Ok, I really love this show. But...

[shootemindehead]

I can agree with this summation. Hopefully they will up their game in the next season, but I have a feeling we will see a lot of composite storylines, which would be okay by me if they craft a taut script, but I expect uneven scripting and direction, per the 1st season. I expect, however that it'll still be miles ahead of any zombie movie I've seen lately. Yeh, we share suspicions Aces. Agree with you about being one of the better zombie efforts as well. ---------- Post added at 10:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 AM ---------- No mention of horror or zombies, so you are good to go. Phew, thank Christ for that Moon! I'm printing that out and it's going on the wall.

[BillyRay]

Phew, thank Christ for that Moon! I'm printing that out and it's going on the wall. You should know this stuff instinctively, Shootem. Some Geek YOU are...

[kidgloves]

Um...I don't really buy this concept to be honest. No offence Kid. First of all the Kirkman story is miles ahead of what has been written so far in the TV show and the comic characters have been much better than some of the cliches on offer from the screenwriters. Also, 'Game of Thrones' seems to be following the books to a very tight degree and that hasn't put fans off in any way. My creepy Sci-Fi Fantasy buddies LOVE it! Normal people...er...like me love it too! Personally speaking, I would have prefered if the producers had stuck closer to Kirkman's excellent original. The odd deviation is perfectly fine and even new or composite characters are ok (provded they are well written), but the TV show is almost a completely different story. I understand completely the restraints of having to turn in a (hopefully) hit show in just 6 episodes, but I still think that the TV show (while good and I do like it) is greatly weaker than the comic. Well, so far anyway. Which, I accept, maybe a little harsh giving it's very short first run. None taken. I suppose what im referring to is the plot twists. For example the reveal at Herschels farm that no doubt is coming up in the 2nd season. Having read the comic, it will have far less impact for me. It will be nowhere near as shocking and for me that takes a lot out of my enjoyment. Seeing a live action version of the comic is not what im looking for from the tv series. Darabont keeps referring to the zombie sandbox and how he will be playing around in it and that is a good way of terming what i would like the show to be. Not so much different storylines but different subplots and expansions of certain scenes like Morgan and Dwayne. On the other hand you get episodes like Kirkmans Vatos which i thought was terrible bar the last 10 mins. Peter Jacksons Lord of the Rings is a good example where changes had to be made, scenes moved around and lines given to different characters. This may upset people but i don't think that Michonnes character in the comic will translate very well to live action without coming over cheesy and over the top. Yeah, it may be cool in the comic but on tv?

[shootemindehead]

You should know this stuff instinctively, Shootem. Some Geek YOU are... Can I be a nerd then? ---------- Post added at 08:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:48 PM ---------- None taken. I suppose what im referring to is the plot twists. For example the reveal at Herschels farm that no doubt is coming up in the 2nd season. Having read the comic, it will have far less impact for me. It will be nowhere near as shocking and for me that takes a lot out of my enjoyment. Seeing a live action version of the comic is not what im looking for from the tv series. Darabont keeps referring to the zombie sandbox and how he will be playing around in it and that is a good way of terming what i would like the show to be. Not so much different storylines but different subplots and expansions of certain scenes like Morgan and Dwayne. On the other hand you get episodes like Kirkmans Vatos which i thought was terrible bar the last 10 mins. Peter Jacksons Lord of the Rings is a good example where changes had to be made, scenes moved around and lines given to different characters. This may upset people but i don't think that Michonnes character in the comic will translate very well to live action without coming over cheesy and over the top. Yeah, it may be cool in the comic but on tv? I probably agree more than I disagree. Of course, if we had a simple live action version of the comic, including everything from the comic, then that could be a downer for some when the "reveals" are made known. But, my major problem withe the TV show is that it's SO different to the comic, it might as well be called something else entirely. But, in fairness, Series 2 may not reflect that. My main bitching about the show is that there was some really poor writing, some rubbish (do nothing) characters introduced and it seems to be going off on a tangent that I don't want it to go on. So far, it's been AMC's 'The Walking Dead: But it isn't really' I'd like the producers to get back on the path. You mention 'Lord of the Rings', well, for a film, that was remarkable faithful to the book. It was 'Lord of the Rings'. I had no problems with Jackson's cuts and additions there. But, so far, 'The Walking Dead' has been 70% different to it's source material and the more it strys from Kirkman's story, the more chance you'll end up with episodes like 'Vatos', or crap characters like "Southern Racist Stereotype No. 427", "Fat Black Homie Guy" and "Make up the Numbers and Die in the end Black Girl".

