempt" situations. Put more simply, I believe that when a man finds himself in a conflict situation where the threat of attack or being attacked and eaten is present, and he is forced to make the decision to stand and defend his mate or flee and abandon his mate to increase his chances of surviving in that split-second of Fight or Flight, the man's mind weighs the perceived odds of winning or losing the conflict. If this internal "odds-giver" part of the instinctive response determines the chance of success if he Fights is below X-percentage, instinct gives much greater weight to the Flight-response, and the man likely flees to save himself. If the odds are equal or greater than X-percentage, more weight is given to the Fight-response, and the man likely chooses to stand and fight in defense of his weight. This is an oversimplified version of a very complicated part of brain-function, and there are undoubtedly other factors that are weighed by the male mind's "odds-giver", such as the perceived difficulty/amount of energy expended and the %-chance of encountering more danger in securing a new mate if the man flees and abandons his current mate...and as previously stated, humans have the capacity to rationally override and act contrary to their instincts if they so choose in a wide range of circumstances. I just feel that based on what we know of how the human primate favors the "middle ground option" in an evolutionary sense concerning everything from testicle size smaller than the very promiscuous chimpanzee but larger than the very monogamous gorilla (for example) to the positioning of our eyes in our faces being a compromise between the enhanced range of peripheral vision granted by increasing the space between the eyes and locating them nearer the sides of the head, as is common to prey animals, and the deeply inset eyes for honed depth-perception of a predator....that our survival instincts are equally likely to have taken the same "Middle Ground Path" when it comes to how we react to danger. Very well stated. I can see your point - abandon your mate or flee to mate with another can certainly be choices that are situationally contingent in that your final choice would be made based on the specific threat that you were facing at that time. -- -------- Post added at 01:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:45 AM ---------- That's because zombies and ghouls are make believe. Romero zombies are a mash-up of numerous old legends. Anybody who writes a story or creates a film should have the same creative freedom that Romero had. I argue that Romero created the modern zombie as we now view it, however I see your point. All the same, anyone who is doing a riff on the modern zombie is doing a riff on a Romero zombie so naturally one would assume that similar rules would apply. Of course folks are welcome to make up their own rules and are free to do so, just as others are free to scoff at the notion of a vegetarian zombie, or one that wants brains and talks without use of a tounge or lips, or zombies that are athletically superior to average humans. -- -------- Post added at 01:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:51 AM ---------- Because of rigor mortis they wouldn't be able to move at all. Might as well call them the planking dead. Not necessarily, though I am certain that it won't make them sprinters. I could see someone with major muscle cramps being able to move about as efficiently as your average rigor mortis affected ghoul, without planking - moving slowly with reduced abilities to flex joints. -- -------- Post added at 01:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:54 AM ---------- Average humans have shown the capability of extreme strength. Soccer moms lifting cars to save their children. It's not unreasonable that the undead could tap into that strength as well. I have often heard of the sotry of a woman lifting a car for a kid ever since I was a little kid myself - but this always seems to me to be anectodal at best and from an unknown source. Nevetheless, it does sound reasonable that a living human could respond on an extraordinary level when stressed into a rage-like state.

[Christopher Jon]

I argue that Romero created the modern zombie as we now view it, however I see your point. All the same, anyone who is doing a riff on the modern zombie is doing a riff on a Romero zombie so naturally one would assume that similar rules would apply. Of course folks are welcome to make up their own rules and are free to do so, just as others are free to scoff at the notion of a vegetarian zombie, or one that wants brains and talks without use of a tounge or lips, or zombies that are athletically superior to average humans. But here is the problem. When people do their own variation of zombies that don't fall lock-step in-line with Romero's vision they are torn to shreds by a vocal minority who feel that anything that isn't Romero-esque is wrong. Romero zombies should follow Romero rules. My zombies should follow my rules. And honestly, I don't think Romero put much though at all into the science behind his creatures. He wanted them to act a certain way and stuck with it. Unfortunately, too many people have seen his movies and think that is how it works when in truth, he just made shit up to fit his vision. Not necessarily, though I am certain that it won't make them sprinters. I could see someone with major muscle cramps being able to move about as efficiently as your average rigor mortis affected ghoul, without planking - moving slowly with reduced abilities to flex joints. An electrical current applied to a dead frogs leg can get that sucker moving pretty fast which would be an argument for dead doesn't automatically mean slow. But this is a discussion diving into neurology and muscles and a whole bunch of shit I know nothing about. Basically, Romero zombies have zero science to back up why they act they way they do, like a said before, he just made shit up to fit his vision and now fans are running with that vision believing it's an accurate representation of how the dead would behave and move if they were to come back to life. Vampires are dead and they don't have problems moving fast or doing a bunch of other silly stuff and ghouls are just vampires retarded cousins. My big beef is the fanboys who shit on everything that isn't 100% Romero. The dude made 3 fun movies and 3 crap movies. Zombie actually has a fairly broad interpretation from a reanimated dead body to a living body that is brain dead. Time to move on from the past and breath some life into a dead genre.

