Stephen Hawkins: Heaven is a fairy story...

[Neil]

Have to agree I'm afraid! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/s...-the-dark.html

[Rottedfreak]

I'm a Atheist and while i think there's enough reason to believe the universe could be naturally formed and doubt the holy books and their claims of 'the written/dictated word of god' and 'divine truth' there's still the possibility there may a afterlife.

[Danny]

i saw "heaven is-" on the frontpage. i breathed a sigh of relief that the ending was not "a halfpipe" and it was a cover song...

[blind2d]

Hmm... Where's that meme I made of the Jesus picture where he's coming out of the tomb and... Never mind. Anyway, Heaven is an empty backyard pool. Or a place where nothing ever happens. Either way, most people wouldn't like it.

[AcesandEights]

Now that's a fairytale I'd like to wake up to, but yeah...not likely, at least not in any universal and literal sense of the definition.

[Danny]

Now that's a fairytale I'd like to wake up to, but yeah...not likely, at least not in any universal and literal sense of the definition.

[JDFP]

Yawn. Been here and argued this to death. Atheists will believe what they want and we Theists will believe what we want, no Richard Dawkins or C.S. Lewis is going to change anyone's mind on the matter. I always find it amusing when educated Atheists who are above 'such superstitious belief' then speak about religion as if they have a 3rd grade education (which most seem to do) regarding religion. j.p.

[Danny]

I always find it amusing when educated Atheists who are above 'such superstitious belief' then speak about religion as if they have a 3rd grade education (which most seem to do) regarding religion. j.p. well to be fair thats an apt description. at last from a scientific point of view. man naturally fears his death as much as they fear the dark. Because we consider it, if you are spiritual, as a great unknown akin to the caveman standing on the edge of his fire staring out into the dark wondering what might be out there, and some choose to believe without proof -which i suppose is the point of faith- that there is a perfect world that waits them after. from a logical standpoint thats a natural reaction to our deaths when we have reached a point as a lifeform that we comprehend the true finality of it. calling it a fairy tail is an apt description if you dont believe in it. its a fable, something to calm the mind and comfort the soul so to speak. it's not meant as some patronising denigration its a cold description of a belief that for someone who has no religious bone in their body is specifically drummed up as part of a coping mechanism for what a spiritual person would consider a great unknown that i'm sure is a worry that keeps many religious folks awake at night 'what if its not real?' because lets be honest. had christianity never existed do you think religious people would not believe in an afterlife? i am absolutely sure they would. Some people need that kind of comforting thoughts it keeps them going. though if you think about it from an cold logical point of view i suppose you would have had to have had religion before our species considered life after death as a possibility. i'm sure many a caveman asked 'if man in the sky made us why does he let us die?' what answer could you give to that other than 'dont worry, you obey his rules and live right there is a life better than this one'?

[Neil]

because lets be honest. had christianity never existed do you think religious people would not believe in an afterlife? i am absolutely sure they would. Some people need that kind of comforting thoughts it keeps them going. though if you think about it from an cold logical point of view i suppose you would have had to have had religion before our species considered life after death as a possibility. i'm sure many a caveman asked 'if man in the sky made us why does he let us die?' what answer could you give to that other than 'dont worry, you obey his rules and live right there is a life better than this one'? Most civilisations/cultures have found some reason to assume their own self importance in the universe, and find some reason why they shouldn't just fade into dust at death... This was propped up initially by a lack of understanding of nature and the events around them, but now?

[JDFP]