[MoonSylver]

You should know this stuff instinctively, Shootem. Some Geek YOU are... Can I be a nerd then? But, my major problem withe the TV show is that it's SO different to the comic, it might as well be called something else entirely... But, so far, 'The Walking Dead' has been 70% different to it's source material " Difference of opinion I suppose, but I don't really find it to be THAT different AT ITS CORE. 80% faithful + 20% added material maybe? *Meh*

[MissJacksonCA]

I love my Walking Dead comics... still remember the first time I heard about them from someone on this forum and walking out and immediately buying them up and similarly I remember when I heard they were making a TWD TV show and thinking wow its going to be awesome and how I hoped they would follow the GN's but really... the freedoms they've taken with the orig. story is one that bears a strong enough similarity to it to not betray the integrity of the characters or the story while providing us with new fodder and intriguing situations that are fresh and really the only word I can use is delightful. In hindsight I'd have been angered by something that was exactly the same as the comics because nothing would be new... it would be like the movie you vision in your mind as you're reading a book and you can see all the scenes play out. What they've developed through the series is new and tingly and pretty great. Sometimes I think they go a bit too far delving into the relationship between Rick and his wife and it drives me a bit crazy because I think she's nutzo and selfish and frankly I'm not watching the Walking Dead so I can see a marriage stand the test of the end of the world I'm watching it because I love horror but hey... To me ...its like when they remade the Omen... it was EXACTLY the same... and therefore sucked... you know what's coming and its predictable... we may have a sense from the books of what's coming in the show but its just a sense because in the show you just don't know...

[babomb]

I've read alot of the comics. I don't really understand exactly why it would be better if the show was exactly like the comic. Everyone has a different perspective, I understand that. Go back and read Vol.1 again though. There just isn't enough substance there for a TV show. The audience for comic books is alot different than the audience for TV shows. You have higher expectations for TV shows. The series is also not made to cater to fans of the comic. There's not enough fans of the comic to justify the production of a TV show for such a small demographic. Same goes for fans of the zombie/horror genre. For this show to be made there had to be promise of appeal to a MUCH wider audience. Kirkman produced the comic for people like us here. But AMC is not in the business of making horror films, they're a television network, and their business is all about ratings. The producers of TWD have no obligation to "stay on path" with the comics, and they aren't the ones responsible for the changes. They answer to the network in the long run. And the network wants as many viewers as possible in order to maximize profits. Which means the network has it's own ideas about the direction the series goes in. AMC and other networks don't just give the writers and the producers free reign over the whole process. They demand the most return on their investments. So they have certain stipulations that are negotiated long before cameras start rolling. They want non horror/zombie fans to watch this show every week. That means drama. Just like "Breaking Bad" wasn't made specifically for drug dealers and meth-heads, TWD isn't made specifically for fans of the comic. The comic book serves as more of a storyboard for the series than the definitive source material. So ultimately the changes made to the series are a non-issue because they're necessary in order for the show to have a channel that we can watch it on.

[Ragnarr]

I guess it's like when my gf and I went to see the LotR flicks. She is a big Tolkien geek, and the changes Jackson made in the films had her spilling gummie bears and popcorn on the row in front of us. Even though, she still found aspects of the flicks enjoyable. So for those of you who have already read the comic, if you're careful with your gummie bears and popcorn, I think you'll enjoy TWD in general too.

[Danny]