[Mike70]

I have often heard of the sotry of a woman lifting a car for a kid ever since I was a little kid myself - but this always seems to me to be anectodal at best and from an unknown source. Nevetheless, it does sound reasonable that a living human could respond on an extraordinary level when stressed into a rage-like state. those stories are less anecdotal than you would think. your brain is capable of making you do just about whatever it wants. there are stress hormones can that triple your strength for a short time by flooding your cells with oxygen and glucose. since i've been through the whole PTSD thing, i understand stress reactions pretty well. first thing your brain does in a flight or flight situation is shut off all non-essential systems. digestion and the urinary systems are shut down entirely and the blood and oxygen they use are redirected to your muscles and brain. the next thing your brain does is shut off the logic and reasoning part of your brain. thinking can get you killed and your brain doesn't want that, so it turns your decision making ability off and it starts making decisions for you. then it decides to either run or fight. you have no control over whether to stay or flee. none. if it decides to stay it will punch a few buttons and you'll be like chuck fucking norris in a really bad fucking mood. the professor knows what i mean. i was in somalia and he was over in the sandbox. if your brain hits that magic button that mixes testosterone, epinephrine, norepinephrine, and two hormones called orexin and leptin (leptin vastly increases your metabolism and orexin increases strength and alertness)- watch the fuck out. that's the werewolf juice that makes the world appear like it is slow motion while you are moving like the ginsu man. your slicing, dicing, chopping and cutting through the can all in one smooth motion.

[Rancid Carcass]

Basically, Romero zombies have zero science to back up why they act they way they do, like a said before, he just made shit up to fit his vision and now fans are running with that vision believing it's an accurate representation of how the dead would behave and move if they were to come back to life. Sure he just made up a bunch of stuff but they do fit in to a sort of biological logic that makes real-world sense. Their muscles are rotting and their brains are starved of oxygen so they lack balance and coordination and combined with muscle tissue wasting away, movement is always going to be a struggle. The problem I think the hardcore fans have with runners or spidey-style wall crawlers (for example), is that there's just no logic to them being able to perform such feats beyond 'it's a mystery virus' sort of thing, and as soon as you try to explain it, it can get very messy very quickly. The real beauty of the Romero archetype is their simplicity, there's no fancy gimmicks going on, to quote Dr Logan: “They're us – simply functioning less-perfectly”, it's simple and effective. Everything else is just reinventing the wheel and makes them less believable, which in turn dilutes the horror – or to put it another way, when I'm swimming around in the ocean I'm not worried about Deep Blue Sea, I am worried about Jaws!

[Yojimbo]