well to be fair thats an apt description. at last from a scientific point of view. man naturally fears his death as much as they fear the dark. Because we consider it, if you are spiritual, as a great unknown akin to the caveman standing on the edge of his fire staring out into the dark wondering what might be out there, and some choose to believe without proof -which i suppose is the point of faith- that there is a perfect world that waits them after. from a logical standpoint thats a natural reaction to our deaths when we have reached a point as a lifeform that we comprehend the true finality of it. calling it a fairy tail is an apt description if you dont believe in it. its a fable, something to calm the mind and comfort the soul so to speak. it's not meant as some patronising denigration its a cold description of a belief that for someone who has no religious bone in their body is specifically drummed up as part of a coping mechanism for what a spiritual person would consider a great unknown that i'm sure is a worry that keeps many religious folks awake at night 'what if its not real?' because lets be honest. had christianity never existed do you think religious people would not believe in an afterlife? i am absolutely sure they would. Some people need that kind of comforting thoughts it keeps them going. though if you think about it from an cold logical point of view i suppose you would have had to have had religion before our species considered life after death as a possibility. i'm sure many a caveman asked 'if man in the sky made us why does he let us die?' what answer could you give to that other than 'dont worry, you obey his rules and live right there is a life better than this one'? This is a good post, Hellsing. I'd say plenty of people who either choose to believe or not believe consider the question as to whether "Is there an afterlife or not?" and what said afterlife may or may not be like. I don't consider my personal faith to be based on "no proof" as Atheists tend to believe, rather it's just a matter of the proof of my faith that I accept (the resurrection of Christ, the apparitions of the Blessed Mother at Fatima, etc. etc.) an Atheist would conclude is not proof but rather fallacy (i.e. 'your proof really isn't proof because as an atheist I don't accept your proof by my scientifically empirical standards'). I think as an educated Christian one would conclude that it just doesn't really matter if there is or isn't an afterlife. It's really, as it should be, a moot point to at least Christians. It's not about what happens to an individual's soul in any potential 'afterlife' or not as opposed to how the soul is changed in this world through a relationship with God. I don't ever really consider any potential afterlife or not -- it just doesn't matter to me so much. Unfortunately, there are just as many uneducated Theists as there are Atheists who see their religious ideology as being on a third grade level as well who don't come to this realization/conclusion. j.p.

[Danny]

This is a good post, Hellsing. I'd say plenty of people who either choose to believe or not believe consider the question as to whether "Is there an afterlife or not?" and what said afterlife may or may not be like. I don't consider my personal faith to be based on "no proof" as Atheists tend to believe, rather it's just a matter of the proof of my faith that I accept (the resurrection of Christ, the apparitions of the Blessed Mother at Fatima, etc. etc.) an Atheist would conclude is not proof but rather fallacy (i.e. 'your proof really isn't proof because as an atheist I don't accept your proof by my scientifically empirical standards'). I think as an educated Christian one would conclude that it just doesn't really matter if there is or isn't an afterlife. It's really, as it should be, a moot point to at least Christians. It's not about what happens to an individual's soul in any potential 'afterlife' or not as opposed to how the soul is changed in this world through a relationship with God. I don't ever really consider any potential afterlife or not -- it just doesn't matter to me so much. Unfortunately, there are just as many uneducated Theists as there are Atheists who see their religious ideology as being on a third grad level as well who don't come to this realization/conclusion. j.p. At the end of the day i always think it doesn't matter. Sure i'll argue why ghosts are bollocks till im blue in the face but doe's one individuals belief on what happens to them when they die have any relevance to anyone but them? i don't think so. -that said i've always considered religion- or lack of is a deeply personal thing and certain points of it like the afterlife are really just between you, yourself and maybe a man upstairs if you think one is their.

[blind2d]

Plus, like, we're all going to Hell, anyway, so... No, that's not fair, I'm sure it's not true... I'm going to Hell, at least.

[JDFP]

Who needs to go to Hell when you can experience it here on earth? j.p.

[Mr. Clean]

More room for me

[wayzim]

Yawn. Been here and argued this to death. Atheists will believe what they want and we Theists will believe what we want, no Richard Dawkins or C.S. Lewis is going to change anyone's mind on the matter. I always find it amusing when educated Atheists who are above 'such superstitious belief' then speak about religion as if they have a 3rd grade education (which most seem to do) regarding religion. j.p. That's a fair assessment, since like any spokemen for any view point, we seem to pick the nutters. There was a good arguement against science and other alleged logic minded disciplines chasing ghosts or God. This, years ago in 'The Skeptical Inquirer ( as well as some excellent books by James (The Amazing Randi ) Simply stated; You can't prove a negative. You can, however, build a statistical formula to show the likelyhood of something approaching Nil, but it seems a waste of Time to me. What's revealled - will be, at the proper moment. Most comments otherwise tends to make both partys look abit immature. Wayne Z " That was Easy. " declared Man, who then went on to prove that 'Black.' was indeed 'White.' and shortly after was killed at the next Zebra Crossing. " Douglas Adams, HitchHiker's Guide to The Universe.