You aint alone, thats why i dropped the show. I still watch clips now and again because anything thats ongoing can get better as easily as it gets worse but i fucking HATED the first season of the walking dead. The pilot? brilliant stuff. cheesy, but brilliant. the wife trying the doornob? that shit wasnt in the books but it was gold. Then they went into the trope folder and started fishing for plot points. The whole thing about the shopping store, and the guy on the roof? that was just fucking terrible writing and the fact that they out and out said 'oh yeah, no, its certainly a virus, here, have a powerpoint presentation of us out and out explaining away the mystery of it' in the finale like some bullshit wizard of oz deus ex machina. Of course im still open to 'maybe it gets better'. However ive been reading the comics since the very start and i think they have wasted some opportunities and just outright wasted time on others when adapting a much stronger source material than the product we see on screen. Still, there are folks who dont read the comics who dont know how much better this story can be who are going 'wow!, finally good zombie content!" and they are right i suppose. However the source material is just so much better than at least the first season of this that i watched. Still, stargate universe got way better in its 2nd season so i probably will check it out when the seasons complete- or mid seasonish, but no you arent the only one preferring the comics. It keeps the mystery, its much more bleak and hopeless in tone and kept you reading for that. Though if im honest, since the show started the writing in the comics HAS started to slip a little, maybe theres some kinda leaning more to the show now? like i said ill check it out when theres a sizeable chunk of episodes to dig into.

[bassman]

the fact that they out and out said 'oh yeah, no, its certainly a virus, here, have a powerpoint presentation of us out and out explaining away the mystery of it' in the finale like some bullshit wizard of oz deus ex machina. Did you and I see the same episode? The doctor said he didn't know what caused it. Even to the point of acknowledging it could be the wrath of God.... As for it not following the comics, it's actually following it very closely this season. With the exception of a few things like Shane being around, the story of Hershel's farm is damn close to the comics. Any liberties they take with the story actually make it a more enjoyable watch to me, anyway. If they copied every bit of the comics it would be a bit boring. So far they've done a good job of telling the basic story of the comics while throwing in twists to keep it interesting.

[Danny]

Did you and I see the same episode? The doctor said he didn't know what caused it. Even to the point of acknowledging it could be the wrath of God.... yeah, see, the fact that they go into it being a virus is already showing too much of their hand for my liking. thats the difference between romeros flicks and most imitators. He intimates things like 'maybe you die of an infection from being bitten by a corpse' but its never clear what in any capacity causes the dead to walk. The walking dead in its first season pretty much went 'oh yeah, we read the zombie survival guide too and thought solunum was a good idea'. they now only have 3 possible options. 1: man made, either some generic military black ops thing that leaked like captain trips or the usual 'terrorist' plot hole polyfiller. 2: god did it ala lost or battlestar galactica. 3: "an act of nature we will never truly understand" the third however i doubt very much. Since they already started explaining its a foreign agent that jerry rigs the brain and the corpse like a cheap hotwired car. If they can reveal that much of the mystery in the first season i dont have hoes for later, hence why it made me drop the show. They were willing to give up in the first season something romero and the comic the walking dead in 6 films and90+ issues respectively never revealed. This has two conclusions. They either already plan to reveal it. Or they are writing themselves into a corner, and i don't care for either option.

[JDFP]

I guess I just attribute it to people acting realistically in many ways. If I was living only a few miles from the CDC my first reaction would be after this type of thing - "Hey, we need to try and make it to the CDC and figure out if someone knows something!" - it would be, honestly, a bit unrealistic and silly if people did not think this in this type of situation who were that close to it. My next goal would be to aim forward either Fort Benning or Robins Air Force Base (whichever one is closer0 which is what the characters are doing here until they were sidetracked by Herschel - and again I find that to be realistic given the circumstances of the show. Go where there may be safety and the military to protect you and where people "might have shit figured out". I haven't read the comics but I just don't really care for comics. Nothing against them - just not my cup of coffee. Personally, where I'd like to see the show head is for them to get back on the road as soon as possible and have them reach Fort Benning and/or Robins Air Force Base to see what's there, if anything is still left, and to see what the military is up to (other than fire-bombing major cities). I don't buy that the entire system has completely collapsed. j.p.

[Danny]