those stories are less anecdotal than you would think. your brain is capable of making you do just about whatever it wants. there are stress hormones can that triple your strength for a short time by flooding your cells with oxygen and glucose. since i've been through the whole PTSD thing, i understand stress reactions pretty well. first thing your brain does in a flight or flight situation is shut off all non-essential systems. digestion and the urinary systems are shut down entirely and the blood and oxygen they use are redirected to your muscles and brain. the next thing your brain does is shut off the logic and reasoning part of your brain. thinking can get you killed and your brain doesn't want that, so it turns your decision making ability off and it starts making decisions for you. then it decides to either run or fight. you have no control over whether to stay or flee. none. if it decides to stay it will punch a few buttons and you'll be like chuck fucking norris in a really bad fucking mood. the professor knows what i mean. i was in somalia and he was over in the sandbox. if your brain hits that magic button that mixes testosterone, epinephrine, norepinephrine, and two hormones called orexin and leptin (leptin vastly increases your metabolism and orexin increases strength and alertness)- watch the fuck out. that's the werewolf juice that makes the world appear like it is slow motion while you are moving like the ginsu man. your slicing, dicing, chopping and cutting through the can all in one smooth motion. First, I would like to again thank you for your honorable service to our county. It is because of the efforts of folks like you and other veterans that my family is kept safe from harm, and I want you to know that you and other veterans are all heroes as far as I am concerned. I have no doubt that there is indeed a boost of strength and a sharpening of reactions during times of heavy stress. What you wrote makes a lot of sense, and given the circumstances of your deployment I would hazard to guess that these components - adrenaline, testosterone, et al - were important in keeping you alive and giving you the ability to survive in a horrendously stressful situation. Please let me clarify that what I was referring to was specifically this story about a woman - sometimes she is the mother, sometimes a grandmother- lifting a car, which is sometimes a VW bug (as the story was when I was a kid during the 70's) and sometimes a larger vehicle (as I have heard recently) when a child was pinned under it. I have heard so many variations of this story throughout the years that I wonder if it is more myth than fact. But you raise a good point, that given the stress of a situation that it is quite possible that this story - regardless of it's many variations - could very well be true. It is just that I have yet to see a legitimate source which verifies that this specific situation, often retold and reinterpeted, acutally ever happened. -- -------- Post added at 12:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:12 PM ---------- An electrical current applied to a dead frogs leg can get that sucker moving pretty fast which would be an argument for dead doesn't automatically mean slow...My big beef is the fanboys who shit on everything that isn't 100% Romero. The dude made 3 fun movies and 3 crap movies. Zombie actually has a fairly broad interpretation from a reanimated dead body to a living body that is brain dead. Time to move on from the past and breath some life into a dead genre. A frog has quite a less complex system than does a human. Nevertheless, I understand your point. All the same, please understand that not all of the folks whom you refer to as fanboys shit on things that are not 100% Romero. There are a number of non-romero rule following films that many of the fans embrace. I understand that you do not like Romero's later films - some of which the "fanboys" also do not like. You are most certainly entitled to think of zombies by your own rules, and free to feel that life needs to be given to this "dead" genre. I am not saying that Romero's vision is accurate, however I do agree with the following post: -- -------- Post added at 12:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:19 PM ---------- Sure he just made up a bunch of stuff but they do fit in to a sort of biological logic that makes real-world sense. Their muscles are rotting and their brains are starved of oxygen so they lack balance and coordination and combined with muscle tissue wasting away, movement is always going to be a struggle. The problem I think the hardcore fans have with runners or spidey-style wall crawlers (for example), is that there's just no logic to them being able to perform such feats beyond 'it's a mystery virus' sort of thing, and as soon as you try to explain it, it can get very messy very quickly. The real beauty of the Romero archetype is their simplicity, there's no fancy gimmicks going on, to quote Dr Logan: “They're us – simply functioning less-perfectly”, it's simple and effective. Everything else is just reinventing the wheel and makes them less believable, which in turn dilutes the horror – or to put it another way, when I'm swimming around in the ocean I'm not worried about Deep Blue Sea, I am worried about Jaws! Well said, Rancid! I am in agreement and this articulates the problem that I have with sprinting, superhuman zombies.

[Christopher Jon]

Well said, Rancid! I am in agreement and this articulates the problem that I have with sprinting, superhuman zombies. It's a silly argument anyway. Might as well be debating blondes or redheads. BTW, I'm a fanboy myself so I'm not using the term as a derogatory insult. Anybody who steps into a zombie forum has some dork flowing through their veins. AS for the OP's question: Man, you're watching too many movies. This shit ain't real. Even a rage virus which is the only semi-realistic scenario. Go the walmart, buy 50 cans of tuna, a couple gallons of water, lock your doors, don't go outside, wait a couple of weeks until the infected are all dead from dehydration. You don't need 7,000 rounds of 5.56 and a bug-out shelter to survive the apocalypse.

[Mike70]

Please let me clarify that what I was referring to was specifically this story about a woman - sometimes she is the mother, sometimes a grandmother- lifting a car, which is sometimes a VW bug (as the story was when I was a kid during the 70's) and sometimes a larger vehicle (as I have heard recently) when a child was pinned under it. I have heard so many variations of this story throughout the years that I wonder if it is more myth than fact. But you raise a good point, that given the stress of a situation that it is quite possible that this story - regardless of it's many variations - could very well be true. It is just that I have yet to see a legitimate source which verifies that this specific situation, often retold and reinterpeted, acutally ever happened.[COLOR="Silver"] yeah jimbo you hear these stories a lot but they are like 75th hand usually. here is a video of man lifting a 2,000 pound helicopter after a crash to save the life of his friend trapped underneath it. yeah, this guy is a big boy but a ton is lot to lift.

[Yojimbo]

It's a silly argument anyway. Might as well be debating blondes or redheads. Personally I would argue "brunettes"- content of your post appreciated brother!

[Cykotic]

realistically, I have more chance of going 12 for 12 with playboy calendar models... would i like a zombie apocalypse to happen though? oh f*** yes!

[Yojimbo]

yeah jimbo you hear these stories a lot but they are like 75th hand usually. here is a video of man lifting a 2,000 pound helicopter after a crash to save the life of his friend trapped underneath it. yeah, this guy is a big boy but a ton is lot to lift. Yeah, no doubt humans are capable of heroic feats of strength when the moment calls for it- Thanks brother!