I guess I just attribute it to people acting realistically in many ways. If I was living only a few miles from the CDC my first reaction would be after this type of thing - "Hey, we need to try and make it to the CDC and figure out if someone knows something!" - it would be, honestly, a bit unrealistic and silly if people did not think this in this type of situation who were that close to it. why? If you didnt have dozens of zombie films with the cliche 'once youve been bitten, you are infected!' schitk what sane person in a world where the dead are walking and killing human beings would a rational mind go 'oh its a virus'? if you had never seen a zombie film and the dead walked, after you freaked out about this very fact, why would you assume a virus is even capable of this on any level? again thats my problem, the presumption and explaining. They are backing themselves into a niche by revealing any mystery. In the comics all you know from issue 1 to issue 90 is "the dead get up and try to kill you, shoot them in the head' why? how? its never touched on at all. It just seems to be relying on the viewer and their thought process and as such fails at world building. Its like what i said about the zombie diaries. that movie failed because it didnt break the romero mould, it was created following the rules of another universe'. The people in the walking dead do what we, the viewer, expect them to. Not what the character would do like they do in the comics. Do you get what i mean? its like the opposite of dumb teens in a slasher film. they say 'ill be right back' and we go "oh yeah, they die next" because we know 'the rules', we view it from the god perspective outside its universe and rules. In the walking dead its the opposite but no better. We expect them to go to the cdc 'because its a virus' and the characters do. Why? What is the characters motivation for this other than 'we need a narrative function to point out this is a virus'. Ask yourself. If the dead walked tomorrow, is your first thought a virus? hell id accept the devil or a mutant cordycepts fungus before the magic 'wizard did it' response.

[JDFP]

Ask yourself. If the dead walked tomorrow, is your first thought a virus? hell id accept the devil or a mutant cordycepts fungus before the magic 'wizard did it' response. Probably, yes. Either virus or man-made pathogen (viral warfare). Why? Because it makes the most logical sense. The dead just don't get up and walk. I'd be more apt to accept it's some viral agent as opposed to: "God is mad at us all so zombies are walking the earth." You can't just jump to conclusions like that. I can understand that in a world where Romero and zombie films don't exist such as TWD you're not going to be as prepared for what is going on - but would you automatically think: "God did it!" without any other logical explanation? My first reaction to something like this would be some type of virus - and I think it would be for MOST logical people given a situation such as this. If all other logical explanations don't work then you can then jump to conclusions ("God of the gaps" as theologians call it) but I think most normal people would consider rational explanations for things first no matter how crazy something happening may be. Plus, you have to consider proximity. They are only literal MILES away from the CDC in Atlanta. You don't think it's reasonable to go somewhere where someone might have some type of answers? I don't understand that. j.p

[Danny]

Probably, yes. Either virus or man-made pathogen (viral warfare). Why? Because it makes the most logical sense. The dead just don't get up and walk. I'd be more apt to accept it's some viral agent as opposed to: "God is mad at us all so zombies are walking the earth." You can't just jump to conclusions like that. I can understand that in a world where Romero and zombie films don't exist such as TWD you're not going to be as prepared for what is going on - but would you automatically think: "God did it!" without any other logical explanation? My first reaction to something like this would be some type of virus - and I think it would be for MOST logical people given a situation such as this. If all other logical explanations don't work then you can then jump to conclusions ("God of the gaps" as theologians call it) but I think most normal people would consider rational explanations for things first no matter how crazy something happening may be. Plus, you have to consider proximity. They are only literal MILES away from the CDC in Atlanta. You don't think it's reasonable to go somewhere where someone might have some type of answers? I don't understand that. j.p because even in the universe of the story there is no precedent for a virus causing it and still none of them have any idea if thats the case. the writers of the show add nudges to push them that way specifically. Might they have thought of it? perhaps. But this is not a story of 'rick finding out what caused it and saving the world' robert kirkman started the walking dead with one idea and one goal he himself set out in his introduction to the series: "Whilst the scientists and soldiers are all in that bunker from day of the dead trying to save the world the walking dead is the story of the poor bastards who just try to survive whilst the main characters do that" How is going to the cdc after its clearly been abandoned every going to help them survive? They have no idea what is happening. they are two cops and some random civilians. Are they expecting some vaccine with a genetics and virology for dummies guide on how to save themselves? Thats what i dont like, not that its a virus. That it so clearly goes against the ethos of the walking deads sole idea as a story. It is a story where the dead walk now. dont know why, how or when if ever they will stop. but that is the world rick lives in now. watch them deal with it. badly. Only thats not the tv show. the tv show already shows what causes the bodys to move. so either they reveal what the source of that is or dont and then what was the point of that to begin with? a season finale to establish the 'if you are bitten you are dead' rule? comics did that just fine without the cdc. Thats why i didnt like it. it was pointless, and inferior to the end of the comics first volume that was literally ending on a whimper rather than a bang but it was so much more effective, so much more human and so much less spectacular. and that at the end of the day is the walking dead. what i saw in that finale was not. Hence why i did not like it compared to the comic.